Wash Post article on Montgomery County salaries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the "hate" stems from jealousy.

We have a great gig. We make an actual difference in peoples' lives. If you ask anyone who has had the biggest impact on your life, I bet you more than 50% of people would say a teacher or coach is that person.

Add that, to the fact we have eight consecutive weeks off and snow days, and we are not liked. They think we should be paid minimum wage as glorified babysitters.

We all had career day - some of us were smart and chose to become teachers.

So which is it: it's a sweet gig, or it's such a demanding job that you deserve to paid a premium?

Good point

Teachers don't seem to realize that, in 2016, no credible profession is unionized by law. And obviously that impacts pay.

Are you trying to say that there is no law unionizing any credible profession? Also, MCEA is actually an association--not a union. Membership is not required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in MCPS and I haven't heard 8%. That seems excessive and high. I have never heard of getting a raise greater than 3%.

Is the 8% over a certain number of years? The article doesn't say. I wish it included more information about that "average 8%"

And I love how the article mentions fire and police. The Post LOVES to pit fire and police against the teachers. Well done, Post.

I think the 8% is described here:

"About three-quarters of the $100 million is earmarked for the 156,000-student school system. In 2014, the county Board of Education signed an agreement with unionized teachers, principals and support staff that calls for a 2 percent general wage hike and a 3 percent “step” or longevity increase in September, followed by another step increase in March averaging an additional 3 percent for some school employees."

So it's coming from the two step increases that were making up for the years that they had salary freezes and I think the two percent general wage hike is the cost of living adjustment.

I'm not sure if all employees will get the two makeup step increases or only the ones that were employed when they had the salary freeze.

I'm pretty sure it's only the ones that were eligible for the step increase during the year it was missed. Also, I don't think it's 2 makeup step increases -- the other step increase is the normal step increase that folks would and should get during this fiscal year. Basically, the fact that they missed step increases for a number of years (not sure how many) means that a teacher with X years on the job is making the same as a new hire. Since we all know that teacher experience is really key -- and those first few years are like dog years -- it's really not fair that this isn't reflected in their pay. The more senior teachers probably aren't even eligible for the step increase. I just checked the salary scales online, and after 18 years, they aren't even eligible for regular step increases. To get that $90K that a PP mentioned, you have to have a masters and have been working more than 16 years for the County. The entry level folks are only making $48K -- and by "entry level" I mean all the folks that were hired since they stopped giving the annual step increases.

There is a ton of money wasted in this County. I pay a ton of taxes, but the one thing I will not complain about paying taxes for is to pay a better than competitive wage to our teachers, police and firefighters. I want the best of the best for those three. (And if you think we're not already losing good teacher candidates to FCPS--as well as to counties where the cost of living is less, like AA and HC, you're wrong.)

[Anonymous]

I think teachers are underpaid even at 90k (after 20 years). Now if you stated them off at 90k that would be make more sense. My kid's education is too important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an MCPS teacher who is leaving the public school system. I am sick of performing at a very high level while others coast and make the system look terrible. I believe there should be incentives and rewards for teachers who do good work, as opposed to uniform raises for all. I wish it were easier to get rid of bad teachers. Instead, the good ones flee, because the system is stuck in mediocrity and the wonderful teachers resent that the system equally rewards the great and the awful teachers. I also think the county should start tracking school retention numbers. If you want to see whether a school has decent leadership, evaluate the number of high-achieving professionals who are leaving. That will speak volumes.

While I don't necessarily disagree, how do you evaluate teacher competence? A great teacher could have a classroom full of idiots and only make a small gain despite a doing a fabulous job; a terrible teacher could have a classroom full of geniuses and make a large gain despite doing a terrible job. It's hard to measure what kids "should" learn since so much is tied up with the kids natural ability. I have friends who are teachers; apparently everybody "knows" who the bad teachers are. I'm just unaware of any way to rate teachers that's not heavily dependent on the luck if the draw in getting students.

This is true. I work in a high FARMS/ESOL school and am considered to be good at what I do, by subjective and objective measures. But if my pay starts being tied to student performance under the guise of "teacher competence", then I'm high-tailing it to a different part of the county. I can't undo the effects of poverty in 6.5 hours/day. Ultimately I would have to put my family's well-being first.

As the parent to a middle-class kid in a high FARMS/ESOL school, can I ask you a question? From the sidelines, it certainly seems like all the kids (including low income kids and ELLs) are making progress. They may not have started 2nd grade at a Q in reading, but they are making slow and steady progress from their own baselines. Do you not see the same?

Of course. But MCPS doesn't care about progress, only proficiency. A student who started 3rd grade reading at a Level 12 and now reads at a Level M has made great progress over the course of a year. But they're still reading a year below grade level and that's the data the county sees and cares about. They don't care about the child's circumstances.

As teachers we applaud progress and see how valuable and important it is. But when MCPS pulls data all they care about is proficiency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope they give them the 8%. They teach our kids and the least we can do is give them a salary that shows the importance of their job. They work way harder than people think, too.

Ridiculous. The vast majority of them were very average students with few special talents or aptitudes. They are being paid more than engineers and scientists with phd's because they are in a union.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think teachers are underpaid even at 90k (after 20 years). Now if you stated them off at 90k that would be make more sense. My kid's education is too important.

Wait until you realize that the education they got was pretty crappy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The property tax increases and pay raises are obscene. Do they think other people who actually live in the county are seeing pay increases of this magnitude?

Nope. We can't afford to live in our houses anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope they give them the 8%. They teach our kids and the least we can do is give them a salary that shows the importance of their job. They work way harder than people think, too.

Ridiculous. The vast majority of them were very average students with few special talents or aptitudes. They are being paid more than engineers and scientists with phd's because they are in a union.

Then maybe the engineers and PhD scientists should unionize. Or go into teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher in MCPS and I haven't heard 8%. That seems excessive and high. I have never heard of getting a raise greater than 3%.

Is the 8% over a certain number of years? The article doesn't say. I wish it included more information about that "average 8%"

And I love how the article mentions fire and police. The Post LOVES to pit fire and police against the teachers. Well done, Post.

The Post's editorial position is: if the public-employee unions are for it, we're against it (and vice versa).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8% raises would be insane...especially for a teacher who has summers off and a tremendous amount of vacation days (winter and spring break, holidays).

Many of us work over our breaks - planning and grading.

I know you don't care, which is fine with me. I'm not here to "compete" with you. I'm a career changer. So I know what working 12 months is like.

I will say, however, that many of us took these jobs fully aware of the fact that we'd be hitting 6 figures after TWENTY YEARS. Yes, that's how long it took me to make that much. I'm also factoring in two advanced degrees.

Having said that, while this job takes away some time from my kids - as in quality time b/c I'm planning and grading - I'm still around. I'm physically present. We spend our breaks together and we're home (two teacher HH) to meet the buses. I wouldn't trade this time with my kids for anything. never dread summers either!

We all choose jobs that fit our personalities and lifestyles. I was a teacher long before I had kids, but it's the best fit for our family.



So to all of the "haters," as my kids would say, hate away. If we get a raise, I'll be thrilled. If not, I'll still love the job despite the fact that it's the most difficult career I've ever had.

I'm with you. I've moved so many times (following spouse's career) that I'm not that high up on the scale in spite of a PhD and many years of university teaching for which I was given only "partial" credit. I think my job pays me a fine salary for the number of hours per year, but I'm certainly not rolling in it. I love that my job allows me to be present, like you said, both now while my children are young and in the future when they'll be getting into trouble between the hours of 2:30 and 7 PM when most people get home. I will happily welcome a raise, but who wouldn't?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting that the Council members are still giving themselves raises while denying others their previously negotiated raises.

That's the hard part of this to swallow for me. It is never "we're in this together". Council members and top execs still get raises and everyone else is told to shove off.

While the raises are high, they were actually designed that way because these workers agreed to forgo raises during the economic crisis. First things, first, why doesn't the county try to trim some wasteful spending? For example, why do county parks need their own police department? How much are they wasting on unnecessary business travel? And if the situation is so dire, why is there still a development impact tax exemption for downtown Bethesda?

Since they are failing to address real issues and only want to break employment agreements and increase taxes on citizens, I cannot believe that the county is serious at all. Frankly the shoddy state of our county government bothers me a whole lot.

Maybe someone addressed this up thread. I haven't read anything. But the Council decision gets rid of a make-up step that people lost in the recession. They are still all getting a 4.5% raise. Council doesn't get steps, so they aren't affected. They only get COLAs anyway, which is 1% this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what is the proposal? Zero? Less than 8? What?

4.5%

[Anonymous]

4.5% is a good raise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what is the proposal? Zero? Less than 8? What?

4.5%

Sorry, it's 5% for teachers. 4.5% for the rest of us County employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:4.5% is a good raise.

I'm a County employee (not teacher), and I agree. I think the 8% is insane. There are many services that were cut during the recession that have yet to be restored.