IB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is IB not popular on this board?

A variety of reasons. Initially, IB was put into struggling high schools as a way to improve them and induce middle class families to stay. In some of those schools the IB program never really caught on and remains underutilized. Part of the issue is that the full IB diploma is very rigorous and involves a lot of writing, extracurricular and service requirements, plus a thesis-like essay at the end. So it's something that appeals most to the top and most conscientious students. Students can still take individual IB classes, much like AP, but initially, at least there was the perception that colleges give more credit for AP than IB.

A lot of posters also object to the marginally higher test fees for IB which are paid by FCPS, but I think that could be easily managed by having both AP and IB test fees paid for by students.

Source please, I don't think that this is true.

Common knowledge, but as any IB teacher or school board member.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I firmly believe that both AP and IB can prepare a motivated student for college, if the teachers are good. Quality of the teacher trumps curriculum differences. A teacher like the PP, with a chip on her shoulder can do a lot of damage no matter which program they are teaching.

So basically, I am a poor quality teacher "with a chip on my shoulder" because

What other reason to post on a local forum with a very narrow focus while living and working in Europe, than a chip on the shoulder?

If you moved to Europe for your job, would you stop posting on this forum? Should one cease posting on this site after leaving American soil?

The irony of your sentiment is that it is very, very anti-IB. The IB program's main foundation office is in Switzerland. The original framework/pedagogy for the IB program was created by a French woman, Marie-Thérèse Dupuy, who worked at the Geneva International School, and the IB grew into maturity as it was used at multiple other International Schools (well before it was adopted in the US). The promotion of "international mindedness" is intrinsic to the IB curriculum; I placed "international mindedness in quotation marks because this term appears over and over in the IB documents/materials that state requirements of approach and material to IB teachers. In fact, there are very specific requirements about texts for Parts 3 and 4 of the IB English program, meant to ensure that multiple geographic locations are represented in literature choices. The IB teacher training sessions and materials that were originally used to show American teachers in the US how to teach IB, and to introduce the curriculum, were developed by teachers who had been teaching IB in International Schools. Yet you feel that the views of an educator who has been teaching IB at one of the those schools in which IB was "born", one of those schools that used IB long before it arrived in the US, are not welcome or relevant in your discussion of the merits of IB? You know, a person with your attitude toward the validity/desirability of writing/viewpoint based on the author's geographic location is VERY anti-IB, and you yourself would struggle mightily with several IB courses because of your outlook.

And your need to rebuke in so many words is another evidence of an agenda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I firmly believe that both AP and IB can prepare a motivated student for college, if the teachers are good. Quality of the teacher trumps curriculum differences. A teacher like the PP, with a chip on her shoulder can do a lot of damage no matter which program they are teaching.

So basically, I am a poor quality teacher "with a chip on my shoulder" because

What other reason to post on a local forum with a very narrow focus while living and working in Europe, than a chip on the shoulder?

If you moved to Europe for your job, would you stop posting on this forum? Should one cease posting on this site after leaving American soil?

The irony of your sentiment is that it is very, very anti-IB. The IB program's main foundation office is in Switzerland. The original framework/pedagogy for the IB program was created by a French woman, Marie-Thérèse Dupuy, who worked at the Geneva International School, and the IB grew into maturity as it was used at multiple other International Schools (well before it was adopted in the US). The promotion of "international mindedness" is intrinsic to the IB curriculum; I placed "international mindedness in quotation marks because this term appears over and over in the IB documents/materials that state requirements of approach and material to IB teachers. In fact, there are very specific requirements about texts for Parts 3 and 4 of the IB English program, meant to ensure that multiple geographic locations are represented in literature choices. The IB teacher training sessions and materials that were originally used to show American teachers in the US how to teach IB, and to introduce the curriculum, were developed by teachers who had been teaching IB in International Schools. Yet you feel that the views of an educator who has been teaching IB at one of the those schools in which IB was "born", one of those schools that used IB long before it arrived in the US, are not welcome or relevant in your discussion of the merits of IB? You know, a person with your attitude toward the validity/desirability of writing/viewpoint based on the author's geographic location is VERY anti-IB, and you yourself would struggle mightily with several IB courses because of your outlook.

And your need to rebuke in so many words is another evidence of an agenda.

You are losing in this debate. Accept it and submit. (not the teacher here... just an interested parent)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I firmly believe that both AP and IB can prepare a motivated student for college, if the teachers are good. Quality of the teacher trumps curriculum differences. A teacher like the PP, with a chip on her shoulder can do a lot of damage no matter which program they are teaching.

So basically, I am a poor quality teacher "with a chip on my shoulder" because

What other reason to post on a local forum with a very narrow focus while living and working in Europe, than a chip on the shoulder?

If you moved to Europe for your job, would you stop posting on this forum? Should one cease posting on this site after leaving American soil?

The irony of your sentiment is that it is very, very anti-IB. The IB program's main foundation office is in Switzerland. The original framework/pedagogy for the IB program was created by a French woman, Marie-Thérèse Dupuy, who worked at the Geneva International School, and the IB grew into maturity as it was used at multiple other International Schools (well before it was adopted in the US). The promotion of "international mindedness" is intrinsic to the IB curriculum; I placed "international mindedness in quotation marks because this term appears over and over in the IB documents/materials that state requirements of approach and material to IB teachers. In fact, there are very specific requirements about texts for Parts 3 and 4 of the IB English program, meant to ensure that multiple geographic locations are represented in literature choices. The IB teacher training sessions and materials that were originally used to show American teachers in the US how to teach IB, and to introduce the curriculum, were developed by teachers who had been teaching IB in International Schools. Yet you feel that the views of an educator who has been teaching IB at one of the those schools in which IB was "born", one of those schools that used IB long before it arrived in the US, are not welcome or relevant in your discussion of the merits of IB? You know, a person with your attitude toward the validity/desirability of writing/viewpoint based on the author's geographic location is VERY anti-IB, and you yourself would struggle mightily with several IB courses because of your outlook.

And your need to rebuke in so many words is another evidence of an agenda.

Or, perhaps, The brevity of your comment shows you have no response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I firmly believe that both AP and IB can prepare a motivated student for college, if the teachers are good. Quality of the teacher trumps curriculum differences. A teacher like the PP, with a chip on her shoulder can do a lot of damage no matter which program they are teaching.

So basically, I am a poor quality teacher "with a chip on my shoulder" because

What other reason to post on a local forum with a very narrow focus while living and working in Europe, than a chip on the shoulder?

If you moved to Europe for your job, would you stop posting on this forum? Should one cease posting on this site after leaving American soil?

The irony of your sentiment is that it is very, very anti-IB. The IB program's main foundation office is in Switzerland. The original framework/pedagogy for the IB program was created by a French woman, Marie-Thérèse Dupuy, who worked at the Geneva International School, and the IB grew into maturity as it was used at multiple other International Schools (well before it was adopted in the US). The promotion of "international mindedness" is intrinsic to the IB curriculum; I placed "international mindedness in quotation marks because this term appears over and over in the IB documents/materials that state requirements of approach and material to IB teachers. In fact, there are very specific requirements about texts for Parts 3 and 4 of the IB English program, meant to ensure that multiple geographic locations are represented in literature choices. The IB teacher training sessions and materials that were originally used to show American teachers in the US how to teach IB, and to introduce the curriculum, were developed by teachers who had been teaching IB in International Schools. Yet you feel that the views of an educator who has been teaching IB at one of the those schools in which IB was "born", one of those schools that used IB long before it arrived in the US, are not welcome or relevant in your discussion of the merits of IB? You know, a person with your attitude toward the validity/desirability of writing/viewpoint based on the author's geographic location is VERY anti-IB, and you yourself would struggle mightily with several IB courses because of your outlook.

And your need to rebuke in so many words is another evidence of an agenda.

I really don't understand why you feel I have an agenda. Where is the evidence of my agenda? Just that I have concluded that the program you favor is not the strongest? If I had asserted that IB is the stronger program, would you still see evidence of an agenda? Look, just because I feel AP is stronger does not mean that I think IB is a bad program. You appear to be opposed to learning anything new about IB or AP, or even debating the topic in a rational, logical (or, indeed, any other) manner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

+1. MoCo IB magnet had 41 NMSF this year, far better than TJ based on %.

Source?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

+1. MoCo IB magnet had 41 NMSF this year, far better than TJ based on %.

Source?

go check out national merit thread. 41% for rm (41 out of 100 kids) vs. 32% tj (162 out of 500)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

+1. MoCo IB magnet had 41 NMSF this year, far better than TJ based on %.

Source?

go check out national merit thread. 41% for rm (41 out of 100 kids) vs. 32% tj (162 out of 500)

What a dumb argument. RM has about 500 seniors this year. The pool of talent is much deeper at TJ, and Asian parents most definitely are not falling over themselves to get their kids into IB schools in Northern Virginia, where they have better options than in Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

+1. MoCo IB magnet had 41 NMSF this year, far better than TJ based on %.

Source?

go check out national merit thread. 41% for rm (41 out of 100 kids) vs. 32% tj (162 out of 500)

What a dumb argument. RM has about 500 seniors this year. The pool of talent is much deeper at TJ, and Asian parents most definitely are not falling over themselves to get their kids into IB schools in Northern Virginia, where they have better options than in Montgomery County.

TJ senior class is 458 and they had 164 semifinalists this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

+1. MoCo IB magnet had 41 NMSF this year, far better than TJ based on %.

Source?

go check out national merit thread. 41% for rm (41 out of 100 kids) vs. 32% tj (162 out of 500)

What a dumb argument. RM has about 500 seniors this year. The pool of talent is much deeper at TJ, and Asian parents most definitely are not falling over themselves to get their kids into IB schools in Northern Virginia, where they have better options than in Montgomery County.

TJ senior class is 458 and they had 164 semifinalists this year.

That's very impressive - more from TJ than from all of MoCo or from all the IB schools in Arlington, Fairfax and Montgomery Counties combined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

+1. MoCo IB magnet had 41 NMSF this year, far better than TJ based on %.

Source?

go check out national merit thread. 41% for rm (41 out of 100 kids) vs. 32% tj (162 out of 500)

What a dumb argument. RM has about 500 seniors this year. The pool of talent is much deeper at TJ, and Asian parents most definitely are not falling over themselves to get their kids into IB schools in Northern Virginia, where they have better options than in Montgomery County.

TJ senior class is 458 and they had 164 semifinalists this year.

That's very impressive - more from TJ than from all of MoCo or from all the IB schools in Arlington, Fairfax and Montgomery Counties combined.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, Jeff, I always manage to quit out of my mobile posts before I submit them.

Ok, so I want to preface this with two statements:

1. My background is in higher education/curriculum development
2. I am a former College Board employee

That said, I think both programs are great, but if I had to choose between the two for myself or my own child, I'd go with IB. Here is why: IB places more of an emphasis on two things that are valued in a university setting and too few kids are prepared to do at the college level.

1. Long form critical analysis/writing.
2. Interdisciplinary work.

In the last twenty years or so, the CEEB has made a significant effort to maintain its stranglehold on the AP brand (AP, not SAT, is where they make their money BTW). Part of that is what they call the AP Course Audit, which means that, in order for a school to brand a course as "AP," the syllabus has to be approved by the CEEB.

The marketing spin on this is actually pretty impressive, because ultimately a kid's score on the AP exam is all that matters to an institution, and the student's actual learning can't be measured -- only their ability to meet the constraints of the test.

So my concern about the AP program is the increasing effort to teach the humanities courses to the grading methodologies of the exams, which are very much based on the old five sentence paragraph with an intro sentence, blah blah, and the .way that the curriculum doesn't really support interdisciplinary work, which I personally believe is very important. But YMMV. Anecdotally, I have a number of friends and family members who are seeing students come into excellent universities and colleges with great credentials and a number of AP credits, who just aren't prepared for the caliber of critical writing, despite their high school work on the AP level.

In the long run, it's a matter of what's best for your kid -- only you can know that. And on the part of FCPS, it was quite brilliant to put IB into the "lower performing" pyramids (which is really relative when you're in the top school systems in the country) schools, to draw more non-FARMs families and to add more socio-economic diversity to the schools. And in the case of pyramids like Annandale and South Lakes, which are pretty diverse, it was a great way to retain upper-middle class kids and the IDCP provided kids who were not college bound with a lot of options.

One last thing: I grew up with a lot of kids who went to WIS because they were European diplomat's kids. They needed the IBDP to go to university in their home countries. I think things are a lot more flexible now, but the IB diploma definitely has its place in that regard, and no one can argue the strength of the program at Richard Montgomery.

Students are retained by boundaries. MOCO does not have multiple schools with IB. Fees are not marginally higher. FCPS is weak in AAP, gen ed, etal for writing. It would not be if teachers were not overburdened and the SOQ of 24/class was met in English. Fault is with Instructional Services.

[Anonymous]

I knew ZERO asian parents clamouring for IB in FCPS. It was about options and TJ and AP won. How many asian parents pupil place into South Lakes or Marshall from Langley/Oakton/Mclean/Westfields?

FCPS is not MOCO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I knew ZERO asian parents clamouring for IB in FCPS. It was about options and TJ and AP won. How many asian parents pupil place into South Lakes or Marshall from Langley/Oakton/Mclean/Westfields?

FCPS is not MOCO.

Here's the break-down on NMSFs in Fairfax, taken from another thread. The IB schools look weak compared to the AP schools. To speak to your other point, there are a few of the NMSFs from IB schools with Asian surnames, but more NMSFs with Asian surnames from multiple AP schools than from all the IB schools combined.

STEM Magnet (AP and above)

TJ 163

AP Schools

McLean 16
Madison 12
Oakton 7
Langley 6
Lake Braddock 5
Woodson 5
Herndon 4
South County 3
Centreville 2
Chantilly 2
Fairfax 2
Westfield 2
Falls Church 1
West Springfield 1
Hayfield 0
West Potomac 0

IB Schools

Marshall 2
South Lakes 2
Annandale 1
Robinson 1
Edison 0
Lee 0
Mount Vernon 0
Stuart 0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Students are retained by boundaries. MOCO does not have multiple schools with IB. Fees are not marginally higher. FCPS is weak in AAP, gen ed, etal for writing. It would not be if teachers were not overburdened and the SOQ of 24/class was met in English. Fault is with Instructional Services.

This is classic DCUM "word salad," but there are just as many IB schools in MCPS as FCPS (eight, including the magnet program at Richard Montgomery); FCPS has the strongest AAP program and magnet school (TJ) in the DC region; and the number of NMSFs from FCPS just reached a record high.

But, yes, the quality of the writing instruction is both inconsistent and constrained by the large classroom sizes.