Is it Fair to Say That Both Parties Are to Blame in the Demise of a Marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: This is the part that terrifies me- I think a person that can cheat and lie has something flawed within them- which only, maybe can be credited with lots of introspection and therapy. He needs to learn to empathize more. I don't think someone could cheat if they has the ability to be empathetic.

Since -- what, 25-50% of spouses cheat at least once during their lifespan? -- that a vast majority of people must be "broken" or flawed. Have you never lied? or cheated in any way (not necessarily on your spouse. On a gf/bf? on a test? on your resume?)

We all make bad decisions. We all make unhealthy decisions (third slice of pie, anyone? did you skip the gym AGAIN this morning?). Cheating is among the biggest and baddest of the bad decisions. But it isn't uncommon, which makes me think it is normal. Cheaters aren't flawed. They are normal. We are all -- at our very core -- selfish. That doesn't mean I approve of cheating, but I understand it.

I do agree with with your comment that cheaters probably don't have the ability to empathize. At least with their spouse at that current time.

Most people are obese so it must be right. GMAFB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP - I think this sounds awful, and I do not believe people should accept and remain in a toxic relationship just because they said wedding vows. But as someone who divorced a BPD person (thank goodness no children), I disagree a little about the "blame" bit. It's not all one person's fault or the others. She was nutty and emotionally abusive and took a hell of a toll on me while I only tried to love her and make her happy. However, I knew that relationship wasn't right and I had my own "white knight" syndrome going on, and that is what drew me to her 'damsel in distress' routine. It takes two to tango. Yes, I was a victim, but I was a willing victim who volunteered for far too damn long because I didn't want to investigate my own unhealthy behaviors and contributions. Did you really never have any idea he had hypomanic behavior? No hints of Bipolar swings? I had to take a hard look at myself to see why I was drawn to such an abusive awful person, even when they clearly made me miserable. It takes two to tango.

Very well put PP. Depending on the context, the idea of "blame" may not be very useful. The first task of a couples therapist is to get the couple to stop fighting over who gets to claim being the injured party who can then blame the other. Only then can a discussion begin about where each party is in life and in the marriage, and whether they're willing/able to do what work it would take to get the marriage back on track. Of course the decision may be a yes or a no, and there can be good reason for a "no."

The "white knight" role can provide good cover for one's own issues, and can do a lot of damage under the guise of helping.

I am the PP to whom you are both responding.

Another PP suggested I knew about my ex's behavior and married him anyway. That is not the case at all. I only found out 3 years into the marriage about the affairs that had happened earlier. I knew him well when we married. I met and socialized with all of his work colleagues repeatedly, and they had nothing but nice things to say about him. (We worked in separate institutions in the same industry.) I met his brothers, his parents, old friends, etc. He met my friends and family. He was never abusive to me, neither emotionally nor physically. I thought I had checked him out as much as possible. We also had very clear discussions while we were dating about monogamy, because i knew a work colleague of his was cheating and I made it clear that I didn't respect that and didn't want that for myself. I feel very comfortable, looking back, that there were no red flags prior to our marriage.

Because he begged me not to kick him out after I found out and confronted him, I engaged in counseling with him. In counseling, he continued to lie about what he'd done and refused to reveal other things I subsequently discovered. He was not diagnosed with bipolar until long after our split. He has BPII, which is the type with hypomania (no florid delusions) and depression. He was diagnosed by his 6th mental health professional (2 PsyD marriage counselors, a psychiatrist, and 2 phd psychologists). Bipolar is notorious for being a frequently missed diagnosis. On average it takes 13.2 years until people with bipolar receive a diagnosis. How was I supposed to recognize the bipolar if 6 doctors didn't do so over the course of 2 years?

Everyone says I should have known. But there was no way of figuring out what was going on short of the things I ultimately started doing once I found the first piece of evidence -- checking all mobile phone numbers called, texts, email accounts, credit card receipts, computer history, installing a computer key logger on my computer which he used, writing down the mileage numbers on the car, counting or marking all alcohol and medications, and insisting on joint counseling and access to his psychiatrist. That's what it took to uncover massive deceptions and extensive cheating. But, really, who does that? I never was that kind of girlfriend or wife prior to the cheating, and I certainly didn't want to live life like that.

I have no martyr complex. I don't think it's my responsibility to save him. I stayed 2 years after I found out, only because as I uncovered more and more, I became truly concerned for my kids' health and safety. I'm glad I did that, as I gathered enough evidence that I have full custody with visitation to him (which is frequent, but often supervised and never overnight). I also fully understand what caused him to do it (which was far more than just the bipolar) and how damaging it would be for me and the kids to continue to live in what otherwise appeared to be a very happy 2 parent family.

I am sharing my story because I was susceptible to all of the lines one hears -- "she should have known" "there must have been a problem in their marriage to make him do this" "it's important to work through problems to keep the family intact", "she must want to have this drama in her life", etc., etc.

I don't believe any of that now. A cheater is engaging in massive, repeated acts of deception. He/she is directing important energies outside the marriage. He/she is conflict-avoidant and prefers manipulating people to meet his needs rather than engaging in communication and working through conflict. The cheater also prefers, ultimately, to be together with anyone, rather than alone. In a marriage where cheating is going on, none of the four basic underpinnings of a health marriage exist -- consent, trust, honesty and respect. The person who is cheated upon is not to blame. Living in an environment like that is a bad example for the kids and teaches them to distrust their emotional instincts in ways similar to being adult children of alcoholics.

I find the victim-blaming disturbing.