Christian bakeries v. the GLBT communtiy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this hair-splitting belongs in the gov't arena. A private business can do whatever the heck they want. Freedom of choice is no freedom from consequences, right? LOL

Can they refuse black people? Obviously not. Did you miss the entire civil rights movement?

They weren't refusing to serve gay people. They were refusing a to enter into a contract for a specific type of event.

That changes nothing. Their grounds for refusal is still the same.

This was supposed to have been settled 50 years ago, with a lunch counter in Greensboro NC that refused to serve blacks. This is *NO* different.

The courts and the laws of the land already said they cannot deny service or refuse the contract. It is unacceptable and unlawful for you to try and turn the hands of time backwards to undo that.

The Neanderthals posting in this thread likely don't know that there is a long history of the Bible being used to justify slavery, segregation, lynchings and marital rape. Hopefully they aren't headed to Bubba Gump's tonight because, as we all know, eating shrimp like rabbit, is an abomination. And God forbid if you wear a woolen sweater under your linen jacket. Eternal damnation!

Last anyone checked, the Bible told of Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if someone asked you to bake a phallus cake for a gay weeding? Should you have The right to refuse?

This would come under"obscene."

To whom? Some consider a phallus a natural body part and don't see it as obscene at all. Who gets to determine it's obscene and not do-able?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if someone asked you to bake a phallus cake for a gay weeding? Should you have The right to refuse?

I'd like some gay weeding as my yard is a mess and my current gardener has been quite despondent since the Donald starting running his mouth about the immigration of Mexican rapists.

Is a "gay weeding" some type of male Brazilian wax?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Hobby Lobby can establish a National Museum of Wedding Cake Art adjacent to the new Binle Museum. I'd love to see the artistry of a cake depicting men riding dinosaurs through the Grand Canyon in 3000 BC.

Enjoy the photos - tell me this isn't an art:


https://www.google.com/search?q=wedding+cake+art&biw=1067&bih=849&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=z6idVaCsJMmjNqrClugJ&ved=0CCQQsAQ

It's not an art. Creative expression ends when you are making something for another person's taste. It is a service. Hairdressers also perform a service-- they create a cut based on the client's wishes. Just because bakers have trained to create with their hands doesn't mean they are artists-- the intent is not the same as art.

You could not be more wrong about this.

Lol. Alright, the last pp persuaded me. Such a stunning argument

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this hair-splitting belongs in the gov't arena. A private business can do whatever the heck they want. Freedom of choice is no freedom from consequences, right? LOL

Can they refuse black people? Obviously not. Did you miss the entire civil rights movement?

They weren't refusing to serve gay people. They were refusing a to enter into a contract for a specific type of event.

That changes nothing. Their grounds for refusal is still the same.

This was supposed to have been settled 50 years ago, with a lunch counter in Greensboro NC that refused to serve blacks. This is *NO* different.

The courts and the laws of the land already said they cannot deny service or refuse the contract. It is unacceptable and unlawful for you to try and turn the hands of time backwards to undo that.

The Neanderthals posting in this thread likely don't know that there is a long history of the Bible being used to justify slavery, segregation, lynchings and marital rape. Hopefully they aren't headed to Bubba Gump's tonight because, as we all know, eating shrimp like rabbit, is an abomination. And God forbid if you wear a woolen sweater under your linen jacket. Eternal damnation!

Last anyone checked, the Bible told of Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!

Lameass response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if someone asked you to bake a phallus cake for a gay weeding? Should you have The right to refuse?

That depends, do they sell phallus cakes to other customers? If so, then yes, the law would require them to sell one to their gay customers. If it's not a product they sell then they don't need to suddenly start selling it because a customer asked.

Similarly, if they were asked to make a fruitcake wedding cake, but they don't make fruitcake for anyone, then they could legally refuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Hobby Lobby can establish a National Museum of Wedding Cake Art adjacent to the new Binle Museum. I'd love to see the artistry of a cake depicting men riding dinosaurs through the Grand Canyon in 3000 BC.

Enjoy the photos - tell me this isn't an art:


https://www.google.com/search?q=wedding+cake+art&biw=1067&bih=849&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=z6idVaCsJMmjNqrClugJ&ved=0CCQQsAQ

Whether or not it's art is irrelevant. You could argue that the food served at lunch counters in the South in the 60's were art too. I once had a chef tell me that he couldn't serve my kid's Bison burger without the tomato slice because his cooking was "art" and needed to be appreciated in it's "original form".

If a gallery sold sculptures, and someone came in to buy one at the advertised price, but was turned away because of their religion, that would be discrimination and it would be illegal.

If a designer sold dresses, and someone came in to buy one at the advertised price, but was turned away because of their race, that would be discrimination and it would be illegal.

Once you offer something for sale in your business, you lose the right to discriminate against certain buyers. In Oregon, sexual orientation is one of the classes that is protected against this discrimination.

And the baker sold baked goods in the shop to the same individuals.

Race and sexual orientation are different. A dress designer should be forced to design a dress for a transvestite? No.

Muslims were allowed to turn away gay individuals who wanted wedding cakes. I've brought that up numerous times and it's been ignored. Wonder why? Because y'all consider Muslims a protected class too and now are completely perplexed as to which side to take. It's laughable.

I really REALLY want y'all to win though, because you will be forced to design t-shirts for the Klan with the words of their choice. Or T-shirts for Muslims that say something nasty about Jews.

Can you point to the Muslim bakery in Oregon that refused to bake a cake for a gay couple who subsequently brought a complaint? I'd be happy to read the link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What the hell is a Christian bakery anyway? I've had wonderful baguettes from French bakeries, buttery rugelach to die for from Jewish bakeries, fresh cannolis from Italian bakeries... Is there some sort of pride in being a Christian bakery?!? Good hot cross buns? Does Jesus personally bless the muffins every morning?

Does this help? lol

‘I would like the outcome of this to be that any Christians running a business could be allowed to follow their Christian beliefs and principles in the day-to-day running of the business and that they are allowed to make decisions based on that,’ he said.

‘I feel if we don’t take our stand with this case then how can we stand up against it further down the line, certainly from an equality point of view?’

Gareth Lee placed the order several weeks ago at a branch of Ashers in Belfast, one of six shops run by the Northern Ireland-based business. It is named after one of the 12 tribes of Israel. According to the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament, ‘Bread from Asher shall be rich and he shall yield royal dainties.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2685271/Let-run-business-Christian-way-say-bakers-gay-cake-row-Owner-threatened-legal-action-says-determined-make-stand.html
'Let us run our business in a Christian way': Baker threatened with legal action for refusing to make gay cake says he is determined to make a stand

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All this hair-splitting belongs in the gov't arena. A private business can do whatever the heck they want. Freedom of choice is no freedom from consequences, right? LOL

Can they refuse black people? Obviously not. Did you miss the entire civil rights movement?

They weren't refusing to serve gay people. They were refusing a to enter into a contract for a specific type of event.

That changes nothing. Their grounds for refusal is still the same.

This was supposed to have been settled 50 years ago, with a lunch counter in Greensboro NC that refused to serve blacks. This is *NO* different.

The courts and the laws of the land already said they cannot deny service or refuse the contract. It is unacceptable and unlawful for you to try and turn the hands of time backwards to undo that.

The Neanderthals posting in this thread likely don't know that there is a long history of the Bible being used to justify slavery, segregation, lynchings and marital rape. Hopefully they aren't headed to Bubba Gump's tonight because, as we all know, eating shrimp like rabbit, is an abomination. And God forbid if you wear a woolen sweater under your linen jacket. Eternal damnation!

Last anyone checked, the Bible told of Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!

And I came from a rib.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Hobby Lobby can establish a National Museum of Wedding Cake Art adjacent to the new Binle Museum. I'd love to see the artistry of a cake depicting men riding dinosaurs through the Grand Canyon in 3000 BC.

Enjoy the photos - tell me this isn't an art:


https://www.google.com/search?q=wedding+cake+art&biw=1067&bih=849&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=z6idVaCsJMmjNqrClugJ&ved=0CCQQsAQ

It's not an art. Creative expression ends when you are making something for another person's taste. It is a service. Hairdressers also perform a service-- they create a cut based on the client's wishes. Just because bakers have trained to create with their hands doesn't mean they are artists-- the intent is not the same as art.

You could not be more wrong about this.

Lol. Alright, the last pp persuaded me. Such a stunning argument

Funny, none of the cakes in those photos seem to require any endorsement of homosexual marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if someone asked you to bake a phallus cake for a gay weeding? Should you have The right to refuse?

You the right to refuse to provide a service (eg bake an specific cake) but not to provide this service to an specific cake. You can't decide to sell cakes to whites but not to AA, or to gays but not to straight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if someone asked you to bake a phallus cake for a gay weeding? Should you have The right to refuse?

I'd like some gay weeding as my yard is a mess and my current gardener has been quite despondent since the Donald starting running his mouth about the immigration of Mexican rapists.

Is a "gay weeding" some type of male Brazilian wax?

OK...this is funny....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Hobby Lobby can establish a National Museum of Wedding Cake Art adjacent to the new Binle Museum. I'd love to see the artistry of a cake depicting men riding dinosaurs through the Grand Canyon in 3000 BC.

Enjoy the photos - tell me this isn't an art:


https://www.google.com/search?q=wedding+cake+art&biw=1067&bih=849&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=z6idVaCsJMmjNqrClugJ&ved=0CCQQsAQ

It's not an art. Creative expression ends when you are making something for another person's taste. It is a service. Hairdressers also perform a service-- they create a cut based on the client's wishes. Just because bakers have trained to create with their hands doesn't mean they are artists-- the intent is not the same as art.

You could not be more wrong about this.

Lol. Alright, the last pp persuaded me. Such a stunning argument

When someone commissions a cake and tells you what they want, it's up to the cake decorator to execute it. That's an art. Ditto when a hairdresser creates a hairstyle. I can tell my hairdresser I want a golden blonde and long layers, and I guarantee you two people will interpret that differently. Ditto something like an 'updo' for a prom.

Know who isn't an artist? An actor who is working as a waiter. He's actually a waiter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe Hobby Lobby can establish a National Museum of Wedding Cake Art adjacent to the new Binle Museum. I'd love to see the artistry of a cake depicting men riding dinosaurs through the Grand Canyon in 3000 BC.

Enjoy the photos - tell me this isn't an art:


https://www.google.com/search?q=wedding+cake+art&biw=1067&bih=849&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=z6idVaCsJMmjNqrClugJ&ved=0CCQQsAQ

Whether or not it's art is irrelevant. You could argue that the food served at lunch counters in the South in the 60's were art too. I once had a chef tell me that he couldn't serve my kid's Bison burger without the tomato slice because his cooking was "art" and needed to be appreciated in it's "original form".

If a gallery sold sculptures, and someone came in to buy one at the advertised price, but was turned away because of their religion, that would be discrimination and it would be illegal.

If a designer sold dresses, and someone came in to buy one at the advertised price, but was turned away because of their race, that would be discrimination and it would be illegal.

Once you offer something for sale in your business, you lose the right to discriminate against certain buyers. In Oregon, sexual orientation is one of the classes that is protected against this discrimination.

And the baker sold baked goods in the shop to the same individuals.

Race and sexual orientation are different. A dress designer should be forced to design a dress for a transvestite? No.

Muslims were allowed to turn away gay individuals who wanted wedding cakes. I've brought that up numerous times and it's been ignored. Wonder why? Because y'all consider Muslims a protected class too and now are completely perplexed as to which side to take. It's laughable.

I really REALLY want y'all to win though, because you will be forced to design t-shirts for the Klan with the words of their choice. Or T-shirts for Muslims that say something nasty about Jews.

Can you point to the Muslim bakery in Oregon that refused to bake a cake for a gay couple who subsequently brought a complaint? I'd be happy to read the link.

You can feel free to google yourself for the video of the Muslim bakeries who turned down the orders for the cakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if someone asked you to bake a phallus cake for a gay weeding? Should you have The right to refuse?

That depends, do they sell phallus cakes to other customers? If so, then yes, the law would require them to sell one to their gay customers. If it's not a product they sell then they don't need to suddenly start selling it because a customer asked.

Similarly, if they were asked to make a fruitcake wedding cake, but they don't make fruitcake for anyone, then they could legally refuse.

Sell one out of the case is different than taking a special order.