Neglected gifted child

[Anonymous]

AAP is FCPS's way of delivering gifted and talented services. It's the same thing in FCPS's eyes.

No. It is the same thing in the eyes of the obsessive parents. It is not the same thing and FCPS knows it. They just don't want lots of complaints from parents who would complain.

[Anonymous]

I think it would be wise to shrink AAP down to fit the actual numerical number of students who qualify as gifted (say 3-5%) of the population but now that its bloated to 25% or so it will not go over well FCPS parents.

[Anonymous]

It is only about 12-15% or so of the FCPS that qualify for level IV services-still too high but not 25%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is only about 12-15% or so of the FCPS that qualify for level IV services-still too high but not 25%.

If you're going to post actual facts, you should just leave now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure lots of parents would be willing to drive to Longfellow for their center experience if within the Cooper boundary-I sure would!

"Their center experience"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

AAP costs are minimal...last time they broke it out, the total cost was a few hundred K, and only for busing to the center school vs the base school.

That's bs. Take a look at the budget. Transportation alone is in the millions for AAP.

+1
And if we're talking about cutting something from the already depleted budget, we need to start somewhere. Getting rid of AAP is a great place to start.

I would get rid of AAP in Cluster 1 as all of the schools have enough students to have Local Level IV.

I would support this at the elementary level, but not at middle school and higher. Keep the centers in middle (Longfellow and Kilmer).

Nope. Kilmer won't have the space. FCPS either needs to scale back AAP eligibilty or open a center at Cooper. You decide, but screwing around with boundaries just so several hundred AAP kids from the Langley district can be bussed to Kilmer and Longfellow should be off the table.

This is clearly the answer but no one with any common sense seems to want to implement it.

[Anonymous]

APS is no better. They only offer pull outs and are ah more focused on SN kids than GT or 2X kids. It is sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is only about 12-15% or so of the FCPS that qualify for level IV services-still too high but not 25%.

If you're going to post actual facts, you should just leave now.

LOL! Love this post.

The signal-to-noise ratio here is indeed abysmal. Factual posts are so few and far between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP costs are minimal...last time they broke it out, the total cost was a few hundred K, and only for busing to the center school vs the base school.

This is not correct. The costs as laid out in the FY14 budget include things like $500,000 in central office IS costs, bus costs, supplies, etc. So the AAP cost is not simply the staff (which is in the $5M range per the FY14 budget - but all of the teaching staff would obviously still be needed). And the bus runs, while one poster mentioned that their child just hopped on an existing run, would not exist (not all of them) if the AAP program did not exist.

That said, school districts are required by law to provide special education services to students, and AAP falls under that umbrella. How they deliver the services is obviously up to the districts, but it varies widely across the district as has been discussed on other threads.

The cost of AAP: you can look at what FCPS is paying for AAP services, but that would give a high number. Presumably, each kid in AAP would still be taught in general education. So, the classroom space would be about the same, number of teachers would be about the same. Maybe AAP resource teachers would lose their jobs, which could save a a few million...but that means we are getting rid of all enrichment.

The total cost of having the AAP program county wide, compared to not having it is probably on the order of $5 million: AAP resource teachers, and 2 AAP specialists per cluster. or about 50 employees.


If you get rid of AAP, though, other problems would pop up. Smart bored kids in 30 person classrooms leads to disciplinary issues. In addition, it is possible (likely) that some ADD not previously diagnosed would probably increase in the AAP population....that would increase costs. You could have smaller classrooms, but that would significantly increase costs (smaller classrooms mean more teachers).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP costs are minimal...last time they broke it out, the total cost was a few hundred K, and only for busing to the center school vs the base school.

This is not correct. The costs as laid out in the FY14 budget include things like $500,000 in central office IS costs, bus costs, supplies, etc. So the AAP cost is not simply the staff (which is in the $5M range per the FY14 budget - but all of the teaching staff would obviously still be needed). And the bus runs, while one poster mentioned that their child just hopped on an existing run, would not exist (not all of them) if the AAP program did not exist.

That said, school districts are required by law to provide special education services to students, and AAP falls under that umbrella. How they deliver the services is obviously up to the districts, but it varies widely across the district as has been discussed on other threads.

The cost of AAP: you can look at what FCPS is paying for AAP services, but that would give a high number. Presumably, each kid in AAP would still be taught in general education. So, the classroom space would be about the same, number of teachers would be about the same. Maybe AAP resource teachers would lose their jobs, which could save a a few million...but that means we are getting rid of all enrichment.

The total cost of having the AAP program county wide, compared to not having it is probably on the order of $5 million: AAP resource teachers, and 2 AAP specialists per cluster. or about 50 employees.


If you get rid of AAP, though, other problems would pop up. Smart bored kids in 30 person classrooms leads to disciplinary issues. In addition, it is possible (likely) that some ADD not previously diagnosed would probably increase in the AAP population....that would increase costs. You could have smaller classrooms, but that would significantly increase costs (smaller classrooms mean more teachers).

You are vastly underestimating the costs. There's transportation, two rounds of testing, the administrative nightmare that is the selection and referral process . . .

I don't have a dog in this race, but the notion that FCPS is only spending $5 million on AAP is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anything not part of the high school diploma requirements should be cut.

Everything else is "nice to have" -- so eliminate arts, music, foreign languages in ES and MS, sports, honors, AP, IB, and AAP.

The most costly of these programs are likely music and arts so start there.

Let the kids create clubs and bring their own stuff in.

Foreign language in elementary? Don't we have that with all the ESL kids? BTW? We should not be schooling these children. No papers, no school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure lots of parents would be willing to drive to Longfellow for their center experience if within the Cooper boundary-I sure would!

"Their center experience"?

Exactly. The reason people fight so hard to get their kids into AAP is because they feel those kids get a superior education, and they want their kids to get 'the best' as well. It's the equivalent of buying a Mercedes rather than driving a Toyota.

People here are very into their image and their kids are a reflection of that. God forbid they are asked at a social event about their kids and AAP and they have to admit their kid is in a *gasp* regular classroom.

Those kids grow up with a perception of themselves that's rather unrealistic. When they get out of the insulated bubble that is this area and hit the real world, they realize they are not that special after all and that's when problems start.

I think there's great importance in giving one's kids a normal childhood, rather than a 'push, push' kind.

And the perception that people have a right to an advanced education on the government's dime? Don't even get me started.

[Anonymous]

What should be more important to our government and society as a whole than properly educating our children? There is no greater priority-and selfishly yes, for the kind of property taxes one must pay to live in NOVA, I'd like to see some bang for my buck!!

Longfellow and Kilmer do currently have more to offer in terms if certain class and extracurricular activities than Coooper, which is what the PP was trying to point out. And currently, for those interested in TJ, Cooper sends very few, if at all. Can't argue with the cold hard facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure lots of parents would be willing to drive to Longfellow for their center experience if within the Cooper boundary-I sure would!

"Their center experience"?

Exactly. The reason people fight so hard to get their kids into AAP is because they feel those kids get a superior education, and they want their kids to get 'the best' as well. It's the equivalent of buying a Mercedes rather than driving a Toyota.

People here are very into their image and their kids are a reflection of that. God forbid they are asked at a social event about their kids and AAP and they have to admit their kid is in a *gasp* regular classroom.

Those kids grow up with a perception of themselves that's rather unrealistic. When they get out of the insulated bubble that is this area and hit the real world, they realize they are not that special after all and that's when problems start.

I think there's great importance in giving one's kids a normal childhood, rather than a 'push, push' kind.

And the perception that people have a right to an advanced education on the government's dime? Don't even get me started.

You seem to be a self-starter where the topic of railing against AAP is concerned.

Why shouldn't parents want the best public education possible for their kids? They pay taxes to fund the schools. Should this only be available to those who can afford privates? And why isn't the private-school experience considered a bigger "insulated bubble" than attending public school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anything not part of the high school diploma requirements should be cut.

Everything else is "nice to have" -- so eliminate arts, music, foreign languages in ES and MS, sports, honors, AP, IB, and AAP.

The most costly of these programs are likely music and arts so start there.

Let the kids create clubs and bring their own stuff in.

Foreign language in elementary? Don't we have that with all the ESL kids? BTW? We should not be schooling these children. No papers, no school.

Sooooooo much better for those kids not to go to school! They can stay ignorant, never learn English, stay home unwatched while parents work, and form gangs to survive. That's much better than paying for them to go to school.