IB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach HL IB English at an International School; I also teach AP English. AP English is significantly more intense, difficult, and content-dense. In the International School world in Europe, students and parents believe (no matter how I explain otherwise) that IB is "better" and "harder", and this is disastrous for the students who take AP English believing it is easier. Plus, students who love literature really miss out by taking IB English rather than AP.

The Math teachers at our school who teach both IB and AP also agree that AP is more rigorous.

IB is the Emperor's new clothes of education, and the philosophical component sounds great, but is largely worthless and is executed at the expense of subject matter content, in my opinion. My own son did the AP Diploma; I strongly discouraged him from doing IB. I am a bit sad to see some very intelligent kids who love literature in my HL IB classes this year, as opposed to my AP class, because I know they would get so much more out of AP.

IB was developed for the International School world and that is where I am teaching; I don't even see how it is fully implemented/applicable to schools in America. And yet, even in overseas International Schools, I think AP is vastly superior.

Thank you for sharing your perspective (assuming this was not just a cut-and-paste of the teacher's comment from another website). This is very consistent with what we see and public schools in Northern Virginia, where IB is of primary interest to white parents who like it because it is has "international" in the title. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

I assure you that it isn't a cut-and-paste of anything. I'm very frustrated this week about the attitude of the students at my school toward the AP program. If Jeff wants to confirm that I'm posting from Europe, that's fine with me.

Can you elaborate on this AP Diploma that your son did? Is it the AP Capstone program, or something else? First I hear of an AP Diploma.

My son did the AP International Diploma (APID). He also took a handful of IB classes "a la carte", and he had originally intended to go to university in DH's country. However, we recently sent him off to the US on a full merit scholarship. I don't regret steering him toward the AP program. Again, I teach both AP English and HL IB English, so I know exactly what each program is like. When sophomores ask me for advice about AP vs. IB, I advise high achieving students who love literature to choose AP English over IB. I think IB English is fine for students who don't particularly care for literature, but who are hard workers. At our International School in Europe, I advise strong students who are non-native speakers of English to go for the IB rather than AP. I am appalled that top American students in the US are being advised to do IB rather than AP, but as I wrote earlier, IB is really the Emperor's new clothes of the education world. It was designed for International Schools, and is great for non-native speakers of English in that setting, but I don't think it can "work" in the US.

Here's more information about the APID: http://international.collegeboard.org/programs/apid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach HL IB English at an International School; I also teach AP English. AP English is significantly more intense, difficult, and content-dense. In the International School world in Europe, students and parents believe (no matter how I explain otherwise) that IB is "better" and "harder", and this is disastrous for the students who take AP English believing it is easier. Plus, students who love literature really miss out by taking IB English rather than AP.

The Math teachers at our school who teach both IB and AP also agree that AP is more rigorous.

IB is the Emperor's new clothes of education, and the philosophical component sounds great, but is largely worthless and is executed at the expense of subject matter content, in my opinion. My own son did the AP Diploma; I strongly discouraged him from doing IB. I am a bit sad to see some very intelligent kids who love literature in my HL IB classes this year, as opposed to my AP class, because I know they would get so much more out of AP.

IB was developed for the International School world and that is where I am teaching; I don't even see how it is fully implemented/applicable to schools in America. And yet, even in overseas International Schools, I think AP is vastly superior.

Thank you for sharing your perspective (assuming this was not just a cut-and-paste of the teacher's comment from another website). This is very consistent with what we see and public schools in Northern Virginia, where IB is of primary interest to white parents who like it because it is has "international" in the title. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

I assure you that it isn't a cut-and-paste of anything. I'm very frustrated this week about the attitude of the students at my school toward the AP program. If Jeff wants to confirm that I'm posting from Europe, that's fine with me.

Can you elaborate on this AP Diploma that your son did? Is it the AP Capstone program, or something else? First I hear of an AP Diploma.

My son did the AP International Diploma (APID). He also took a handful of IB classes "a la carte", and he had originally intended to go to university in DH's country. However, we recently sent him off to the US on a full merit scholarship. I don't regret steering him toward the AP program. Again, I teach both AP English and HL IB English, so I know exactly what each program is like. When sophomores ask me for advice about AP vs. IB, I advise high achieving students who love literature to choose AP English over IB. I think IB English is fine for students who don't particularly care for literature, but who are hard workers. At our International School in Europe, I advise strong students who are non-native speakers of English to go for the IB rather than AP. I am appalled that top American students in the US are being advised to do IB rather than AP, but as I wrote earlier, IB is really the Emperor's new clothes of the education world. It was designed for International Schools, and is great for non-native speakers of English in that setting, but I don't think it can "work" in the US.

Here's more information about the APID: http://international.collegeboard.org/programs/apid.

The link in my last post won't work with the period on the end of it. Here's the working link for information about the AP International Diploma: http://international.collegeboard.org/programs/apid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

+1. MoCo IB magnet had 41 NMSF this year, far better than TJ based on %.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

Even if this is true, what does it prove, exactly? The parents aren't privy to the mechanics of the curriculum; parents are exposed only to the glossy, marketing aspect of IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

Even if this is true, what does it prove, exactly? The parents aren't privy to the mechanics of the curriculum; parents are exposed only to the glossy, marketing aspect of IB.

No, it proves how much Asian parents are driven by prestige. IB curriculum might not be the best fit for the career paths Asians traditionally groom their kids for, yet they run to MoCo IB schools like lemmings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

Even if this is true, what does it prove, exactly? The parents aren't privy to the mechanics of the curriculum; parents are exposed only to the glossy, marketing aspect of IB.

No, it proves how much Asian parents are driven by prestige. IB curriculum might not be the best fit for the career paths Asians traditionally groom their kids for, yet they run to MoCo IB schools like lemmings.

Asian parent here and I must say I love IB. It's teaching exactly what my kids need to learn in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

Even if this is true, what does it prove, exactly? The parents aren't privy to the mechanics of the curriculum; parents are exposed only to the glossy, marketing aspect of IB.

No, it proves how much Asian parents are driven by prestige. IB curriculum might not be the best fit for the career paths Asians traditionally groom their kids for, yet they run to MoCo IB schools like lemmings.

Asian parent here and I must say I love IB. It's teaching exactly what my kids need to learn in HS.

How do you know this without an in-depth knowledge of the IB and AP curricula? Really, how do you know? As a teacher, I'm certain you don't understand exactly how IB and AP work. The marketing talks and propaganda are very powerful, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you know this without an in-depth knowledge of the IB and AP curricula? Really, how do you know? As a teacher, I'm certain you don't understand exactly how IB and AP work. The marketing talks and propaganda are very powerful, though.

You assume that all parents are illiterate and unable to do their own research. You must teach at an inner city school or Appalachia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:. Meanwhile, the Asian parents who pay the most attention to the education of their children gravitate towards the AP schools.

BS. In MontCo Asian parents stumble all over themselves to get their kids into IB schools.

Even if this is true, what does it prove, exactly? The parents aren't privy to the mechanics of the curriculum; parents are exposed only to the glossy, marketing aspect of IB.

No, it proves how much Asian parents are driven by prestige. IB curriculum might not be the best fit for the career paths Asians traditionally groom their kids for, yet they run to MoCo IB schools like lemmings.

Asian parent here and I must say I love IB. It's teaching exactly what my kids need to learn in HS.

How do you know this without an in-depth knowledge of the IB and AP curricula? Really, how do you know? As a teacher, I'm certain you don't understand exactly how IB and AP work. The marketing talks and propaganda are very powerful, though.

My 2 kids spent 8 years in IB, third one spent 4 years in Ap. I spent 12 years looking after my kids... While I am the first to admit I don't know everything, I am comfortable saying I know what's best for each of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know this without an in-depth knowledge of the IB and AP curricula? Really, how do you know? As a teacher, I'm certain you don't understand exactly how IB and AP work. The marketing talks and propaganda are very powerful, though.

You assume that all parents are illiterate and unable to do their own research. You must teach at an inner city school or Appalachia.

No, I teach at an International School in Europe (the environment in which the IB was born).

I don't assume that parents are "illiterate" or "unable to do their own research"; I know that it took intense training and experience for me to understand how to teach IB and AP, and I don't think many parents are paying to do a course in IB or AP curriculum. I'm just offering my opinion, based on my experience teaching IB and AP, and my observations of students in both of these programs over the years. Our school has a parent-teacher IB/AP Info Night every year, and I'm frustrated at how many parents become angry when I suggest that AP might be the best fit for their child, or that IB might not be the magical unicorn they believe it to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know this without an in-depth knowledge of the IB and AP curricula? Really, how do you know? As a teacher, I'm certain you don't understand exactly how IB and AP work. The marketing talks and propaganda are very powerful, though.

You assume that all parents are illiterate and unable to do their own research. You must teach at an inner city school or Appalachia.

No, I teach at an International School in Europe (the environment in which the IB was born).

I don't assume that parents are "illiterate" or "unable to do their own research"; I know that it took intense training and experience for me to understand how to teach IB and AP, and I don't think many parents are paying to do a course in IB or AP curriculum. I'm just offering my opinion, based on my experience teaching IB and AP, and my observations of students in both of these programs over the years. Our school has a parent-teacher IB/AP Info Night every year, and I'm frustrated at how many parents become angry when I suggest that AP might be the best fit for their child, or that IB might not be the magical unicorn they believe it to be.

Give parents some credit. Maybe they know what their kids need better than you do. It's possible, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know this without an in-depth knowledge of the IB and AP curricula? Really, how do you know? As a teacher, I'm certain you don't understand exactly how IB and AP work. The marketing talks and propaganda are very powerful, though.

You assume that all parents are illiterate and unable to do their own research. You must teach at an inner city school or Appalachia.

No, I teach at an International School in Europe (the environment in which the IB was born).

I don't assume that parents are "illiterate" or "unable to do their own research"; I know that it took intense training and experience for me to understand how to teach IB and AP, and I don't think many parents are paying to do a course in IB or AP curriculum. I'm just offering my opinion, based on my experience teaching IB and AP, and my observations of students in both of these programs over the years. Our school has a parent-teacher IB/AP Info Night every year, and I'm frustrated at how many parents become angry when I suggest that AP might be the best fit for their child, or that IB might not be the magical unicorn they believe it to be.

Give parents some credit. Maybe they know what their kids need better than you do. It's possible, right?

You seem really upset that this teacher has a different perspective than the IB crowd. She's not strident and all she has done is offer her opinion based on extensive familiarity with both AP and IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know this without an in-depth knowledge of the IB and AP curricula? Really, how do you know? As a teacher, I'm certain you don't understand exactly how IB and AP work. The marketing talks and propaganda are very powerful, though.

You assume that all parents are illiterate and unable to do their own research. You must teach at an inner city school or Appalachia.

No, I teach at an International School in Europe (the environment in which the IB was born).

I don't assume that parents are "illiterate" or "unable to do their own research"; I know that it took intense training and experience for me to understand how to teach IB and AP, and I don't think many parents are paying to do a course in IB or AP curriculum. I'm just offering my opinion, based on my experience teaching IB and AP, and my observations of students in both of these programs over the years. Our school has a parent-teacher IB/AP Info Night every year, and I'm frustrated at how many parents become angry when I suggest that AP might be the best fit for their child, or that IB might not be the magical unicorn they believe it to be.

Give parents some credit. Maybe they know what their kids need better than you do. It's possible, right?

You seem really upset that this teacher has a different perspective than the IB crowd. She's not strident and all she has done is offer her opinion based on extensive familiarity with both AP and IB.

Upset? No, I am not upset at all. I was just trying to point out, at least in DMV area, parents are pretty well informed about kids' education offerings/needs. Why did you think I was upset?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know this without an in-depth knowledge of the IB and AP curricula? Really, how do you know? As a teacher, I'm certain you don't understand exactly how IB and AP work. The marketing talks and propaganda are very powerful, though.

You assume that all parents are illiterate and unable to do their own research. You must teach at an inner city school or Appalachia.

No, I teach at an International School in Europe (the environment in which the IB was born).

I don't assume that parents are "illiterate" or "unable to do their own research"; I know that it took intense training and experience for me to understand how to teach IB and AP, and I don't think many parents are paying to do a course in IB or AP curriculum. I'm just offering my opinion, based on my experience teaching IB and AP, and my observations of students in both of these programs over the years. Our school has a parent-teacher IB/AP Info Night every year, and I'm frustrated at how many parents become angry when I suggest that AP might be the best fit for their child, or that IB might not be the magical unicorn they believe it to be.

Give parents some credit. Maybe they know what their kids need better than you do. It's possible, right?

You seem really upset that this teacher has a different perspective than the IB crowd. She's not strident and all she has done is offer her opinion based on extensive familiarity with both AP and IB.

Upset? No, I am not upset at all. I was just trying to point out, at least in DMV area, parents are pretty well informed about kids' education offerings/needs. Why did you think I was upset?

The tone of your post suggested frustration with any criticisms of IB. The teacher never suggested that she knows her students better than the parents know their own children.