Moving from belief in God, to belief in Jesus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I mean I believe in God, intuitively, and I feel drawn to a Christian church. But being a Christian requires believing written stories about someone from 2000 years ago. How to get there, is my question.

In the more-progressive denominations, being Christian is about wanting to following the teachings of Jesus, whether or not you believe that he was literally the Son of God, immaculately conceived, and resurrected from death.

I don't think this is true. What denominations are these?

If you do not accept Jesus' resurrection, you are not Christian. Full stop. This is different than having some doubts. You can be a perfectly good, ethical person if you don't believe, but you are not Christian.

Episcopalian, Presbyterian USA, United Church of Christ, some United Methodists. SOme of these will say they accept the resurrection - as a metaphor for rebirth. What's wrong with that? THese are modern people living in a modern society. WHy should they have to beieve in magic to lead cHristian lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

It does seema bit problematic though, that grown adults who passed high school biology and who can write coherently think it's OK to believe in magic and to teach their children that it's OK or even required - and to become offended or belligerent when anyone dares to disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

If Christians tell people about Jesus, you tell us not to scare people. And then you blame God that people don't hear about Jesus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

If Christians tell people about Jesus, you tell us not to scare people. And then you blame God that people don't hear about Jesus?

Are you suggesting that humans are more powerful than god?

Also, telling people about Jesus if not the same as threatening people about what happens if they don't believe in him. Many non-Christians learn about Jesus and other religious and historical figures without being told how they must feel about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

If Christians tell people about Jesus, you tell us not to scare people. And then you blame God that people don't hear about Jesus?

Are you suggesting that humans are more powerful than god?

Also, telling people about Jesus if not the same as threatening people about what happens if they don't believe in him. Many non-Christians learn about Jesus and other religious and historical figures without being told how they must feel about them.

No, I'm not, but Christians are told in the Bible to share the Gospel. Jesus Himself told us to do that in Matthew 28. Paul wrote about it in Romans 10. Just to name two. And you can't properly talk about Jesus without talking about Hell, which is what He came to save us from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

God does love us. That's why he sent Christ to die for us, and why He gave us the Bible. It's there for people to read, but so many discount it. How is this evidence that God only "supposedly" loves us?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

If Christians tell people about Jesus, you tell us not to scare people. And then you blame God that people don't hear about Jesus?

Are you suggesting that humans are more powerful than god?

Also, telling people about Jesus if not the same as threatening people about what happens if they don't believe in him. Many non-Christians learn about Jesus and other religious and historical figures without being told how they must feel about them.

No, I'm not, but Christians are told in the Bible to share the Gospel. Jesus Himself told us to do that in Matthew 28. Paul wrote about it in Romans 10. Just to name two. And you can't properly talk about Jesus without talking about Hell, which is what He came to save us from.

Yet scholars talk about Jesus and figures from other religions without teaching people that they will be punished for not believing in them. There's a difference between teaching, and threatening and proseltizing, which it seems many CHristians do not understand.

This Hell, which the Bible says Jesus came to save us from, simply doesn't exist for many people and the only way children hear about it is from adults who use it to threaten children -- believe or burn.

I know a lot of liberal Christian denominations don't push this kind of thinking -- more power to them -- but it's still there in the teachings, and still actively pushed by people who consider themselves to be better Christians, because they are more Bible-believing. The fact that it frightens children and offends some adults doesn't matter, because they think they are doing what God wants and helping their own entry into heaven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

God does love us. That's why he sent Christ to die for us, and why He gave us the Bible. It's there for people to read, but so many discount it. How is this evidence that God only "supposedly" loves us?

Organized religion, with a whole set of beliefs and rules and restrictions, is not innate - it has to be learned. It seems that a "loving" god would make his love for us, and the one story that tells it, innate to all his children, instead of making it into a test that eternally condemns those who never hear about it or can't bring themselves to believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Organized religion, with a whole set of beliefs and rules and restrictions, is not innate - it has to be learned. It seems that a "loving" god would make his love for us, and the one story that tells it, innate to all his children, instead of making it into a test that eternally condemns those who never hear about it or can't bring themselves to believe it.

[b]

NP. You just can't get over this point, can you? You bring it up on every thread. Let's skip what always follows: some Christian posts to say there are many paths to God as long as behavior itself is Christ-like, and then the resident fundamentalist pipes up to say that's all wrong and non-believers are indeed going to hell. We've all been through this dynamic many times and it's derailed a gazillion threads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

You can take your premise as far as you want, it's basically a variant of "if God is good why is there evil in the world?" People far more intelligent than anyone on this forum have written and debated this issue extensively, and if you are interested in that topic, you should probably learn more about it before you try to debate, so that you can make more salient points.

I have never really met anyone that walks around threatening other people with hell, so... I don't really know what you are talking about. I would certainly discourage that behavior in a civilized society. I have to tell you, I go to church every Sunday and I cannot remember a discussion of hell. The point of Christianity is not avoiding hell. I'm sure you have come across people who had an unhealthy fixation with Hell, but that's your experience. And I find people who are fixated on something like hell generally have other issues they need to work through, and if they weren't obsessed with hell it would be some other thing. The point of Christianity is to love Jesus and become like him. The logistics after that point are unknown.

You don't want religion in your life. That's FINE. But you also don't know very much about Christianity, so why debate it? Learn about the thing you are against, and then come and debate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Organized religion, with a whole set of beliefs and rules and restrictions, is not innate - it has to be learned. It seems that a "loving" god would make his love for us, and the one story that tells it, innate to all his children, instead of making it into a test that eternally condemns those who never hear about it or can't bring themselves to believe it.

[b]

NP. You just can't get over this point, can you? You bring it up on every thread. Let's skip what always follows: some Christian posts to say there are many paths to God as long as behavior itself is Christ-like, and then the resident fundamentalist pipes up to say that's all wrong and non-believers are indeed going to hell. We've all been through this dynamic many times and it's derailed a gazillion threads.

it's hardly derailing to discuss various beliefs on a forum about religion. Simply by saying paths to God go through Christ is implying Christianity is the only path that leads to good behavior, which excludes many other people who believe in God who are not Christian. It also realates pretty well to OP's question, which initially shocked some readers who didn't understand the concept of progression from God to Jesus.

Finally, PP did not "skip what always follows" and instead posted it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

You can take your premise as far as you want, it's basically a variant of "if God is good why is there evil in the world?" People far more intelligent than anyone on this forum have written and debated this issue extensively, and if you are interested in that topic, you should probably learn more about it before you try to debate, so that you can make more salient points.

I have never really met anyone that walks around threatening other people with hell, so... I don't really know what you are talking about. I would certainly discourage that behavior in a civilized society. I have to tell you, I go to church every Sunday and I cannot remember a discussion of hell. The point of Christianity is not avoiding hell. I'm sure you have come across people who had an unhealthy fixation with Hell, but that's your experience. And I find people who are fixated on something like hell generally have other issues they need to work through, and if they weren't obsessed with hell it would be some other thing. The point of Christianity is to love Jesus and become like him. The logistics after that point are unknown.

You don't want religion in your life. That's FINE. But you also don't know very much about Christianity, so why debate it? Learn about the thing you are against, and then come and debate.

Frankly, you sound like someone who doesn't know much about Christianity. Your denomination may not focus much on hell -- that's great -- but hell and the need for salvation and proselytizing is a integral part of Christianity that affects huge numbers of Christians. It isn't just about loving Jesus. Good for you if you're part of a watered down church. I hope you don't write off your brother and sister Christians who follow the Bible and CHristian dogma more closely than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

If Christians tell people about Jesus, you tell us not to scare people. And then you blame God that people don't hear about Jesus?

Are you suggesting that humans are more powerful than god?

Also, telling people about Jesus if not the same as threatening people about what happens if they don't believe in him. Many non-Christians learn about Jesus and other religious and historical figures without being told how they must feel about them.

No, I'm not, but Christians are told in the Bible to share the Gospel. Jesus Himself told us to do that in Matthew 28. Paul wrote about it in Romans 10. Just to name two. And you can't properly talk about Jesus without talking about Hell, which is what He came to save us from.

But that is coming from your beliefs. Other people recognize that the Bible was written by men many years after Jesus died, and therefore believe that what has been attributed to him is either made up or distorted as early Christians sought to expand their numbers. And the concept of hell came about later. Jesus never talked about it. The early Christians were getting frustrated that the stubborn Jews (and others, but the target was Jews) would not give in and abandon their religion, so they had to come up with a threatening punishment.

And, unfortunately, it continues today. I'm sure I'm not the only Jew who has been harassed, disrespected, and even bullied by Christians who hold my religious beliefs in disdain, with repeated warnings about the fate that awaits me if I won't see that they are the only ones whom G-d loves. I believe in a much more loving G-d.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand what OP is going through.

You need to develop a relationship with Jesus.

A relationship requires getting to know someone, and talking to them. So you would read the Bible, and pray for guidance.

It's a journey for all of us, OP.

If Jesus is so important for our salvation, why is it so hard for some people to develop a relationship with him or to pray, and why do they have to to go on a journey? Some people just naturally believe in Jesus because they were taught from birth to do so and the teaching worked.

Others don't learn from their parents or can't quite make themselves believe that a guy who lived over 2,000 years ago died for them and they have to believe in him or else they will suffer in hell for ETERNITY. It seems like if Jesus really loved us he'd make it easier for all of us to believe in him.

Maybe he doesn't want all of us in heaven with him. Maybe it's crowded up there or he and his father and the holy spirit are not so welcoming and benevolent after all.

I don't actually agree with any of your premises.

It's not hard. It's like growing up, a progression. You have to put something into your spiritual life to get something out of it.
Nobody just "naturally believes in Jesus." Not anyone I've met at least.
There is very little known about "suffering in hell for eternity." There is very little detail in the bible about it. Nobody knows what hell is or if it exists as we understand it.
If you think that a god exists who doesn't care about you... good for you, I guess? I mean, why would you think that matters to anyone other than yourself?

I guess my question is, if you are living a good life without God, why are you debating people on the internet about it? Why do you think that your beliefs matter so much that you want to convince everyone that you are right? I honestly am not very concerned about what other people believe, as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

Why not, if belief in Jesus is so important to our salvation (according to believers in Jesus) is it not natural to believe in him? Why would God, who supposedly loves us, make a world in which so many of his children never hear about Jesus and many others have difficulty believing in him?

Many people think they do know what hell is - they learn about it in Sunday school and church and from their familes - and spend a lot of time trying to convince and scare others about it. Should that be acceptable and encouraged in a civilized society?

You can take your premise as far as you want, it's basically a variant of "if God is good why is there evil in the world?" People far more intelligent than anyone on this forum have written and debated this issue extensively, and if you are interested in that topic, you should probably learn more about it before you try to debate, so that you can make more salient points.

I have never really met anyone that walks around threatening other people with hell, so... I don't really know what you are talking about. I would certainly discourage that behavior in a civilized society. I have to tell you, I go to church every Sunday and I cannot remember a discussion of hell. The point of Christianity is not avoiding hell. I'm sure you have come across people who had an unhealthy fixation with Hell, but that's your experience. And I find people who are fixated on something like hell generally have other issues they need to work through, and if they weren't obsessed with hell it would be some other thing. The point of Christianity is to love Jesus and become like him. The logistics after that point are unknown.

You don't want religion in your life. That's FINE. But you also don't know very much about Christianity, so why debate it? Learn about the thing you are against, and then come and debate.

So, pp knows all about Christianity and it's the "love Jesus and become like him" type experienced in pp's church. Alll those other denominations that humans have formed over the ages and all the other descriptions and aspects of Christianity found in the Bible and that we've heard about here on this forum from other CHristians don't count.