SO: How do you fit into a poor or primarily minority public school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It does not help that we have a President who is doing everything he can to divide this country along racial and economic lines

Really? I'm white and I don't think that way. Is this what YOU let your kids hear?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids' ES is about 45% Hispanic, 35% White, 10% Black, rest Asian and other. Definitely a majority minority school but no one group is really dominant. The demographics in each classroom are pretty much the same as the overall demographics and my kids have always had friends from all the groups, although many of their best friends/play dates tend to be with kids from our neighborhood, who participate in the same activities they do like scouts and soccer. A higher percentage of these kids are white, but about a third are minorities.

So anyway I feel like we and they fit in just fine. Parents can communicate via class email groups or use the school directory to look up each others phone number. My kids have learned a lot about other cultures and families and traditions in learning about their classmates and made some great friends.

This has been our experience in our school also.

But to be honest, I don't think there is a "fit in" scenario. I think there are distinct groups and it just happens. As my child gets older, I am less and less inclinded to push her towards diversifying her friendships for the sake of diversity. She is going into 4th and the difference in attitudes between the groups of families at the school is obvious. Basically what happens is the smart hispanic and black kids gravitate to the white kids after a while. This is what I have observed in our school and I am not saying it is true for every school. Hispanic parents value education and really want their kids to finish high school and maybe some even think of college. But limited experience and time in this country often leads to them believing many jobs that are still lower paying are "professsional" such as dental assistant, CNA, receptionist. They want their kids to not do manual labor and see working in an office setting as a "professional job". I have often heard the Hispanic teens in our high school say they are going to continue with "school" after they graduate and they are referring to some kind of certificate or trade not college. There is little emphasis on extra curricular activities and low participation. Black parents stress the importance of education by saying they believe in it and paying lip service to their kids doing well but their never seems to be much true emphasis. The same mom who says that her kids need to do well in school will say in the next sentence their kid plays hours of video games a day. It is highly stressed that kids need to graduate from high school but there doesn't seem to be much expectation after that as to what kids should do. Extra curriculars are more important and there is moderate participation. White parents expect their kids to get perfect grades, do well, go to college. There is no discussion of graduating high school because it's a given. Extra curricular activites are important and this is high participation.

PP- I'm wondering what kind of school your DC attends? And where is it?

My AA DD excels in academics, takes tennis, swimming and piano lessons. She is among the most popular kids in her grade and constantly is invited to (and hosts her own) parties and playdates, mostly with her Caucasian and Asian friends (her schoolmates gravitate to HER). DH and I are in finance and live in a high SES neighborhood.

I don't discount your feelings (people know what they see - right?) - I know that you know that there are people out there who don't fit within the parameters you've outlined in your post. DD sees the doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. in her family and has "decided" to attend the Université de Paris.

I wondered what kind of area your DC's school is in that has lead to you seeing what you've seen. I totally agree with not pushing friendships for the sake of diversity. I wouldn't want someone to be (or not be) my daughter's friend because she has brown skin or green eyes or dimples. I would want them to be friends with her because she's kind, empathetic, funny, creative and awesome (IMO) . In our house, completing high school, under grad AND grad school is a given and DD has know from an early age what's expected. DD understands that she's privileged and from what I can see, the ONLY thing that makes her different from her friends is her skin color- not her work ethic, speech patterns, behavior, drive to excel, etc.

When I volunteered in a school a few years ago I saw many of the things you mentioned in your post and it was disheartening- but the divisions existed more strongly along class lines than racial lines in that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I wondered what kind of area your DC's school is in that has lead to you seeing what you've seen. I totally agree with not pushing friendships for the sake of diversity. I wouldn't want someone to be (or not be) my daughter's friend because she has brown skin or green eyes or dimples. I would want them to be friends with her because she's kind, empathetic, funny, creative and awesome (IMO) . In our house, completing high school, under grad AND grad school is a given and DD has know from an early age what's expected. DD understands that she's privileged and from what I can see, the ONLY thing that makes her different from her friends is her skin color- not her work ethic, speech patterns, behavior, drive to excel, etc.

When I volunteered in a school a few years ago I saw many of the things you mentioned in your post and it was disheartening- but the divisions existed more strongly along class lines than racial lines in that school.

PP, I am not the OP you are addressing, but my child is also one of the only white kids in his class and I have to agree with PP's observations for the most part. And yours. We are not in a high SES neighborhood or school. We are about the same SES as many of the AA families who send kids to our son's school. I'd say his school is about 60% FARMS, and the rest middle class -- college educated families, many of whom have a stay at home or part time employed parent.

There is a real lack of after school activities in our school; what there is seems to focus on social activities or sports. When we talk with our friends in Potomac, I hear about all the after school academic clubs they have -- chess and Science Bowl and Destination Imagination and things like that. There just isn't that kind of emphasis at schools around here. It seems enough that the kids are staying out of trouble.

That said, my son hasn't had any social problems being one of the only white kids in his class, as far as I am aware. He seems popular enough, anyhow; although we never did a lot of playdates or getting together with kids from school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing seems a trend to me (as an upper middle income non-white person), it's liberal guilt whites who seem to see 'value' in sending their kids to majority or near- majority low income schools. I think you'd be hard pressed to find upper middle income minority families attempting the same thing. I think the only thing such an attempt would do to my little brown kid is reinforce the already pervasive notion that brown means to be poor and uneducated. I think it is important to empathize and try to alleviate poverty,speaking as someone with ample prior exposure to poverty both personally and professionally. [b]What I don't understand is the desire of certain rich white folk to emulate it in their children's educations.

I have no idea what you mean by this. I'm white, my DH is Hispanic (but of the "Spanish" class as my MIL emphatically states). Our kids are a little darker than me but much more fair than my DH. Our kids go to school at the same elementary school my DH went only now it is a majority minority school. The majority are Central American, whites/blacks are similar percentages and Asians are a clear minority. It's now a Title 1 school.

We are far more affluent than most students but had no agenda in sending our kids to that school. We bought our home before were married and well before we even thought of having kids. It's our neighborhood school. I know that not every parent at that school are as invested in their child's education as we are but I don't believe that has any impact on our kids (the oldest is in 6th grade, the youngest is in 2nd). The biggest influence on our kids' education is my DH and me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing seems a trend to me (as an upper middle income non-white person), it's liberal guilt whites who seem to see 'value' in sending their kids to majority or near- majority low income schools. I think you'd be hard pressed to find upper middle income minority families attempting the same thing. I think the only thing such an attempt would do to my little brown kid is reinforce the already pervasive notion that brown means to be poor and uneducated. I think it is important to empathize and try to alleviate poverty,speaking as someone with ample prior exposure to poverty both personally and professionally. [b]What I don't understand is the desire of certain rich white folk to emulate it in their children's educations.

I have no idea what you mean by this. I'm white, my DH is Hispanic (but of the "Spanish" class as my MIL emphatically states). Our kids are a little darker than me but much more fair than my DH. Our kids go to school at the same elementary school my DH went only now it is a majority minority school. The majority are Central American, whites/blacks are similar percentages and Asians are a clear minority. It's now a Title 1 school.

We are far more affluent than most students but had no agenda in sending our kids to that school. We bought our home before were married and well before we even thought of having kids. It's our neighborhood school. I know that not every parent at that school are as invested in their child's education as we are but I don't believe that has any impact on our kids (the oldest is in 6th grade, the youngest is in 2nd). The biggest influence on our kids' education is my DH and me.

I'm glad you respond to the PP you referenced. I'm white. I don't have any "guilt," nor am I naive about issues some schools face. I don't have children yet, but when I do, I most certainly will try my neighborhood schools first. Why? Because I believe in neighborhood schools. My local schools are pretty balanced, though, along class and race lines (as in they are truly diverse -- it isn't all poor students or all rich students or all students of one particular race). If I have problems with the neighborhood/public school (either social or academic), then I will consider private. But I find it shameful that people of all races don't even give their neighborhood schools a chance, mostly based on presumption/reputation, as opposed to actually talking to people who have kids attending that school.

Growing up, I went to public school and got a decent education (went on to win a full academic scholarship in the amount of $120,000). In college, my experience was that a lot of the students who had gone to private school had serious attitude issues. They had a sense of superiority and entitlement that I wouldn't want any child of mine to have. And frankly, they weren't any more advanced academically than I was. So I will resist as much as I can sending my child to private school. Because so many of those kids come out with some serious character flaws.

That said, certainly, if there are problems in public school that I am not able to ameliorate, then, sure, I will consider private school.

But I don't think anyone should assume that "white folk" send their kids to public school out of any kind of "liberal guilt" or naive ideology. I've seen the products of private school. And I wasn't much impressed.

[Anonymous]

^^^ meant "responded."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It does not help that we have a President who is doing everything he can to divide this country along racial and economic lines

how? By being black?

[Anonymous]

I teach in a very diverse school, and to be honest, I see very little mixing.

The divisions start with race first and then program. And by program, I mean those few who can excel in the magnet part. So while our special programs are diverse, they're also filled with very smart students who have probably never "mixed with the masses" during their entire school career.

And the majority of our white students are in the special programs, as I can count on my right hand how many I had my in level courses.

It's a societal issue. But as far as my own kids are concerned, I refuse to make them outliers by proving a point. So we're in a very balanced cluster where no one really stands out.

[Anonymous]

PP,

You can't even play this game b/c your kids are Hispanic. They are viewed differently and placed in a different category (aka Check the race box.) altogether. I applaud your last line - and certainly support it. But your kids would be welcomed more warmly in a very diverse setting than mine would be - who are both blonde, green-eyed, fair-skinned kids.

Kids see color - mainly b/c of whom they're around all day.

And to add to this, while my kids are fair (and clearly not "ethnic" looking at all), my cousins who "kept it in the family" by marrying Italians have kids with olive complexions. (I just never got the "olive" gene.) People think they're Hispanic, and in fact, one of the kids was immediately placed in an ESOL class b/c her Italian father (who has an accent) registered her.

So people DO see skin color - and immediately start to categorize others. I don't care HOW supportive parents are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing seems a trend to me (as an upper middle income non-white person), it's liberal guilt whites who seem to see 'value' in sending their kids to majority or near- majority low income schools. I think you'd be hard pressed to find upper middle income minority families attempting the same thing. I think the only thing such an attempt would do to my little brown kid is reinforce the already pervasive notion that brown means to be poor and uneducated. I think it is important to empathize and try to alleviate poverty,speaking as someone with ample prior exposure to poverty both personally and professionally. [b]What I don't understand is the desire of certain rich white folk to emulate it in their children's educations.

I have no idea what you mean by this. I'm white, my DH is Hispanic (but of the "Spanish" class as my MIL emphatically states). Our kids are a little darker than me but much more fair than my DH. Our kids go to school at the same elementary school my DH went only now it is a majority minority school. The majority are Central American, whites/blacks are similar percentages and Asians are a clear minority. It's now a Title 1 school.

We are far more affluent than most students but had no agenda in sending our kids to that school. We bought our home before were married and well before we even thought of having kids. It's our neighborhood school. I know that not every parent at that school are as invested in their child's education as we are but I don't believe that has any impact on our kids (the oldest is in 6th grade, the youngest is in 2nd). The biggest influence on our kids' education is my DH and me.

[Anonymous]

to 15:49, so what does that mean, that kids can't go to a school where they're not in a majority? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?

[Anonymous]

PP,

You can't even play this game b/c your kids are Hispanic. They are viewed differently and placed in a different category (aka Check the race box.) altogether. I applaud your last line - and certainly support it. But your kids would be welcomed more warmly in a very diverse setting than mine would be - who are both blonde, green-eyed, fair-skinned kids.

Kids see color - mainly b/c of whom they're around all day.

And to add to this, while my kids are fair (and clearly not "ethnic" looking at all), my cousins who "kept it in the family" by marrying Italians have kids with olive complexions. (I just never got the "olive" gene.) People think they're Hispanic, and in fact, one of the kids was immediately placed in an ESOL class b/c her Italian father (who has an accent) registered her.

So people DO see skin color - and immediately start to categorize others. I don't care HOW supportive parents are.

I'm the PP you're responding to. I don't understand what point you're trying to make and I don't understand why you think my kids are viewed differently because they're half Hispanic. Looking at them, no one would identify them as Hispanic. Many people don't recognize my DH as Hispanic either because his features aren't dark. I have reddish brown hair/blue eyes. My skin is "porcelain" according to my foundation/powder and I don't tan well. My kids have light brown eyes but dirty blonde hair and their complexion is light to medium. There are at least a couple of kids in their classes who don't fit the appearance stereotypes either - including the black Hispanics (Cuban/DR), the Indians from Africa and the South American Germans. There are a number of Phillipinos that can pass as Spanish and Asian.

Of course people categorize by color. They also categorize by gender and age. There have been a lot of studies showing what people notice first about a person they meet. So what.

[Anonymous]

And what race box did you check?

Anonymous wrote:

PP,

You can't even play this game b/c your kids are Hispanic. They are viewed differently and placed in a different category (aka Check the race box.) altogether. I applaud your last line - and certainly support it. But your kids would be welcomed more warmly in a very diverse setting than mine would be - who are both blonde, green-eyed, fair-skinned kids.

Kids see color - mainly b/c of whom they're around all day.

And to add to this, while my kids are fair (and clearly not "ethnic" looking at all), my cousins who "kept it in the family" by marrying Italians have kids with olive complexions. (I just never got the "olive" gene.) People think they're Hispanic, and in fact, one of the kids was immediately placed in an ESOL class b/c her Italian father (who has an accent) registered her.

So people DO see skin color - and immediately start to categorize others. I don't care HOW supportive parents are.

I'm the PP you're responding to. I don't understand what point you're trying to make and I don't understand why you think my kids are viewed differently because they're half Hispanic. Looking at them, no one would identify them as Hispanic. Many people don't recognize my DH as Hispanic either because his features aren't dark. I have reddish brown hair/blue eyes. My skin is "porcelain" according to my foundation/powder and I don't tan well. My kids have light brown eyes but dirty blonde hair and their complexion is light to medium. There are at least a couple of kids in their classes who don't fit the appearance stereotypes either - including the black Hispanics (Cuban/DR), the Indians from Africa and the South American Germans. There are a number of Phillipinos that can pass as Spanish and Asian.

Of course people categorize by color. They also categorize by gender and age. There have been a lot of studies showing what people notice first about a person they meet. So what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And what race box did you check?

What does checking a race box have to do with anything? We're talking about fitting in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It does not help that we have a President who is doing everything he can to divide this country along racial and economic lines

how? By being black?

It is pretty evident that some people view the mere fact of his race as divisive. To the best of my knowledge, the only two times he even remotely touched on race were in relation to Gates and Martin, and even then all he did was ask for some perspective from other people's shoes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is pretty evident that some people view the mere fact of his race as divisive.

Well, that, plus his religion (Islam), and his foreign birth...

(No, no, no, I don't believe this.)