Bullis v. Landon v. St. Andrews

[Anonymous]

What do you mean by good placement? Sidwell/STA type placement (20+% of class going to Ivies/MIT/Stanford) or Landon type placement (10% going to Ivies/MIT/Stanford). My guess is that Bullis is below neighboring Wootton with regards to placement. Not only did Wootton place more students at top schools (19/20 students accepted in 2013 compared to 22 by Bullis between 2009 and 2013) but the average SAT at Churchill is almost 100 higher than that at Bullis. I am not knocking Bulllis but I don't understand the value proposition. If you live in one of the W/B-CC/RM districts or can get your kid into Blair, why spend money for Bullis. We looked at the school and we like the facilities and student body but we could not get over the cost issue. I know people joke about Bullis being the the public school where you can pay tuition but the thought crossed my mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by good placement? Sidwell/STA type placement (20+% of class going to Ivies/MIT/Stanford) or Landon type placement (10% going to Ivies/MIT/Stanford). My guess is that Bullis is below neighboring Wootton with regards to placement. Not only did Wootton place more students at top schools (19/20 students accepted in 2013 compared to 22 by Bullis between 2009 and 2013) but the average SAT at Churchill is almost 100 higher than that at Bullis. I am not knocking Bulllis but I don't understand the value proposition. If you live in one of the W/B-CC/RM districts or can get your kid into Blair, why spend money for Bullis. We looked at the school and we like the facilities and student body but we could not get over the cost issue. I know people joke about Bullis being the the public school where you can pay tuition but the thought crossed my mind.

I have my qualms about Bullis -- they've jumped into the big time sports rat race with a vengeance, I guess as a marketing move -- but I do think there is value to being in a smaller overall school, with small classes, lots of writing, and lots of personal attention from teachers, advisors, coaches, college counselors, even for the "average kid." I'm a public school graduate myself, so I'm not a blind defender of the private school route, but I never question that there is value there. An average athlete can play a varsity sport (although obviously in the sports Bullis recruits for there may not be any real playing opportunities); an average student will get lots of one-on-one feedback without having to be a discipline problem to get it; and at college time the "kid in the middle" can get a lot of good time and attention from college counselors. Your standout student or standout athlete may not benefit as much as the more average kid -- they will shine anywhere. And whether it's "worth the money" depends a lot on how much money you have! Some families can easily drop $80,000 a year for two kids in private school with no impact, for others, you have to do a serious cost/benefit analysis and, yes, the good MoCo schools are part of that analysis.

[Anonymous]

08:11, I generally agree but I you could higher a tutor and your own personal college counselor to get the attention discussed above.

[Anonymous]

I write as the father of two recent Bullis School graduates, both of whom are at schools ranked in the top ten of national universities in US News and World Report. I don't like even writing that last part because I do not think that is the only measure of the excellent well rounded education both of our children received at Bullis. We are a Northwest DC family and chose Bullis over a number of other excellent independent schools. The level of vitriol directed at Bullis on DCUM is really quite shocking and ignorant. If you are happy with your own children's school---great. I am happy for you. If you are mad at Bullis for some reason and have an axe to grind, I am sorry to hear that. You shouldn't, however, need to shore up your own ego or validate your own choices by constantly bashing other schools and other peoples' choices. I would urge anyone reading this thread to give Bullis a fair look. The school provides a wonderful well rounded education in academics, the arts and athletics. The small classes allow for individualized attention. The school has an excellent web of transportation choices throughout the metropolitan area. It has the most beautiful and well-equipped campus of any school in this area. The school is an inclusive, kind and welcoming community. Unlike many posters here, I write as someone who actually knows Bullis and I hope you will take a look at the school for your own family. We are very glad we did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:08:11, I generally agree but I you could higher a tutor and your own personal college counselor to get the attention discussed above.

Have a child sit in class for 6 hours a day bored and not getting anything out of it, then have them sit for 2 hours a night with a tutor for real instruction, then do 2-3 hours of homework. Offer them mediocre arts and sports.

That is your suggestion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I write as the father of two recent Bullis School graduates, both of whom are at schools ranked in the top ten of national universities in US News and World Report. I don't like even writing that last part because I do not think that is the only measure of the excellent well rounded education both of our children received at Bullis. We are a Northwest DC family and chose Bullis over a number of other excellent independent schools. The level of vitriol directed at Bullis on DCUM is really quite shocking and ignorant. If you are happy with your own children's school---great. I am happy for you. If you are mad at Bullis for some reason and have an axe to grind, I am sorry to hear that. You shouldn't, however, need to shore up your own ego or validate your own choices by constantly bashing other schools and other peoples' choices. I would urge anyone reading this thread to give Bullis a fair look. The school provides a wonderful well rounded education in academics, the arts and athletics. The small classes allow for individualized attention. The school has an excellent web of transportation choices throughout the metropolitan area. It has the most beautiful and well-equipped campus of any school in this area. The school is an inclusive, kind and welcoming community. Unlike many posters here, I write as someone who actually knows Bullis and I hope you will take a look at the school for your own family. We are very glad we did.

You might also want to direct this to your fellow Bullis parents who have no problem making nasty comments about other schools and programs as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to be a Landon parent to see the obvious. The new headmaster of Bullis specifically wants to expand Bullis to be a powerhouse athletic school after many years of being a doormat similar to Good Counsel. You can deny it all you want but that's what they are pursuing. Bullis parents just seem so defensive about this especially when they are cheering the football team on.

This is not really a Bullis issue, a Landon issue, or unique to any particular school. The problem is that for some reason heads of independent schools -- including both schools in the suburbs and in DC -- have drank some spiked water over the past few years making them susceptible to believing a relatively modest number of voices telling them this is what kids/families want and that they need to do to recruit and build big time team sport athletic programs to remain competitive, to attract alumni donations, etc. Parents who are not supportive seem to be silent in their own schools thinking that this does not affect my child. But it does impact how school time, money and other resources -- including financial aid -- are allocated in schools. For my tuition money, independent schools should not be attempting to compete with the Catholic private schools for dominance in team sports through recruiting. I have no problem if one school does very well because it happens to have a student who is very talented and works to nurture that gift, but I do not want my children's school bringing in students who are there primarily to play a given sport and would not have likely found their way to even apply to the school (and the school would not be interested in them) but for their athletic prowess in a given sport. I have nothing against students who enjoy sports (I have one), and schools that would be interested in a kid generally based on his/her academic profile independent of sports surely can take athletics into consideration as a factor of something extra they add to the school all other things equal in admissions, but recruiting students affirmatively for athletics seems to be where schools become at risk of bringing in students that cannot meet their usual academic profile. Sadly, this is becoming a more common practice among DC independents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:08:11, I generally agree but I you could higher a tutor and your own personal college counselor to get the attention discussed above.

Have a child sit in class for 6 hours a day bored and not getting anything out of it, then have them sit for 2 hours a night with a tutor for real instruction, then do 2-3 hours of homework. Offer them mediocre arts and sports.

That is your suggestion.

Not sure I understand. Students who are motivated, self starters would greatly benefit from tutors. My point is that you don't need to pay Bullis tuition to get the college placement attention and academic support. You can attend a great public school and supplement the experience with outside tutors and college advisers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to be a Landon parent to see the obvious. The new headmaster of Bullis specifically wants to expand Bullis to be a powerhouse athletic school after many years of being a doormat similar to Good Counsel. You can deny it all you want but that's what they are pursuing. Bullis parents just seem so defensive about this especially when they are cheering the football team on.

This is not really a Bullis issue, a Landon issue, or unique to any particular school. The problem is that for some reason heads of independent schools -- including both schools in the suburbs and in DC -- have drank some spiked water over the past few years making them susceptible to believing a relatively modest number of voices telling them this is what kids/families want and that they need to do to recruit and build big time team sport athletic programs to remain competitive, to attract alumni donations, etc. Parents who are not supportive seem to be silent in their own schools thinking that this does not affect my child. But it does impact how school time, money and other resources -- including financial aid -- are allocated in schools. For my tuition money, independent schools should not be attempting to compete with the Catholic private schools for dominance in team sports through recruiting. I have no problem if one school does very well because it happens to have a student who is very talented and works to nurture that gift, but I do not want my children's school bringing in students who are there primarily to play a given sport and would not have likely found their way to even apply to the school (and the school would not be interested in them) but for their athletic prowess in a given sport. I have nothing against students who enjoy sports (I have one), and schools that would be interested in a kid generally based on his/her academic profile independent of sports surely can take athletics into consideration as a factor of something extra they add to the school all other things equal in admissions, but recruiting students affirmatively for athletics seems to be where schools become at risk of bringing in students that cannot meet their usual academic profile. Sadly, this is becoming a more common practice among DC independents.

Your description could easily be of Ivy League schools. They do all that and more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you compare the college placement lists between the 2 schools over the past 4 years. One year is not a large enough sample size to make a full blown conclusion.

Bullis has always been known as the reform school for the wealthy.

Just as Landon has forever been known as the school of boorish behavior. Cheaters, rapists, murders, fantasy sex leagues, etc.

[Anonymous]

Boy this discussion makes SAES look pretty good! Kudos to those parents who don't feel the need to go tit-for-tat about their schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:08:11, I generally agree but I you could higher a tutor and your own personal college counselor to get the attention discussed above.

Have a child sit in class for 6 hours a day bored and not getting anything out of it, then have them sit for 2 hours a night with a tutor for real instruction, then do 2-3 hours of homework. Offer them mediocre arts and sports.

That is your suggestion.

Not sure I understand. Students who are motivated, self starters would greatly benefit from tutors. My point is that you don't need to pay Bullis tuition to get the college placement attention and academic support. You can attend a great public school and supplement the experience with outside tutors and college advisers.

It the difference in what happens from 7am-3pm. Lecture classroom are painfully boring for some kids even intelligent, motivated children. Every time I go to a conference it reminds me how incredible bored students must get by the mind numbing lecture classes.

It's not always about college placement, not everybody is about the end game, many of us are about the journey. I agree it is a luxury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to be a Landon parent to see the obvious. The new headmaster of Bullis specifically wants to expand Bullis to be a powerhouse athletic school after many years of being a doormat similar to Good Counsel. You can deny it all you want but that's what they are pursuing. Bullis parents just seem so defensive about this especially when they are cheering the football team on.

This is not really a Bullis issue, a Landon issue, or unique to any particular school. The problem is that for some reason heads of independent schools -- including both schools in the suburbs and in DC -- have drank some spiked water over the past few years making them susceptible to believing a relatively modest number of voices telling them this is what kids/families want and that they need to do to recruit and build big time team sport athletic programs to remain competitive, to attract alumni donations, etc. Parents who are not supportive seem to be silent in their own schools thinking that this does not affect my child. But it does impact how school time, money and other resources -- including financial aid -- are allocated in schools. For my tuition money, independent schools should not be attempting to compete with the Catholic private schools for dominance in team sports through recruiting. I have no problem if one school does very well because it happens to have a student who is very talented and works to nurture that gift, but I do not want my children's school bringing in students who are there primarily to play a given sport and would not have likely found their way to even apply to the school (and the school would not be interested in them) but for their athletic prowess in a given sport. I have nothing against students who enjoy sports (I have one), and schools that would be interested in a kid generally based on his/her academic profile independent of sports surely can take athletics into consideration as a factor of something extra they add to the school all other things equal in admissions, but recruiting students affirmatively for athletics seems to be where schools become at risk of bringing in students that cannot meet their usual academic profile. Sadly, this is becoming a more common practice among DC independents.

So you think every athletic kid should go to a Catholic school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to be a Landon parent to see the obvious. The new headmaster of Bullis specifically wants to expand Bullis to be a powerhouse athletic school after many years of being a doormat similar to Good Counsel. You can deny it all you want but that's what they are pursuing. Bullis parents just seem so defensive about this especially when they are cheering the football team on.

This is not really a Bullis issue, a Landon issue, or unique to any particular school. The problem is that for some reason heads of independent schools -- including both schools in the suburbs and in DC -- have drank some spiked water over the past few years making them susceptible to believing a relatively modest number of voices telling them this is what kids/families want and that they need to do to recruit and build big time team sport athletic programs to remain competitive, to attract alumni donations, etc. Parents who are not supportive seem to be silent in their own schools thinking that this does not affect my child. But it does impact how school time, money and other resources -- including financial aid -- are allocated in schools. For my tuition money, independent schools should not be attempting to compete with the Catholic private schools for dominance in team sports through recruiting. I have no problem if one school does very well because it happens to have a student who is very talented and works to nurture that gift, but I do not want my children's school bringing in students who are there primarily to play a given sport and would not have likely found their way to even apply to the school (and the school would not be interested in them) but for their athletic prowess in a given sport. I have nothing against students who enjoy sports (I have one), and schools that would be interested in a kid generally based on his/her academic profile independent of sports surely can take athletics into consideration as a factor of something extra they add to the school all other things equal in admissions, but recruiting students affirmatively for athletics seems to be where schools become at risk of bringing in students that cannot meet their usual academic profile. Sadly, this is becoming a more common practice among DC independents.

Your description could easily be of Ivy League schools. They do all that and more.

Maybe so, I don't know. But it isn't really relevant either way. There are huge differences in size, social structure, student /child development, endowments, faculty size, community feel, etc. between independents and ivy league schools. And some of our local independents are recruiting players -- not all -- but enough to be noticeable, who can barely (or cannot) maintain high school academic standards in the easiest courses offered who would never be in the running for the ivy league even given their sports talents. To be sure, there are some very smart, hard working scholar-athletes in independent schools, but the recruiting is misguidedly poisoning the well for all.

[Anonymous]

17:32 the sad thing is your are probably a lonely grown adult who gets off to putting down a school you hate so much.

The alleged rapist you are talking about is working at Goldman Sach's and is doing quite well for himself and probably doesnt have time to defind himself to lonely scum such as yourself.

What about the Georgetown Prep lacrosse coach who killed someone in a DUI accident - you don't hear much about that story do you?