What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

After a certain age, a never married guy becomes less desirable than his divorced counterparts. Not having kids is one thing. A man of a certain age is perceived as noncommittal is a turnoff to most women.

But if you truly don't want a family, so what?



This is questionable. I think ex-wives, step-children, and child-support are much more of a turnoff for many.

For a 34 year old, sure. A single 34 year old woman would prefer the never-married 34 year old man over a 34 year old divorced man with 3 small kids, an ex-wife very much in the picture, and $8,000 a month in child support for the next 18 years. all things being equal

But. A never-married 57 year old man sends off blaring alarm bells with red rocket flares, I assure you. The rich ones (and there are some in the silicon valley / NYC finance world) will nevertheless land a fertile gold-digger younger wife who immediately has 2 children with him.

+1. There can always be legitimate reason for why a 57 year old man is unmarried (was in a coma for 10 years, was stranded on a desert island for 15, etc). However, in most cases, its because they aren't the type of people who can be in a relationship successfully. Can someone who couldn't manage a relationship successfully before start to age 57? Sure. But in most cases, people are set in their ways by that age, so the likelihood is small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

After a certain age, a never married guy becomes less desirable than his divorced counterparts. Not having kids is one thing. A man of a certain age is perceived as noncommittal is a turnoff to most women.

But if you truly don't want a family, so what?



This is questionable. I think ex-wives, step-children, and child-support are much more of a turnoff for many.

For a 34 year old, sure. A single 34 year old woman would prefer the never-married 34 year old man over a 34 year old divorced man with 3 small kids, an ex-wife very much in the picture, and $8,000 a month in child support for the next 18 years. all things being equal

But. A never-married 57 year old man sends off blaring alarm bells with red rocket flares, I assure you. The rich ones (and there are some in the silicon valley / NYC finance world) will nevertheless land a fertile gold-digger younger wife who immediately has 2 children with him.

+1. There can always be legitimate reason for why a 57 year old man is unmarried (was in a coma for 10 years, was stranded on a desert island for 15, etc). However, in most cases, its because they aren't the type of people who can be in a relationship successfully. Can someone who couldn't manage a relationship successfully before start to age 57? Sure. But in most cases, people are set in their ways by that age, so the likelihood is small.

Eh, if that's the only reason for not getting married OP could just tell a white lie about being divorced/widowed. Seems like a pretty easy lie to tell if there's no alimony or children involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

After a certain age, a never married guy becomes less desirable than his divorced counterparts. Not having kids is one thing. A man of a certain age is perceived as noncommittal is a turnoff to most women.

But if you truly don't want a family, so what?



This is questionable. I think ex-wives, step-children, and child-support are much more of a turnoff for many.

For a 34 year old, sure. A single 34 year old woman would prefer the never-married 34 year old man over a 34 year old divorced man with 3 small kids, an ex-wife very much in the picture, and $8,000 a month in child support for the next 18 years. all things being equal

But. A never-married 57 year old man sends off blaring alarm bells with red rocket flares, I assure you. The rich ones (and there are some in the silicon valley / NYC finance world) will nevertheless land a fertile gold-digger younger wife who immediately has 2 children with him.

Good news, life is not always this black-and-white. A 57-year old may not have married for a variety of reasons. Making one data point a deciding factor in choosing a partner is not everybody's cup of tea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

After a certain age, a never married guy becomes less desirable than his divorced counterparts. Not having kids is one thing. A man of a certain age is perceived as noncommittal is a turnoff to most women.

But if you truly don't want a family, so what?



This is questionable. I think ex-wives, step-children, and child-support are much more of a turnoff for many.

For a 34 year old, sure. A single 34 year old woman would prefer the never-married 34 year old man over a 34 year old divorced man with 3 small kids, an ex-wife very much in the picture, and $8,000 a month in child support for the next 18 years. all things being equal

But. A never-married 57 year old man sends off blaring alarm bells with red rocket flares, I assure you. The rich ones (and there are some in the silicon valley / NYC finance world) will nevertheless land a fertile gold-digger younger wife who immediately has 2 children with him.

Good news, life is not always this black-and-white. A 57-year old may not have married for a variety of reasons. Making one data point a deciding factor in choosing a partner is not everybody's cup of tea.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's the thing, I don't want to just date. Like most people, I see myself in a long-term monogamous relationship that is fulfilling.

Unfortunately most women in my date range (+/-10 years) either have kids or want them. So sometimes it feels isolated and like I might lose out on a potentially solid partner just because of this.

I can give or take on the question of marriage although I see no point of legalizing a relationship if there are no plans for bringing kids into the world.

However, is it wise or fair to compromise on something so serious as having kids? Regrets further on, or will I suddenly have an epiphany once they arrive?


OP

If you don't want to have children, you should be upfront without your potential partners. There is nothing more crushing to a woman than to find out that her DH doesn't want children AFTER marriage. My DH stalled on having DC2, and I would have divorced him for that. Luckily for him, he came back to his senses.

There is nothing wrong with a marriage or long-term partnership where both partners do not want children. You should be aware, however, that it would limit your pool of women because most of us do want to procreate.

[Anonymous]

If you are absolutely certain you don't want children, go ahead and have a vasectomy, and be upfront about it when you date. That should weed out not only women who affirmatively want children, but also women who may foolishly think you'll change your mind later.

But in my mind, it's fair that if YOU don't want to have children, then YOU should be the one making sure they don't happen. If this option gives you pause, that means you aren't REALLY sure you don't want children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So it sounds as if children is the sticking point. You don't mind the wife, but you do mind the kid hassle.

I can't imagine that any man or woman would regret the children they have begotten. Of course kids make you get out of your selfish mode, of course they're a ton of work. But... they're also a joy. As babies they have cute giggles and coos. As little kids they trust you and look up to you and say they love you and that you're the best in the world. Then they hate you. Then, if you've done your job right, they come back and ask for professional advice, ask for parenting advice, and say thank you for raising me right. And you get grandchildren if you're lucky, who you can spoil rotten like you never did with your kids.

If that doesn't appeal to you, I suggest you make it quite clear to your partner. So many threads on DCUM dealing with frustrated women who somehow thought their boyfriend who didn't want kids would change his mind...

Are you kidding me.

+1 My mother regrets having my sister & me, a fact that's been clear to us since we were children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

After a certain age, a never married guy becomes less desirable than his divorced counterparts. Not having kids is one thing. A man of a certain age is perceived as noncommittal is a turnoff to most women.

But if you truly don't want a family, so what?



This is questionable. I think ex-wives, step-children, and child-support are much more of a turnoff for many.

For a 34 year old, sure. A single 34 year old woman would prefer the never-married 34 year old man over a 34 year old divorced man with 3 small kids, an ex-wife very much in the picture, and $8,000 a month in child support for the next 18 years. all things being equal

But. A never-married 57 year old man sends off blaring alarm bells with red rocket flares, I assure you. The rich ones (and there are some in the silicon valley / NYC finance world) will nevertheless land a fertile gold-digger younger wife who immediately has 2 children with him.

+1. There can always be legitimate reason for why a 57 year old man is unmarried (was in a coma for 10 years, was stranded on a desert island for 15, etc). However, in most cases, its because they aren't the type of people who can be in a relationship successfully. Can someone who couldn't manage a relationship successfully before start to age 57? Sure. But in most cases, people are set in their ways by that age, so the likelihood is small.

One could argue that a man (or woman, for that matter) who's divorced couldn't manage a relationship successfully, either.

[Anonymous]

OP, what do you offer a longterm steady girlfriend? It sounds like you want the "wife experience" without the wife. It doesn't work that way. All of life is uncertainty, just like every meal you eat produces poop. There is nothing wrong with what you want, just don't expect a woman without kids to be happy being a long term girlfriend. One final note, if work and general life stress you out, seek help. You may be in the wrong job or have some health issues. Kids and work and a wife shouldn't lead to drama and stress. Get off the internet and find some help along with some healthier friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 36 year old woman. I don't have kids and don't want kids. I'd like a long-term relationship but don't particularly care if it includes marriage or not. There may not be many of us, but we exist.

It seems like there are many people here making us out to be strange creatures walking around with emotional issues that would prevent intimacy.

I posed the question because I thought I was somehow setting myself up to miss out on the 'greener grass.' That's obviously not the case and so far it seems there are three types out there:

1. Those like you (potentially us) who can happily live without NEEDING to marry or have kids.

2. Those who think marriage and parenting are the gold standard for relationships and being family oriented, respectively; any deviation is a social mutation.

3. Those (like me) who are mentally and emotionally ambivalent; I don't NEED kids to feel complete/happy, but would only do it makes the woman I am in love with happy.

So number 3 highlights the 'trouble' because I am not sure if I will have regrets when the challenging times set in, or will suddenly want more after the first pregnancy. It is a very serious risk to take, so safe bet to avoid and say "not for me" altogether.

So for persons who have done parenting, did you do it because you/your relationship felt incomplete without it, or were you like number 3 going in?

That's my purpose for starting this thread, not to be told I am some social mutation because of my disposition.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 36 year old woman. I don't have kids and don't want kids. I'd like a long-term relationship but don't particularly care if it includes marriage or not. There may not be many of us, but we exist.

It seems like there are many people here making us out to be strange creatures walking around with emotional issues that would prevent intimacy.

I posed the question because I thought I was somehow setting myself up to miss out on the 'greener grass.' That's obviously not the case and so far it seems there are three types out there:

1. Those like you (potentially us) who can happily live without NEEDING to marry or have kids.

2. Those who think marriage and parenting are the gold standard for relationships and being family oriented, respectively; any deviation is a social mutation.

3. Those (like me) who are mentally and emotionally ambivalent; I don't NEED kids to feel complete/happy, but would only do it makes the woman I am in love with happy.

So number 3 highlights the 'trouble' because I am not sure if I will have regrets when the challenging times set in, or will suddenly want more after the first pregnancy. It is a very serious risk to take, so safe bet to avoid and say "not for me" altogether.

So for persons who have done parenting, did you do it because you/your relationship felt incomplete without it, or were you like number 3 going in?

That's my purpose for starting this thread, not to be told I am some social mutation because of my disposition.

Thanks.

OP (goes without saying)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are absolutely certain you don't want children, go ahead and have a vasectomy, and be upfront about it when you date. That should weed out not only women who affirmatively want children, but also women who may foolishly think you'll change your mind later.

But in my mind, it's fair that if YOU don't want to have children, then YOU should be the one making sure they don't happen. If this option gives you pause, that means you aren't REALLY sure you don't want children.

+1! Seriously. This is truly the best way to make sure you find a woman who really doesn't want to have kids and is cool with it. It's also a great way to make you think whether you really don't want to have kids, and to not have to worry that you'll every accidentally have one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 36 year old woman. I don't have kids and don't want kids. I'd like a long-term relationship but don't particularly care if it includes marriage or not. There may not be many of us, but we exist.

It seems like there are many people here making us out to be strange creatures walking around with emotional issues that would prevent intimacy.

I posed the question because I thought I was somehow setting myself up to miss out on the 'greener grass.' That's obviously not the case and so far it seems there are three types out there:

1. Those like you (potentially us) who can happily live without NEEDING to marry or have kids.

2. Those who think marriage and parenting are the gold standard for relationships and being family oriented, respectively; any deviation is a social mutation.

3. Those (like me) who are mentally and emotionally ambivalent; I don't NEED kids to feel complete/happy, but would only do it makes the woman I am in love with happy.

So number 3 highlights the 'trouble' because I am not sure if I will have regrets when the challenging times set in, or will suddenly want more after the first pregnancy. It is a very serious risk to take, so safe bet to avoid and say "not for me" altogether.

So for persons who have done parenting, did you do it because you/your relationship felt incomplete without it, or were you like number 3 going in?

That's my purpose for starting this thread, not to be told I am some social mutation because of my disposition.

Thanks.

Honestly, these questions make you sound socially immature. If having kids would make the woman you love happy, wouldn't that also make you happy? Marriage, or long-term relationships without marriage, are a two-way street. It's not about you sacrificing/compromising to make someone else happy -- it's about both of you working together to build a life together. When (not if) the challenging times set in, you need to examine whether what you have built together is worth it -- not just whether the sacrifices you have made have been worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is apropos:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/04/02/dont-be-a-bachelor-why-married-men-work-harder-and-smarter-and-make-more-money/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na

This is from today's Washington Post
Don’t be a bachelor: Why married men work harder, smarter and make more money
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/04/02/dont-be-a-bachelor-why-married-men-work-harder-and-smarter-and-make-more-money/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na

I'm an old married guy and this article had me howling. Basically, single guys are lazy layabouts. When men get married they stress about money so they work hard and chase promotions. Of course, if they divorce, then they start working less.
It's written by a group at UVA that is promoting marriage as a cure all for society's ills. God bless 'em.

Marriage has been awful for our finances and after more than a decade of wedded bliss I have never gotten back to earning as much as I did when I was single and had the time to throw myself into work. Oh well, somebody has to screw up the data and in this case, it's me.

I'd love to hear what the OP thinks of this story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a 36 year old woman. I don't have kids and don't want kids. I'd like a long-term relationship but don't particularly care if it includes marriage or not. There may not be many of us, but we exist.

It seems like there are many people here making us out to be strange creatures walking around with emotional issues that would prevent intimacy.

I posed the question because I thought I was somehow setting myself up to miss out on the 'greener grass.' That's obviously not the case and so far it seems there are three types out there:

1. Those like you (potentially us) who can happily live without NEEDING to marry or have kids.

2. Those who think marriage and parenting are the gold standard for relationships and being family oriented, respectively; any deviation is a social mutation.

3. Those (like me) who are mentally and emotionally ambivalent; I don't NEED kids to feel complete/happy, but would only do it makes the woman I am in love with happy.

So number 3 highlights the 'trouble' because I am not sure if I will have regrets when the challenging times set in, or will suddenly want more after the first pregnancy. It is a very serious risk to take, so safe bet to avoid and say "not for me" altogether.

So for persons who have done parenting, did you do it because you/your relationship felt incomplete without it, or were you like number 3 going in?

That's my purpose for starting this thread, not to be told I am some social mutation because of my disposition.

Thanks.

So have the vasectomy and remove the risk.