Black moms and hitting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White lady here. I grew up lower MC in a heavily Latino neighborhood. Everyone spanked and hit their kids. Fast forward to now- I am well off and guess what? Most my friends who are also well-off spank or hit their kids! They just don't admit to it as freely and won't do it in public. I believe the higher the SES, the more things are done in private. That's my hypotheses and I am sticking to it.

Clearly higher SES individuals spank less than lower status families. I know very few people that spank their kids, and the data bear this out:

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/090924_spanking.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759998/

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP36.pdf

Sorry but these are self-reported.

(FYI. I am an anti-spanking, as in it should be outlawed. But as I posted above the studies rely on self-reporting, which I think is unreliable.)

Why should it be outlawed? I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, but for an area that is supposed to be more worldly and sophisticated people here seem to think their way is the best and only way. There are billions of people around the world that spank their kids. How is your way better than another culture's way? Because studies have shown xyz? Those studies are skewed and don't apply to every culture.

I'm not saying that the case that OP saw is ok. I'm saying there are different ways to parent, and spanking judiciously when it's called for doesn't mean the child will be scarred for life.

This is what happens when you don't firmly discipline kids. Read the link about Sweden. This country is in danger of ending up like Sweden as far as child rearing goes. It's a slippery slope: don't spank your kids, don't yell at your kids, don't speak sternly to your kids, don't say "no" to your kids...

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579354801246309702

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my daughters school I see a lot of very sweet white women get shoved, hit, and yelled at and yanked by their (I assume) kids. It's rough rough behavior where ladies are getting hurt. By like four and five year olds, and up from there. They are often very upset over what seems to be stuff moms do--like telling them to tie a shoe or get a backpack. I often am so horrified I want to say something, but I have been biting my tongue. Is this a white thing? I live in a middle income neighborhood. I am not trying to get racist here but I don't feel comfortable asking anyone I know who might have insight about these situations.

I couldn't resist.
See how easy that is?

You should have resisted. Parody is not your strong suit.

+1. Not sure why anyone would "love this."

Don't get too caught up in your feelings friend...ignorant presumptions i.e. stereotypes can go both ways. The OP is leaning toward subscribing to a sentiment that black mothers are the only ones who beat their kids. Is it not okay for others to lean toward subscribing to the sentiment that white mother are the only ones who's kids beat them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my daughters school I see a lot of very sweet white women get shoved, hit, and yelled at and yanked by their (I assume) kids. It's rough rough behavior where ladies are getting hurt. By like four and five year olds, and up from there. They are often very upset over what seems to be stuff moms do--like telling them to tie a shoe or get a backpack. I often am so horrified I want to say something, but I have been biting my tongue. Is this a white thing? I live in a middle income neighborhood. I am not trying to get racist here but I don't feel comfortable asking anyone I know who might have insight about these situations.

I couldn't resist.
See how easy that is?

You should have resisted. Parody is not your strong suit.

+1. Not sure why anyone would "love this."

Don't get too caught up in your feelings friend...ignorant presumptions i.e. stereotypes can go both ways. The OP is leaning toward subscribing to a sentiment that black mothers are the only ones who beat their kids. Is it not okay for others to lean toward subscribing to the sentiment that white mother are the only ones who's kids beat them?

I understand that. I just think it's a ridiculous analogy if that's the point you're trying to make. Children (who are still being taught that hitting is wrong) shouldn't be compared to adults hitting little kids. That's what makes it a bad analogy/parody/ or whatever else you'd like to call it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my daughters school I see a lot of very sweet white women get shoved, hit, and yelled at and yanked by their (I assume) kids. It's rough rough behavior where ladies are getting hurt. By like four and five year olds, and up from there. They are often very upset over what seems to be stuff moms do--like telling them to tie a shoe or get a backpack. I often am so horrified I want to say something, but I have been biting my tongue. Is this a white thing? I live in a middle income neighborhood. I am not trying to get racist here but I don't feel comfortable asking anyone I know who might have insight about these situations.

I couldn't resist.
See how easy that is?

You should have resisted. Parody is not your strong suit.

+1. Not sure why anyone would "love this."

Don't get too caught up in your feelings friend...ignorant presumptions i.e. stereotypes can go both ways. The OP is leaning toward subscribing to a sentiment that black mothers are the only ones who beat their kids. Is it not okay for others to lean toward subscribing to the sentiment that white mother are the only ones who's kids beat them?

I understand that. I just think it's a ridiculous analogy if that's the point you're trying to make. Children (who are still being taught that hitting is wrong) shouldn't be compared to adults hitting little kids. That's what makes it a bad analogy/parody/ or whatever else you'd like to call it.

Then you're not understanding...I'm not comparing the violence of supposedly sensible adults to the violence of understandably naive children. I'm comparing one ridiculous generalization to another.
Peep this...the OP looks through a narrow subjective lens at a few mothers and comes to this outrageous conclusion about black women as a whole.
Everybody's fine with that though. That's okay...that's tolerable...its even considered arguable, right...cause you know, they're black and of course any generalization about blacks has to be accurate right?
But when the stupid shit is done without blacks as the focal point, when someone looks through a narrow subjective lens at a few mothers and comes to an outrageous conclusions about white women as a whole - WHOA!! Lol, folks ain't trying to hear that shit for one second.

"Just what the hell do you think you're doing pal? You can't generalize all white mothers as virtual punching bags to their children like that I don't care how many instances you've seen its inaccurate and inarguable!!"
Bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White lady here. I grew up lower MC in a heavily Latino neighborhood. Everyone spanked and hit their kids. Fast forward to now- I am well off and guess what? Most my friends who are also well-off spank or hit their kids! They just don't admit to it as freely and won't do it in public. I believe the higher the SES, the more things are done in private. That's my hypotheses and I am sticking to it.

Clearly higher SES individuals spank less than lower status families. I know very few people that spank their kids, and the data bear this out:

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/090924_spanking.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759998/

http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP36.pdf

Sorry but these are self-reported.

(FYI. I am an anti-spanking, as in it should be outlawed. But as I posted above the studies rely on self-reporting, which I think is unreliable.)

Why should it be outlawed? I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, but for an area that is supposed to be more worldly and sophisticated people here seem to think their way is the best and only way. There are billions of people around the world that spank their kids. How is your way better than another culture's way? Because studies have shown xyz? Those studies are skewed and don't apply to every culture.

I'm not saying that the case that OP saw is ok. I'm saying there are different ways to parent, and spanking judiciously when it's called for doesn't mean the child will be scarred for life.

This is what happens when you don't firmly discipline kids. Read the link about Sweden. This country is in danger of ending up like Sweden as far as child rearing goes. It's a slippery slope: don't spank your kids, don't yell at your kids, don't speak sternly to your kids, don't say "no" to your kids...

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579354801246309702

There is a huge difference in don't spank and don't say No! You know there is a difference. Did I say I was against saying no?! I sternly tell my children "No" all the time. There is no slippery slope in banning spanking. There are far better and more effective discipline methods than spanking.

[Anonymous]

There is most definitely a cultural component to hitting - although the type of 'hitting' I encounter in my work [I work in Ward 7 in this city) is often done with a belt and is called 'getting a whooping' by the kids. These kids get hit far, far more frequently than any kid I know in other parts of my life. They are often terrified to go home when they know they will be beaten. Hitting is *not* an effective form a discipline; this has been researched to death. Anecdotally, it is obviously not effective since the kids I see getting hit or reporting being hit get hit all the time.

[Anonymous]

OP here--Not like it's much use to defend myself since I totally understand the ignorant and stereotypical nature of my questions--hence why I asked it anonymously on a message board as opposed to one of my friends. But! I guess what I was getting at was sort of how surprised I was how PUBLIC this all was and if anyone could comment on how I am seeing an exception or this is other people's experience as well. Listen, I am not black, but I was smacked around when I was kid plenty. It's not a good thing--but that's not even what has made my jaw drop. Like, how are people yanking these toddlers around and screaming and its just so prolific? And their neighbors and friends aren't intervening? I would, but I feel like it would make it worse. So this is just enough of a thing that people in a community are just used to it?

[Anonymous]

A White NP here. There are a lot of White people on DCUM (or maybe it is a few posting over and over) who are obsessed about race. They bring up race as a topic and then accuse the minorities who respond of being racist or playing the race card.

As far as the OP's question, if you were "smacked around plenty" and you are White, how can you credibly ask that question in such racial tones?

I was hit plenty but I never thought of things the way you do. In my mind it is parents who hit and parents who do not hit. There is no racial component to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a poor thing because poor parents are almost always overwhelmed with stress and stress over health, bills and shelter can cause you to do crazy thing. Poor people don't have the resources for therapy to deal with domestic abuse, drug violence etc.

As someone who grew up so poor we faced homelessness and the constant threat of CPS intervention I despise ignorant comments lile this. Pppr does not equal shitty parenting.

Get a clue. Many poor mothers know how to cope without being violent to their children. Many people are poor due to poor decisions and it often spills into all aspects of their lives.

I grew up trailer-park-minimum-wage poor, and my mother never hit her kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my neighborhood I see a lot of very little black kids get shoved, hit, and yelled at and yanked by their (I assume) moms. It's rough rough behavior where kids are getting hurt. Like one and two year old, and up from there. They are often very upset over what seems to be stuff kids do--like making noise on the bus. I often am so horrified I want to say something, but I have been biting my tongue. Is this an AA thing? I live in a low income neighborhood. I am not trying to get racist here but I don't feel comfortable asking anyone I know who might have insight about these situations.

Yes, black parents hit more that other races. Much has been researched/written about this. Start searching the topic, and you'll find many articles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here--Not like it's much use to defend myself since I totally understand the ignorant and stereotypical nature of my questions--hence why I asked it anonymously on a message board as opposed to one of my friends. But! I guess what I was getting at was sort of how surprised I was how PUBLIC this all was and if anyone could comment on how I am seeing an exception or this is other people's experience as well. Listen, I am not black, but I was smacked around when I was kid plenty. It's not a good thing--but that's not even what has made my jaw drop. Like, how are people yanking these toddlers around and screaming and its just so prolific? And their neighbors and friends aren't intervening? I would, but I feel like it would make it worse. So this is just enough of a thing that people in a community are just used to it?

OP I appreciate your inquisitiveness and general concern - prickly references to race aside, you're not thrilled seeing kids getting beaten and want to know if you're alone in your appraisal or if there are other silent head-shakers out there who frown upon parents too. Well, there are. People silently shake their heads and frown upon mothers who don't console their crying toddlers but instead let them wail. People silently shake their heads and frown upon mothers who essentially bribe their children with candy and toys so they will behave. People silently shake their heads and frown upon mothers who seemingly overreact about nothing or seemingly tolerate just about anything. List goes on and on.
There are silent head-shakers frowning upon parents everywhere throughout our society and if you're a mother out in public with your kids you best believe someone is watching you and making all kinds of assessments about your parenting skills and all kinds of evaluations about your children's behavior regardless of your race, income, religion, language, culture, whatever...the disapproval of silent head-shakers transcends all that shit. Hell its people criticizing Princess Kate for discreetly wiping Prince George's drool on her designer dress during a visit to Sydney’s Taronga Zoo. "She didn't use a cloth or a bib? She used her hand? THE HORROR!!!"
Fact is OP our society as a whole is pretty much geared toward people minding their f#king business - husbands beat the crap out of their wives and neighbors hear the screams but no one says anything...teenage girls are waaaay more frisky than their parents suspect and neighbors know what they're up to but no one says anything...wives are sneaking behind their husbands backs having affairs with the landscaper and neighbors see her shady activities but no one says anything. That's the environment that we've created as a result of putting so much emphasis on personal privacy. Maybe that needs to change. Maybe someone does need to intervene sometimes.
Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I'm Black and I live in a gentrifying area of NW DC. My DH and I are law school graduates and we are in the top 10% of earners in the country. That said, we see this behavior all the time (cursing, hitting, yelling, shaming, degrading, etc...) and it disgusts us and once my DH stayed really close to a mom and her kids in case he had to intervene and call the police. It is a serious issue among the poor and uneducated (read: ignorant). I feel very sorry for the kids as it perpetuates the cycle of violence and ignorance in certain communities.

When we lived in NY, we saw the same behavior in the Black and Hispanic communities. When we lived in TN, we saw the same behavior in the Black and white communities. DC just happens to be predominately Black so you will see it more from Black moms. I don't know when you DCUM race baiters will ever get that it is a socio economic issue based on location.

[Anonymous]

I think that Jeff does a great job with this site but he and all of us participants really need to try to get control of this. This race bashing is really getting out of hand. There are a lot of AA moms on these boards (I know a few of them) and it is starting to be an uncomfortable place to be.

[Anonymous]

I remember when I was single and lived in Arlington, I would shop at the Target down on JD Highway, and I was always shocked at the violence I saw exhibited by AA moms towards their children. It upset me so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm Black and I live in a gentrifying area of NW DC. My DH and I are law school graduates and we are in the top 10% of earners in the country. That said, we see this behavior all the time (cursing, hitting, yelling, shaming, degrading, etc...) and it disgusts us and once my DH stayed really close to a mom and her kids in case he had to intervene and call the police. It is a serious issue among the poor and uneducated (read: ignorant). I feel very sorry for the kids as it perpetuates the cycle of violence and ignorance in certain communities.

When we lived in NY, we saw the same behavior in the Black and Hispanic communities. When we lived in TN, we saw the same behavior in the Black and white communities. DC just happens to be predominately Black so you will see it more from Black moms. I don't know when you DCUM race baiters will ever get that it is a socio economic issue based on location.

I agree with this. I've lived in several southern states and seen this in white and Hispanic communities. I think your post reflects the recent post about how there are no poor whites living in DC (DC proper), unlike other major cities. It seems to skew people's viewpoints, when poor and black seem to coincide so exclusively.