An interesting take on radical Islam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:You, again! This is not the first time and I bet it won't be the last that you are following me from thread to thread bringing your grievances about Muslim women's equality and women's captives and again talking about a version of the facts that only exists in your head. Give it up! That ship has sailed, move on!

To all accusing me of proselytizing, promoting my version of x or y, with your limited vision, steadfast opinions and misplaced assumptions, you really are not qualified to determine what my motivations are, why I choose to engage in some debates and not in others, or why I am here. May I remind you politely that you do not know me, you are not in my head and you don't have a magic ball. You think things are a certain way due to the factors you focus on because you judge every single one of my posts based on your own prejudices. You distort things that I say, you misquote me, you misquote the Qur'an, you create your own narrative of who you think I am, what I say and replay it on every single thread, maybe you wish that I would just disappear, maybe you wish to silence me and have me hide behind my hijab or niqab and bow to your glorious ideas of western supremacy and eastern savagery. You want to promote your false narrative of evil Islam and oppressed brainwashed Muslim women who need to be saved by western freedom and values as if we Muslim women, were all passive victims of our beliefs, religion and circumstances. No wonder I puzzle you, no wonder you accuse me of being a Man because I could never be a free woman. No wonder you want to see me gone, because I show you the face of Islam you have been trying to burry for so long, I am a proud Muslim woman who loves, adores Islam, I am free, I choose Islam every single day, I love the Qu'ran and the state it has elevated me to. Every single thing that is good in me, in my life is thanks to this Qur'an and Al Islam. Every single fault, dilemma, bad character of my humble self that I try to combat is being combatted by this amazing Qu'ran and the teachings of the Man who was sent as a mercy to the world, Prophet Muhammad (saw), the perfect man. Yes, dear poster (s), I know you would have loved me so much more, had I come here and bash Islam for all of my misery, all of my limitations, and every evil in the world, you would have marched and protested with me. You would have embraced me with open arms and allow me in your "club" never questioning what my motives were or might be. But I am the opposite, the face of Islam you and every media outlet tries to hide, as if we do not exist, as if educated women like us who choose Islam every single day and have a genuine love of this religion do not exist, as if we can not advocate for ourselves based on our ideals and values, as if I must be the exception and not the norm, worse I must actually be paid to post on this forum, because clearly, I must not exist. You even accused me of being multiple people, I read you and I laugh but then I am sad for you, sad that you actually believe this and this is your reality, and I am sad because I too think that you are brainwashed. You desperately want to hold on to your false narrative, because otherwise, you might just have to change your worldview. I remind you of this whenever you read me, and that is why you want me gone.Let me be clear, you are wasting your time. I am not going anywhere and I will discuss and interject in any thread that sparks my interest, be it on Politics, Religion, Israel's policies, Islam or otherwise. Your words will not chase me away. One more thing, the fact that you think that a parenting forum would be the #1 choice for someone wanting to convert people to Islam is ridiculously crazy! To the PP who defended me, thank you for being open minded, your understanding and humanity.

Now that this is out the way, let's go back to more important things. Like a great Western 1st lady once said, "great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people". Don't make this discussion about me, it was about an interesting take on radical Islam.

Me "again"? You yourself have been here all along, posting the things that I'm just responding to. Also, you're probably responding to half a dozen posters - I wasn't involved with the miniskirt discussion, for example, or many of the other discussions.

I'm actually the one who said that *I don't know why you're here* (i.e., do you sincerely want to explain your faith vs. proselytizing), but that I don't care as long as you avoid dishonesty. It speaks volumes, however, that others besides me are apparently sure you're proselytizing, don't you think?

Speaking of "small minds," you're the one who's always going with the ad hominems. Like right above, where you accuse me of being here constantly, of having a limited vision, of twisting things, and of having a small mind. You can certainly ad hominem with the best of them!

FWIW, I just read the WaPo link that somebody else posted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html) although I had seen it yesterday and just skimmed. The PP who put it up wanted us to note the part about how Muslim apologists like you are more interested in honor than in questioning things that might need to be questioned. But there's something else about that piece that impressed me much more: it was written by a Muslim woman who's arguing for questioning the role of Muslim women in the scriptures, in the mosque where she wants to pray side by side with men, and even their right to orgasms. Now there's a face of Muslim women that I can really get enthusiastic about!

That WaPo article is from 2015. It was written by a woman named Asra Nomani. She and I grew up together in the same neighborhood. She was a whack job as a preteen and she remains a whack job today. She is the laughing stock of the muslim majority. She was an angry kid and you can still sense the anger in her today.

I will say this - in the Kaba where Muslims do their Hajj pilgrimage, there are no clear delineations of where women and men pray. We walk around the kaba together. We may end up praying side by side, although we make sure to maintain a respectful distance between men and women. This is such a huge issue for Miss Nomani but it's a non issue in Islam. Whether you pray side by side or whatever will not prevent you from getting into the gates of Heaven. Her words, however, are often divisive and THAT is what incites Muslim fury. Funny that you would find one of her wacky articles. Or maybe not so funny?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW, I just read the WaPo link that somebody else posted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html) although I had seen it yesterday and just skimmed. The PP who put it up wanted us to note the part about how Muslim apologists like you are more interested in honor than in questioning things that might need to be questioned. But there's something else about that piece that impressed me much more: it was written by a Muslim woman who's arguing for questioning the role of Muslim women in the scriptures, in the mosque where she wants to pray side by side with men, and even their right to orgasms. Now there's a face of Muslim women that I can really get enthusiastic about!

Asra Nomani is questioning the right of Muslim women to orgasms? You sure?

Of all the Abrahamic religions, Islam seems the most protective of a woman's right to orgasms and sex. In fact, in Shia Islam, most clerics support the ruling that not having sex with your wife for four months is a sin and grounds for divorce.

It's in the article, in the context of female genital mutilation. Which is not an Islamic thing, as we know, but which does occur in many cultures that practice Islam.

If it's not an Islamic thing, why bring it up? Do you want Islam to say, it isn't me then, and it isn't me now, either?

Copts in Egypt circumcize too, and no one's picking on them.

[Anonymous]

21:59 here. Okay…my mistake. Its not from 2015. But the author is still just as nutty as she ever was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW, I just read the WaPo link that somebody else posted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html) although I had seen it yesterday and just skimmed. The PP who put it up wanted us to note the part about how Muslim apologists like you are more interested in honor than in questioning things that might need to be questioned. But there's something else about that piece that impressed me much more: it was written by a Muslim woman who's arguing for questioning the role of Muslim women in the scriptures, in the mosque where she wants to pray side by side with men, and even their right to orgasms. Now there's a face of Muslim women that I can really get enthusiastic about!

Asra Nomani is questioning the right of Muslim women to orgasms? You sure?

Of all the Abrahamic religions, Islam seems the most protective of a woman's right to orgasms and sex. In fact, in Shia Islam, most clerics support the ruling that not having sex with your wife for four months is a sin and grounds for divorce.

And you don't find that the least bit creepy and intrusive?

I want God and the government in MY bedroom.

How is that creepy and intrusive? That ruling says, women, sex in marriage is your right. If you're not getting your due and the lack of sex is killing you, you may divorce your husband. It doesn't say you HAVE to divorce. It says lack of sex is acceptable grounds for divorce for women.

You want God and government in YOUR bedroom? For real?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW, I just read the WaPo link that somebody else posted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html) although I had seen it yesterday and just skimmed. The PP who put it up wanted us to note the part about how Muslim apologists like you are more interested in honor than in questioning things that might need to be questioned. But there's something else about that piece that impressed me much more: it was written by a Muslim woman who's arguing for questioning the role of Muslim women in the scriptures, in the mosque where she wants to pray side by side with men, and even their right to orgasms. Now there's a face of Muslim women that I can really get enthusiastic about!

Asra Nomani is questioning the right of Muslim women to orgasms? You sure?

Of all the Abrahamic religions, Islam seems the most protective of a woman's right to orgasms and sex. In fact, in Shia Islam, most clerics support the ruling that not having sex with your wife for four months is a sin and grounds for divorce.

It's in the article, in the context of female genital mutilation. Which is not an Islamic thing, as we know, but which does occur in many cultures that practice Islam.

If it's not an Islamic thing, why bring it up? Do you want Islam to say, it isn't me then, and it isn't me now, either?

Copts in Egypt circumcize too, and no one's picking on them.

For the people who are not aware- Copts are Egyptian Christians. In the past, most of their community resided in the South of Egypt (Upper Egypt), where there is a very insular, patriarchal culture, and indeed, circumcision of females was practiced. However, within the past few decades their numbers have dwindled as most people have gone (fled?) to metropolitan areas like Cairo and Alexandria, or gone abroad. Maybe no one is picking on Copts on this issue because in the past few years they have suffered through pogroms, having their churches burned, bombed, and looted, murder, kidnapping, having their businesses burned and looted, being run over by military tanks, etc. By their Muslim countrymen. So maybe that is why people aren't spotlighting that particular community for criticism. They have bigger problems, so to speak.

Meanwhile, my understanding is that the Church and other organizations are working very very hard to let people know that this practice is wrong. It is hard to eliminate these kinds of practices that are ingrained in the culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW, I just read the WaPo link that somebody else posted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html) although I had seen it yesterday and just skimmed. The PP who put it up wanted us to note the part about how Muslim apologists like you are more interested in honor than in questioning things that might need to be questioned. But there's something else about that piece that impressed me much more: it was written by a Muslim woman who's arguing for questioning the role of Muslim women in the scriptures, in the mosque where she wants to pray side by side with men, and even their right to orgasms. Now there's a face of Muslim women that I can really get enthusiastic about!

Asra Nomani is questioning the right of Muslim women to orgasms? You sure?

Of all the Abrahamic religions, Islam seems the most protective of a woman's right to orgasms and sex. In fact, in Shia Islam, most clerics support the ruling that not having sex with your wife for four months is a sin and grounds for divorce.

It's in the article, in the context of female genital mutilation. Which is not an Islamic thing, as we know, but which does occur in many cultures that practice Islam.

If it's not an Islamic thing, why bring it up? Do you want Islam to say, it isn't me then, and it isn't me now, either?

Copts in Egypt circumcize too, and no one's picking on them.

For the people who are not aware- Copts are Egyptian Christians. In the past, most of their community resided in the South of Egypt (Upper Egypt), where there is a very insular, patriarchal culture, and indeed, circumcision of females was practiced. However, within the past few decades their numbers have dwindled as most people have gone (fled?) to metropolitan areas like Cairo and Alexandria, or gone abroad. Maybe no one is picking on Copts on this issue because in the past few years they have suffered through pogroms, having their churches burned, bombed, and looted, murder, kidnapping, having their businesses burned and looted, being run over by military tanks, etc. By their Muslim countrymen. So maybe that is why people aren't spotlighting that particular community for criticism. They have bigger problems, so to speak.

Meanwhile, my understanding is that the Church and other organizations are working very very hard to let people know that this practice is wrong. It is hard to eliminate these kinds of practices that are ingrained in the culture.

You're saying when disenfranchised people mutilate their womenfolk's genitals, it's OK?

Again - why take a common problem and hang it on Islam, which neither condones it, nor denies the woman her explicit right to sexual satisfaction in a marital relationship? I mean, poor Copts and all, but FGM is not a Muslim issue. It just isn't. And neither is the lack of right to orgasms. Nomani made that bit up.

[Anonymous]

Back to the original post ... I heard Maajid Nawaz on NPR the other day and found it incredibly enlightening. Would love to read his book. And I hope more people get to hear him. If you haven't, click on the OP's first link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That WaPo article is from 2015. It was written by a woman named Asra Nomani. She and I grew up together in the same neighborhood. She was a whack job as a preteen and she remains a whack job today. She is the laughing stock of the muslim majority. She was an angry kid and you can still sense the anger in her today.

I will say this - in the Kaba where Muslims do their Hajj pilgrimage, there are no clear delineations of where women and men pray. We walk around the kaba together. We may end up praying side by side, although we make sure to maintain a respectful distance between men and women. This is such a huge issue for Miss Nomani but it's a non issue in Islam. Whether you pray side by side or whatever will not prevent you from getting into the gates of Heaven. Her words, however, are often divisive and THAT is what incites Muslim fury. Funny that you would find one of her wacky articles. Or maybe not so funny?

I'm having a really hard time seeing logic anywhere amidst all your accusations that Nomani is an angry whack job who incites fury. It sounds like you're saying: the nature of women's religious lives is a "non-issue" because they'll get to heaven without side-by-side praying. Isn't that like saying, all other inequalities in peoples' mortal lives (like income, education) are "non-issues" because they'll get to heaven despite them? So those kids in NoVa that she mentions, and the Muslim woman preacher in California that she mentions, are whack jobs too? And then you go on to talk out of both sides of your mouth, writing as though the possibility of praying side by side with men on hajj, if you can afford it, is an example of what, progressivity maybe, at the same time that you're dismissing this as a non-issue -- which is it? FYI, there are strains of Judaism and Catholicism that allow women preachers, because apparently many people from different walks of life are starting to think that a woman's experience during worship is an important part if her religious life. I wasn't the one who first brought that article here, although I was impressed by it (and it's from two days ago, not 10 years ago). I'm also impressed by Nomani's article about a reform movement meant I had to wipe your spittle off my screen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW, I just read the WaPo link that somebody else posted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html) although I had seen it yesterday and just skimmed. The PP who put it up wanted us to note the part about how Muslim apologists like you are more interested in honor than in questioning things that might need to be questioned. But there's something else about that piece that impressed me much more: it was written by a Muslim woman who's arguing for questioning the role of Muslim women in the scriptures, in the mosque where she wants to pray side by side with men, and even their right to orgasms. Now there's a face of Muslim women that I can really get enthusiastic about!

Asra Nomani is questioning the right of Muslim women to orgasms? You sure?

Of all the Abrahamic religions, Islam seems the most protective of a woman's right to orgasms and sex. In fact, in Shia Islam, most clerics support the ruling that not having sex with your wife for four months is a sin and grounds for divorce.

It's in the article, in the context of female genital mutilation. Which is not an Islamic thing, as we know, but which does occur in many cultures that practice Islam.

If it's not an Islamic thing, why bring it up? Do you want Islam to say, it isn't me then, and it isn't me now, either?

Copts in Egypt circumcize too, and no one's picking on them.

For the people who are not aware- Copts are Egyptian Christians. In the past, most of their community resided in the South of Egypt (Upper Egypt), where there is a very insular, patriarchal culture, and indeed, circumcision of females was practiced. However, within the past few decades their numbers have dwindled as most people have gone (fled?) to metropolitan areas like Cairo and Alexandria, or gone abroad. Maybe no one is picking on Copts on this issue because in the past few years they have suffered through pogroms, having their churches burned, bombed, and looted, murder, kidnapping, having their businesses burned and looted, being run over by military tanks, etc. By their Muslim countrymen. So maybe that is why people aren't spotlighting that particular community for criticism. They have bigger problems, so to speak.

Meanwhile, my understanding is that the Church and other organizations are working very very hard to let people know that this practice is wrong. It is hard to eliminate these kinds of practices that are ingrained in the culture.

You're saying when disenfranchised people mutilate their womenfolk's genitals, it's OK?

Again - why take a common problem and hang it on Islam, which neither condones it, nor denies the woman her explicit right to sexual satisfaction in a marital relationship? I mean, poor Copts and all, but FGM is not a Muslim issue. It just isn't. And neither is the lack of right to orgasms. Nomani made that bit up.

That wasn't my post. I agree that FGM isn't an Islam issue. But I don't think PP said anything like what you're putting in her mouth. She never said FGM among the Copts was "OK," only that there might be reasons that when people think of the Copts today, this isn't the first thing that comes to mind at the moment. She actually mentioned the Copts are trying to disassociate FGM from religion, and I think she was saying that she supports anything in Islam that disassociates Islam from FGM. No matter. We can all agree that FGM is not an Islam issue, but boy, by going nuts over this tiny bit of Nomani's article, Muslim PP has sure turned the conversation away from Nomani's broader discussion of Islamic reform movements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That WaPo article is from 2015. It was written by a woman named Asra Nomani. She and I grew up together in the same neighborhood. She was a whack job as a preteen and she remains a whack job today. She is the laughing stock of the muslim majority. She was an angry kid and you can still sense the anger in her today.

I will say this - in the Kaba where Muslims do their Hajj pilgrimage, there are no clear delineations of where women and men pray. We walk around the kaba together. We may end up praying side by side, although we make sure to maintain a respectful distance between men and women. This is such a huge issue for Miss Nomani but it's a non issue in Islam. Whether you pray side by side or whatever will not prevent you from getting into the gates of Heaven. Her words, however, are often divisive and THAT is what incites Muslim fury. Funny that you would find one of her wacky articles. Or maybe not so funny?

I'm having a really hard time seeing logic anywhere amidst all your accusations that Nomani is an angry whack job who incites fury. It sounds like you're saying: the nature of women's religious lives is a "non-issue" because they'll get to heaven without side-by-side praying. Isn't that like saying, all other inequalities in peoples' mortal lives (like income, education) are "non-issues" because they'll get to heaven despite them? So those kids in NoVa that she mentions, and the Muslim woman preacher in California that she mentions, are whack jobs too? And then you go on to talk out of both sides of your mouth, writing as though the possibility of praying side by side with men on hajj, if you can afford it, is an example of what, progressivity maybe, at the same time that you're dismissing this as a non-issue -- which is it? FYI, there are strains of Judaism and Catholicism that allow women preachers, because apparently many people from different walks of life are starting to think that a woman's experience during worship is an important part if her religious life. I wasn't the one who first brought that article here, although I was impressed by it (and it's from two days ago, not 10 years ago). I'm also impressed by Nomani's article about a reform movement meant I had to wipe your spittle off my screen.

^^^ I meant strains of Christianity not Catholicism. Although I think there are movements in Cathilicism, too, to give women bigger roles at the altar.

[Anonymous]

If fgm.is a widespread practice in north african Muslim.communities then Muslims everywhere should seek to end the practice. As a Christian I am against it in any community, including Coptic. As a human, I do see it as my problem.
Whatever is written about sexual satisfaction I doubt hadizi women getting raped see it as such. Again, condemnation is warranted. It may not be YOUR version of Islam, but its someone's. In college we had take back the night. If its not Islam then take back Islam. And frankly, with the fundamentals of gender inequality at play in most Islamic communities, such as women excessively covering themselves, sex separation so no one actually knows/aooreciates the other sex outside of family - id start there..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW, I just read the WaPo link that somebody else posted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html) although I had seen it yesterday and just skimmed. The PP who put it up wanted us to note the part about how Muslim apologists like you are more interested in honor than in questioning things that might need to be questioned. But there's something else about that piece that impressed me much more: it was written by a Muslim woman who's arguing for questioning the role of Muslim women in the scriptures, in the mosque where she wants to pray side by side with men, and even their right to orgasms. Now there's a face of Muslim women that I can really get enthusiastic about!

Asra Nomani is questioning the right of Muslim women to orgasms? You sure?

Of all the Abrahamic religions, Islam seems the most protective of a woman's right to orgasms and sex. In fact, in Shia Islam, most clerics support the ruling that not having sex with your wife for four months is a sin and grounds for divorce.

And you don't find that the least bit creepy and intrusive?

I want God and the government in MY bedroom.

How is that creepy and intrusive? That ruling says, women, sex in marriage is your right. If you're not getting your due and the lack of sex is killing you, you may divorce your husband. It doesn't say you HAVE to divorce. It says lack of sex is acceptable grounds for divorce for women.

You want God and government in YOUR bedroom? For real?

It's called sarcasm, but it's often lost on these boards b/c there's always so much going on.

To clarify, no, I don't want anyone in my bedroom other than my partner.


But yes, I do think it's creepy for religion to create rules around my life - especially my sex life. As a woman, I shouldn't need religious rules to ALLOW me to divorce. It should be my decision to do so if I'm unhappy- or worse, abused.

That's my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW, I just read the WaPo link that somebody else posted (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-the-honor-brigade-an-organized-campaign-to-silence-critics-of-islam/2015/01/16/0b002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html) although I had seen it yesterday and just skimmed. The PP who put it up wanted us to note the part about how Muslim apologists like you are more interested in honor than in questioning things that might need to be questioned. But there's something else about that piece that impressed me much more: it was written by a Muslim woman who's arguing for questioning the role of Muslim women in the scriptures, in the mosque where she wants to pray side by side with men, and even their right to orgasms. Now there's a face of Muslim women that I can really get enthusiastic about!

Asra Nomani is questioning the right of Muslim women to orgasms? You sure?

Of all the Abrahamic religions, Islam seems the most protective of a woman's right to orgasms and sex. In fact, in Shia Islam, most clerics support the ruling that not having sex with your wife for four months is a sin and grounds for divorce.

And you don't find that the least bit creepy and intrusive?

I want God and the government in MY bedroom.

How is that creepy and intrusive? That ruling says, women, sex in marriage is your right. If you're not getting your due and the lack of sex is killing you, you may divorce your husband. It doesn't say you HAVE to divorce. It says lack of sex is acceptable grounds for divorce for women.

You want God and government in YOUR bedroom? For real?

It's called sarcasm, but it's often lost on these boards b/c there's always so much going on.

To clarify, no, I don't want anyone in my bedroom other than my partner.


But yes, I do think it's creepy for religion to create rules around my life - especially my sex life. As a woman, I shouldn't need religious rules to ALLOW me to divorce. It should be my decision to do so if I'm unhappy- or worse, abused.

That's my point.

forgot to add this - If the ruling says -

. . . women, sex in marriage is your right

. - then God is indeed in your bedroom.

[Anonymous]

That WaPo article is from 2015. It was written by a woman named Asra Nomani. She and I grew up together in the same neighborhood. She was a whack job as a preteen and she remains a whack job today. She is the laughing stock of the muslim majority. She was an angry kid and you can still sense the anger in her today.

I will say this - in the Kaba where Muslims do their Hajj pilgrimage, there are no clear delineations of where women and men pray. We walk around the kaba together. We may end up praying side by side, although we make sure to maintain a respectful distance between men and women. This is such a huge issue for Miss Nomani but it's a non issue in Islam. Whether you pray side by side or whatever will not prevent you from getting into the gates of Heaven. Her words, however, are often divisive and THAT is what incites Muslim fury. Funny that you would find one of her wacky articles. Or maybe not so funny?

How is SHE the whack job? You're the one who's been desensitized to the plight of women in Islam. And while in the Kaba, things may be different, there are rules of separation btw the genders.

Why is she a whack job for becoming angry over that? same can be said for the Orthodox Jews, for that matter . . .

If you wish to raise your daughters to be subservient, then you have my blessing. But religions - like people - need to evolve. Personally, I think they just need to disappear. But if they're here to stay, then a push toward equality should be the number one priority.

[Anonymous]

I dont feel sad for women in these societies but also for men. How are they taught to see their mothers, their sisters? How do you grow up when sexes can't mingle/socialize? Generations of little boys being distorted in the natural ways men and women interrelate.