Neglected gifted child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anything not part of the high school diploma requirements should be cut.

Everything else is "nice to have" -- so eliminate arts, music, foreign languages in ES and MS, sports, honors, AP, IB, and AAP.

The most costly of these programs are likely music and arts so start there.

Let the kids create clubs and bring their own stuff in.

Foreign language in elementary? Don't we have that with all the ESL kids? BTW? We should not be schooling these children. No papers, no school.

Sooooooo much better for those kids not to go to school! They can stay ignorant, never learn English, stay home unwatched while parents work, and form gangs to survive. That's much better than paying for them to go to school.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure lots of parents would be willing to drive to Longfellow for their center experience if within the Cooper boundary-I sure would!

"Their center experience"?

Exactly. The reason people fight so hard to get their kids into AAP is because they feel those kids get a superior education, and they want their kids to get 'the best' as well. It's the equivalent of buying a Mercedes rather than driving a Toyota.

People here are very into their image and their kids are a reflection of that. God forbid they are asked at a social event about their kids and AAP and they have to admit their kid is in a *gasp* regular classroom.

Those kids grow up with a perception of themselves that's rather unrealistic. When they get out of the insulated bubble that is this area and hit the real world, they realize they are not that special after all and that's when problems start.

I think there's great importance in giving one's kids a normal childhood, rather than a 'push, push' kind.

And the perception that people have a right to an advanced education on the government's dime? Don't even get me started.

COMPLETELY agree with you. I resent the fact that our public school system is putting more money and effort into teaching one group of kids than another; especially when the two groups are virtually indistinguishable. And as for the unrealistic perception many of these AAP kids have of themselves, that all comes to a halt when they reach the real world of high school and realize just how many outstanding students there really are out there. And many of them were in Gen Ed all this time! Gasp.

[Anonymous]

My understanding, from reading this forum, is that teaching AAP costs money, teaching gen Ed costs money, and that teaching Title I and ESL costs a lot of money. Realistically speaking, Fairfax can't cut Title I and ESL. And most parents have kids in gen Ed, so they don't want that cut. So I guess that's why everyone attacks AAP.

[Anonymous]

My understanding, from reading this forum, is that teaching AAP costs money, teaching gen Ed costs money, and that teaching Title I and ESL costs a lot of money. Realistically speaking, Fairfax can't cut Title I and ESL. And most parents have kids in gen Ed, so they don't want that cut. So I guess that's why everyone attacks AAP.

Here is a fact: Most AAP kids would fit in fine with Gen Ed. Take the exceptional and truly gifted out--although they would do fine in GenEd as well.

[Anonymous]

In general, I think FCPS gets hooked on things they think will make some parents happy and then way overdoes it. AAP and IB are the two examples that immediately come to mind.

We surely want to find challenges for the most gifted students. But AAP has become the crack of FCPS - it's viewed as the vehicle of choice for parents of slightly above-average kids to get them out of classrooms with kids who are struggling to learn English or master basic skills. But it's backfired because now the parents of every other student in the wealthy areas that don't have large ESOL/FARMS populations insist that their kids be placed in AAP, and the GenEd parents in those areas who didn't think to get their kid into AAP or couldn't find a way to pull it off are seriously pissed.

IB is similar. It was introduced at one high school decades ago with the stated purpose of stemming white flight. It didn't do that, but it sounds "trendy" and "prestigious," so FCPS kept sticking it in school after school, even though the demand for the program is limited. So now we're stuck with a under-utilized program that costs more than AP at nearly 1/3 of the county's high schools.

Both programs are treated like sacred cows in FCPS, so they likely won't get cut. Instead, Gatehouse will blame the BOS and the taxpayers for not sending FCPS enough money, and our kids will end up in classrooms with more students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure lots of parents would be willing to drive to Longfellow for their center experience if within the Cooper boundary-I sure would!

"Their center experience"?

Exactly. The reason people fight so hard to get their kids into AAP is because they feel those kids get a superior education, and they want their kids to get 'the best' as well. It's the equivalent of buying a Mercedes rather than driving a Toyota.

People here are very into their image and their kids are a reflection of that. God forbid they are asked at a social event about their kids and AAP and they have to admit their kid is in a *gasp* regular classroom.

Those kids grow up with a perception of themselves that's rather unrealistic. When they get out of the insulated bubble that is this area and hit the real world, they realize they are not that special after all and that's when problems start.

I think there's great importance in giving one's kids a normal childhood, rather than a 'push, push' kind.

And the perception that people have a right to an advanced education on the government's dime? Don't even get me started.

COMPLETELY agree with you. I resent the fact that our public school system is putting more money and effort into teaching one group of kids than another; especially when the two groups are virtually indistinguishable. And as for the unrealistic perception many of these AAP kids have of themselves, that all comes to a halt when they reach the real world of high school and realize just how many outstanding students there really are out there. And many of them were in Gen Ed all this time! Gasp.

Except it is not the Gov't dime. It is our dimes. And, I am thinking this is a good use of tax dollars. The majority if Fairfax agree. That is why we have a world class education system. If you want to save money, move to PG county. You will save a lot. Or Prince William. I chose to live in a place with higher taxes for better schools. Period.

I

[Anonymous]

Except it is not the Gov't dime. It is our dimes. And, I am thinking this is a good use of tax dollars. The majority if Fairfax agree. That is why we have a world class education system. If you want to save money, move to PG county. You will save a lot. Or Prince William. I chose to live in a place with higher taxes for better schools. Period.

So YOU get to choose? I prefer to keep my taxes reasonable. Assessments have gone up--if they raise the rate, the taxes of homeowners will go up significantly. NOt everyone can afford it. Put your kid in private if you want to spend money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What should be more important to our government and society as a whole than properly educating our children? There is no greater priority-and selfishly yes, for the kind of property taxes one must pay to live in NOVA, I'd like to see some bang for my buck!!

Longfellow and Kilmer do currently have more to offer in terms if certain class and extracurricular activities than Coooper, which is what the PP was trying to point out. And currently, for those interested in TJ, Cooper sends very few, if at all. Can't argue with the cold hard facts.

Were the founding fathers well-educated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure lots of parents would be willing to drive to Longfellow for their center experience if within the Cooper boundary-I sure would!

"Their center experience"?

Exactly. The reason people fight so hard to get their kids into AAP is because they feel those kids get a superior education, and they want their kids to get 'the best' as well. It's the equivalent of buying a Mercedes rather than driving a Toyota.

People here are very into their image and their kids are a reflection of that. God forbid they are asked at a social event about their kids and AAP and they have to admit their kid is in a *gasp* regular classroom.

Those kids grow up with a perception of themselves that's rather unrealistic. When they get out of the insulated bubble that is this area and hit the real world, they realize they are not that special after all and that's when problems start.

I think there's great importance in giving one's kids a normal childhood, rather than a 'push, push' kind.

And the perception that people have a right to an advanced education on the government's dime? Don't even get me started.

You seem to be a self-starter where the topic of railing against AAP is concerned.

Why shouldn't parents want the best public education possible for their kids? They pay taxes to fund the schools. Should this only be available to those who can afford privates? And why isn't the private-school experience considered a bigger "insulated bubble" than attending public school?

I think it's much more important to use these taxes to fund services that provide for all, such as police, fire, etc. You want your little snowflake to have an advanced education? Pay for the advanced part out of your own pocket. Don't make the taxpayers to do it for you.

Most of those Ivys you seek are private anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anything not part of the high school diploma requirements should be cut.

Everything else is "nice to have" -- so eliminate arts, music, foreign languages in ES and MS, sports, honors, AP, IB, and AAP.

The most costly of these programs are likely music and arts so start there.

Let the kids create clubs and bring their own stuff in.

Foreign language in elementary? Don't we have that with all the ESL kids? BTW? We should not be schooling these children. No papers, no school.

Sooooooo much better for those kids not to go to school! They can stay ignorant, never learn English, stay home unwatched while parents work, and form gangs to survive. That's much better than paying for them to go to school.

Soooo much better for their parents not to break the law by sneaking over the border.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure lots of parents would be willing to drive to Longfellow for their center experience if within the Cooper boundary-I sure would!

"Their center experience"?

Exactly. The reason people fight so hard to get their kids into AAP is because they feel those kids get a superior education, and they want their kids to get 'the best' as well. It's the equivalent of buying a Mercedes rather than driving a Toyota.

People here are very into their image and their kids are a reflection of that. God forbid they are asked at a social event about their kids and AAP and they have to admit their kid is in a *gasp* regular classroom.

Those kids grow up with a perception of themselves that's rather unrealistic. When they get out of the insulated bubble that is this area and hit the real world, they realize they are not that special after all and that's when problems start.

I think there's great importance in giving one's kids a normal childhood, rather than a 'push, push' kind.

And the perception that people have a right to an advanced education on the government's dime? Don't even get me started.

COMPLETELY agree with you. I resent the fact that our public school system is putting more money and effort into teaching one group of kids than another; especially when the two groups are virtually indistinguishable. And as for the unrealistic perception many of these AAP kids have of themselves, that all comes to a halt when they reach the real world of high school and realize just how many outstanding students there really are out there. And many of them were in Gen Ed all this time! Gasp.

Except it is not the Gov't dime. It is our dimes. And, I am thinking this is a good use of tax dollars. The majority if Fairfax agree. That is why we have a world class education system. If you want to save money, move to PG county. You will save a lot. Or Prince William. I chose to live in a place with higher taxes for better schools. Period.

I

Exactly. And I am paying for your 'gifted' child. And don't have a choice as an individual. Will you pay for my child's private schooling please?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure lots of parents would be willing to drive to Longfellow for their center experience if within the Cooper boundary-I sure would!

"Their center experience"?

Exactly. The reason people fight so hard to get their kids into AAP is because they feel those kids get a superior education, and they want their kids to get 'the best' as well. It's the equivalent of buying a Mercedes rather than driving a Toyota.

People here are very into their image and their kids are a reflection of that. God forbid they are asked at a social event about their kids and AAP and they have to admit their kid is in a *gasp* regular classroom.

Those kids grow up with a perception of themselves that's rather unrealistic. When they get out of the insulated bubble that is this area and hit the real world, they realize they are not that special after all and that's when problems start.

I think there's great importance in giving one's kids a normal childhood, rather than a 'push, push' kind.

And the perception that people have a right to an advanced education on the government's dime? Don't even get me started.

COMPLETELY agree with you. I resent the fact that our public school system is putting more money and effort into teaching one group of kids than another; especially when the two groups are virtually indistinguishable. And as for the unrealistic perception many of these AAP kids have of themselves, that all comes to a halt when they reach the real world of high school and realize just how many outstanding students there really are out there. And many of them were in Gen Ed all this time! Gasp.

Except it is not the Gov't dime. It is our dimes. And, I am thinking this is a good use of tax dollars. The majority if Fairfax agree. That is why we have a world class education system. If you want to save money, move to PG county. You will save a lot. Or Prince William. I chose to live in a place with higher taxes for better schools. Period.

I

For FCPS to actually have a world-class education system, they would have to put any available funds into General Ed as a whole, not some specialty program that only serves certain kids but not others. If the School Board actually put this to a vote, they would see that the majority of FxCo parents want AAP gone or vastly reduced to serve only highly gifted kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP costs are minimal...last time they broke it out, the total cost was a few hundred K, and only for busing to the center school vs the base school.

This is not correct. The costs as laid out in the FY14 budget include things like $500,000 in central office IS costs, bus costs, supplies, etc. So the AAP cost is not simply the staff (which is in the $5M range per the FY14 budget - but all of the teaching staff would obviously still be needed). And the bus runs, while one poster mentioned that their child just hopped on an existing run, would not exist (not all of them) if the AAP program did not exist.

That said, school districts are required by law to provide special education services to students, and AAP falls under that umbrella. How they deliver the services is obviously up to the districts, but it varies widely across the district as has been discussed on other threads.

The cost of AAP: you can look at what FCPS is paying for AAP services, but that would give a high number. Presumably, each kid in AAP would still be taught in general education. So, the classroom space would be about the same, number of teachers would be about the same. Maybe AAP resource teachers would lose their jobs, which could save a a few million...but that means we are getting rid of all enrichment.

The total cost of having the AAP program county wide, compared to not having it is probably on the order of $5 million: AAP resource teachers, and 2 AAP specialists per cluster. or about 50 employees.


If you get rid of AAP, though, other problems would pop up. Smart bored kids in 30 person classrooms leads to disciplinary issues. In addition, it is possible (likely) that some ADD not previously diagnosed would probably increase in the AAP population....that would increase costs. You could have smaller classrooms, but that would significantly increase costs (smaller classrooms mean more teachers).

You are vastly underestimating the costs. There's transportation, two rounds of testing, the administrative nightmare that is the selection and referral process . . .

I don't have a dog in this race, but the notion that FCPS is only spending $5 million on AAP is absurd.

Absolutely. Perhaps if FCPS is so strapped for cash, yet insists on paying for this program, the parents should be required to pay a fee for their kids to participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What should be more important to our government and society as a whole than properly educating our children? There is no greater priority-and selfishly yes, for the kind of property taxes one must pay to live in NOVA, I'd like to see some bang for my buck!!

Longfellow and Kilmer do currently have more to offer in terms if certain class and extracurricular activities than Coooper, which is what the PP was trying to point out. And currently, for those interested in TJ, Cooper sends very few, if at all. Can't argue with the cold hard facts.

Here's a cold, hard fact: my tax dollars are being used to support a program which doesn't benefit my child (or many others) in any way, shape, or form. Perhaps you are receiving "some bang for your buck," but lots of other families are not. I would absolutely like to see our children properly educated. All of them.

[Anonymous]

Were the founding fathers well-educated?

Most were self-educated--very well read. They had vision and common sense. We see little of that in FCPS.