IB

[Anonymous]

Are there any IB programs in FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Yes

[Anonymous]

Go over to MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Why is IB not popular on this board?

[Anonymous]

Yes, quite a few high schools are ib and all their feeder middles are transitioning to ibmyp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is IB not popular on this board?

A variety of reasons. Initially, IB was put into struggling high schools as a way to improve them and induce middle class families to stay. In some of those schools the IB program never really caught on and remains underutilized. Part of the issue is that the full IB diploma is very rigorous and involves a lot of writing, extracurricular and service requirements, plus a thesis-like essay at the end. So it's something that appeals most to the top and most conscientious students. Students can still take individual IB classes, much like AP, but initially, at least there was the perception that colleges give more credit for AP than IB.

A lot of posters also object to the marginally higher test fees for IB which are paid by FCPS, but I think that could be easily managed by having both AP and IB test fees paid for by students.

[Anonymous]

I don't think IB is "not popular" so much as there is a strong preference for AP. Some schools have fewer AP classes due to IB and that's what annoys people. There is very little parent support for IB, though most people don't care except that it is expensive and competes with AP for resources.

[Anonymous]

IB is good for some kids, but for mine I think AP is a better fit. It's not a question of popularity at all.

[Anonymous]

Ugh, Jeff, I always manage to quit out of my mobile posts before I submit them.

Ok, so I want to preface this with two statements:

1. My background is in higher education/curriculum development
2. I am a former College Board employee

That said, I think both programs are great, but if I had to choose between the two for myself or my own child, I'd go with IB. Here is why: IB places more of an emphasis on two things that are valued in a university setting and too few kids are prepared to do at the college level.

1. Long form critical analysis/writing.
2. Interdisciplinary work.

In the last twenty years or so, the CEEB has made a significant effort to maintain its stranglehold on the AP brand (AP, not SAT, is where they make their money BTW). Part of that is what they call the AP Course Audit, which means that, in order for a school to brand a course as "AP," the syllabus has to be approved by the CEEB.

The marketing spin on this is actually pretty impressive, because ultimately a kid's score on the AP exam is all that matters to an institution, and the student's actual learning can't be measured -- only their ability to meet the constraints of the test.

So my concern about the AP program is the increasing effort to teach the humanities courses to the grading methodologies of the exams, which are very much based on the old five sentence paragraph with an intro sentence, blah blah, and the .way that the curriculum doesn't really support interdisciplinary work, which I personally believe is very important. But YMMV. Anecdotally, I have a number of friends and family members who are seeing students come into excellent universities and colleges with great credentials and a number of AP credits, who just aren't prepared for the caliber of critical writing, despite their high school work on the AP level.

In the long run, it's a matter of what's best for your kid -- only you can know that. And on the part of FCPS, it was quite brilliant to put IB into the "lower performing" pyramids (which is really relative when you're in the top school systems in the country) schools, to draw more non-FARMs families and to add more socio-economic diversity to the schools. And in the case of pyramids like Annandale and South Lakes, which are pretty diverse, it was a great way to retain upper-middle class kids and the IDCP provided kids who were not college bound with a lot of options.

One last thing: I grew up with a lot of kids who went to WIS because they were European diplomat's kids. They needed the IBDP to go to university in their home countries. I think things are a lot more flexible now, but the IB diploma definitely has its place in that regard, and no one can argue the strength of the program at Richard Montgomery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, quite a few high schools are ib and all their feeder middles are transitioning to ibmyp.

This is not correct. Many middle schools in FCPS that send children to IB high schools also send kids to AP high schools. In FCPS parlance, such schools are referred to as "spot feeders." These schools will never become IBMYP schools as the curriculum would be useless to students heading off to AP high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, Jeff, I always manage to quit out of my mobile posts before I submit them.

Ok, so I want to preface this with two statements:

1. My background is in higher education/curriculum development
2. I am a former College Board employee

That said, I think both programs are great, but if I had to choose between the two for myself or my own child, I'd go with IB. Here is why: IB places more of an emphasis on two things that are valued in a university setting and too few kids are prepared to do at the college level.

1. Long form critical analysis/writing.
2. Interdisciplinary work.

In the last twenty years or so, the CEEB has made a significant effort to maintain its stranglehold on the AP brand (AP, not SAT, is where they make their money BTW). Part of that is what they call the AP Course Audit, which means that, in order for a school to brand a course as "AP," the syllabus has to be approved by the CEEB.

The marketing spin on this is actually pretty impressive, because ultimately a kid's score on the AP exam is all that matters to an institution, and the student's actual learning can't be measured -- only their ability to meet the constraints of the test.

So my concern about the AP program is the increasing effort to teach the humanities courses to the grading methodologies of the exams, which are very much based on the old five sentence paragraph with an intro sentence, blah blah, and the .way that the curriculum doesn't really support interdisciplinary work, which I personally believe is very important. But YMMV. Anecdotally, I have a number of friends and family members who are seeing students come into excellent universities and colleges with great credentials and a number of AP credits, who just aren't prepared for the caliber of critical writing, despite their high school work on the AP level.

In the long run, it's a matter of what's best for your kid -- only you can know that. And on the part of FCPS, it was quite brilliant to put IB into the "lower performing" pyramids (which is really relative when you're in the top school systems in the country) schools, to draw more non-FARMs families and to add more socio-economic diversity to the schools. And in the case of pyramids like Annandale and South Lakes, which are pretty diverse, it was a great way to retain upper-middle class kids and the IDCP provided kids who were not college bound with a lot of options.

One last thing: I grew up with a lot of kids who went to WIS because they were European diplomat's kids. They needed the IBDP to go to university in their home countries. I think things are a lot more flexible now, but the IB diploma definitely has its place in that regard, and no one can argue the strength of the program at Richard Montgomery.

I don't find this credible. In large part, the credibility of your post is undermined by the assertion that placing IB in lower income schools has served to retain substantial number of higher income families and attracted families and students to those schools. Instead, having IB at the schools has led families to avoid the IB school districts and given the families who reside in those districts and care more about education the ability to pupil place their children to nearby, higher ranked AP schools. In short, the strategy that FCPS has pursued has been a failure and a waste of resources. Notably, no higher income community in the county has ever sought to have AP in their schools replaced with IB, and parents at one top-ranked AP school (Woodson) successfully rebuffed the efforts by FCPS to install IB there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't find this credible. In large part, the credibility of your post is undermined by the assertion that placing IB in lower income schools has served to retain substantial number of higher income families and attracted families and students to those schools. Instead, having IB at the schools has led families to avoid the IB school districts and given the families who reside in those districts and care more about education the ability to pupil place their children to nearby, higher ranked AP schools. In short, the strategy that FCPS has pursued has been a failure and a waste of resources. Notably, no higher income community in the county has ever sought to have AP in their schools replaced with IB, and parents at one top-ranked AP school (Woodson) successfully rebuffed the efforts by FCPS to install IB there.

I didn't say it was successful, but it was a rather smart attempt.

On your part, I find the assertion that lower income families care about education less than higher income families to undermine your argument (and to be staggeringly classist). I guess when you're struggling to pay the bills, you have less energy to spend on DCUM arguing the benefits of HYP over UVA or Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, Jeff, I always manage to quit out of my mobile posts before I submit them.

Ok, so I want to preface this with two statements:

1. My background is in higher education/curriculum development
2. I am a former College Board employee

That said, I think both programs are great, but if I had to choose between the two for myself or my own child, I'd go with IB. Here is why: IB places more of an emphasis on two things that are valued in a university setting and too few kids are prepared to do at the college level.

1. Long form critical analysis/writing.
2. Interdisciplinary work.

In the last twenty years or so, the CEEB has made a significant effort to maintain its stranglehold on the AP brand (AP, not SAT, is where they make their money BTW). Part of that is what they call the AP Course Audit, which means that, in order for a school to brand a course as "AP," the syllabus has to be approved by the CEEB.

The marketing spin on this is actually pretty impressive, because ultimately a kid's score on the AP exam is all that matters to an institution, and the student's actual learning can't be measured -- only their ability to meet the constraints of the test.

So my concern about the AP program is the increasing effort to teach the humanities courses to the grading methodologies of the exams, which are very much based on the old five sentence paragraph with an intro sentence, blah blah, and the .way that the curriculum doesn't really support interdisciplinary work, which I personally believe is very important. But YMMV. Anecdotally, I have a number of friends and family members who are seeing students come into excellent universities and colleges with great credentials and a number of AP credits, who just aren't prepared for the caliber of critical writing, despite their high school work on the AP level.

In the long run, it's a matter of what's best for your kid -- only you can know that. And on the part of FCPS, it was quite brilliant to put IB into the "lower performing" pyramids (which is really relative when you're in the top school systems in the country) schools, to draw more non-FARMs families and to add more socio-economic diversity to the schools. And in the case of pyramids like Annandale and South Lakes, which are pretty diverse, it was a great way to retain upper-middle class kids and the IDCP provided kids who were not college bound with a lot of options.

One last thing: I grew up with a lot of kids who went to WIS because they were European diplomat's kids. They needed the IBDP to go to university in their home countries. I think things are a lot more flexible now, but the IB diploma definitely has its place in that regard, and no one can argue the strength of the program at Richard Montgomery.

Actually, what FCPS did is sacrifice the lower SES kids to appease higher SES families. Because IB is writing intensive, it is not generally as good of a fit for ESOL kids as AP would be. So instead of doing what was better for the majority of kids in schools like Stuart, FCPS decided to pander to the higher SES, more vocal families. I don't call that brilliant, I call it appalling.

[Anonymous]

Are there any IB programs in FCPS?

This thread is in the wrong place. IB is not an AAP program. Moreover, this topic has been done to death on DCUM, OP. Next time, take the time to look at old threads before posting.

[Anonymous]

IB is a super wonderful program if kids can handle the rigor. I hope FCPS fully embraces it.