Possible absence seizures

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, kids with ASDs have a huge propensity for seizure disorders. I think its 25 to 30%. (Attention, 15:34) before you jump down my throat, I know OP didn't mention an ASD, but she did mention SN and if she is a teacher of kids with SN she has surely had this issue flagged for her.. Many of us do have children with ASDs, so thats the reason we are more attuned to it and our kids' teachers may be more attuned to it. I have two sibs with ASDs and they both have seizure disorders. I know others. Thats why so many of us are familiar with it, because this is the SN section, not because of an "east coast thing."

Second, the OP was going to talk to the nurse, so this wasn't about a teacher taking it into her own hands.

I don't know what politics have to do with it. I'm as left wing as they come and I'm absolutely certain that if the nurse at my DC's school suspected an absence seizure, I would want her to tell me. Nothing nanny state about it. It is incomprehensible to me why everyone is so OFFENDED by someone with medical training point out a possible issue.

So lets lay out why early intervention for absence seizures is critical. First of all, they absolutely can be a sign of a tumor. I am the PP whose friend's child was saved because the school nurse had the conversation that seems to offend so many of you.

Second, absence seizures can develop into grand mal seizures if untreated. This is what happened to my brother. Grand mal seizures can cause serious damage to the heart. I know a family that had a child with an ASD who died during a seizure.

And i think if parents aren't told the reason why they should have it checked out, they may not. Not everyone knows what an absence seizure is or that it would be what the nurse was concerned about.

Some of you have accused me of being hysterical and bringing on some kind of nanny state affliction. What I don't understand is how the downside of having the nurse flag it (as in "we are seeing something that could be an absence seizure, we don't know, please check it out") outweighs the risk of not being explicit about the concern with the parent. What is the downside? Annoyance? Your feelings might be hurt? You feel intimidated by the school or it makes you anxious to have the nurse say such a thing? you resent it? The child may turn out not to have anything at all (I say "yay" to that -- a happy ending.) Do any of those things come close to outweighing the risk to health and even life thats at stake here.

No, she did not mention SN at all. See her original post below. She presumably posted here thinking she'd get reasonable advice. For the most part she's been proven wrong in that regard.

I am a teacher and I am concerned that one of my students is having repeated absence seizures. Of course, I am not a physician, but what I've observed is very similar to what I've read about and seen on youtube. I am going to speak to the nurse, and then also to the parent (just saying "here is what I have observed.") Unfortunately, the parent is very poor and has a very limited education. What would you parents out there recommend for a teacher in my position?

[Anonymous]

Thank you, 16:14! Completely agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, kids with ASDs have a huge propensity for seizure disorders. I think its 25 to 30%. (Attention, 15:34) before you jump down my throat, I know OP didn't mention an ASD, but she did mention SN and if she is a teacher of kids with SN she has surely had this issue flagged for her.. Many of us do have children with ASDs, so thats the reason we are more attuned to it and our kids' teachers may be more attuned to it. I have two sibs with ASDs and they both have seizure disorders. I know others. Thats why so many of us are familiar with it, because this is the SN section, not because of an "east coast thing."

Second, the OP was going to talk to the nurse, so this wasn't about a teacher taking it into her own hands.

I don't know what politics have to do with it. I'm as left wing as they come and I'm absolutely certain that if the nurse at my DC's school suspected an absence seizure, I would want her to tell me. Nothing nanny state about it. It is incomprehensible to me why everyone is so OFFENDED by someone with medical training point out a possible issue.

So lets lay out why early intervention for absence seizures is critical. First of all, they absolutely can be a sign of a tumor. I am the PP whose friend's child was saved because the school nurse had the conversation that seems to offend so many of you.

Second, absence seizures can develop into grand mal seizures if untreated. This is what happened to my brother. Grand mal seizures can cause serious damage to the heart. I know a family that had a child with an ASD who died during a seizure.

And i think if parents aren't told the reason why they should have it checked out, they may not. Not everyone knows what an absence seizure is or that it would be what the nurse was concerned about.

Some of you have accused me of being hysterical and bringing on some kind of nanny state affliction. What I don't understand is how the downside of having the nurse flag it (as in "we are seeing something that could be an absence seizure, we don't know, please check it out") outweighs the risk of not being explicit about the concern with the parent. What is the downside? Annoyance? Your feelings might be hurt? You feel intimidated by the school or it makes you anxious to have the nurse say such a thing? you resent it? The child may turn out not to have anything at all (I say "yay" to that -- a happy ending.) Do any of those things come close to outweighing the risk to health and even life thats at stake here.

You have transformed this from the teacher telling the nurse to the nurse observing seizures. That's the problem for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, kids with ASDs have a huge propensity for seizure disorders. I think its 25 to 30%. (Attention, 15:34) before you jump down my throat, I know OP didn't mention an ASD, but she did mention SN and if she is a teacher of kids with SN she has surely had this issue flagged for her.. Many of us do have children with ASDs, so thats the reason we are more attuned to it and our kids' teachers may be more attuned to it. I have two sibs with ASDs and they both have seizure disorders. I know others. Thats why so many of us are familiar with it, because this is the SN section, not because of an "east coast thing."

Second, the OP was going to talk to the nurse, so this wasn't about a teacher taking it into her own hands.

I don't know what politics have to do with it. I'm as left wing as they come and I'm absolutely certain that if the nurse at my DC's school suspected an absence seizure, I would want her to tell me. Nothing nanny state about it. It is incomprehensible to me why everyone is so OFFENDED by someone with medical training point out a possible issue.

So lets lay out why early intervention for absence seizures is critical. First of all, they absolutely can be a sign of a tumor. I am the PP whose friend's child was saved because the school nurse had the conversation that seems to offend so many of you.

Second, absence seizures can develop into grand mal seizures if untreated. This is what happened to my brother. Grand mal seizures can cause serious damage to the heart. I know a family that had a child with an ASD who died during a seizure.

And i think if parents aren't told the reason why they should have it checked out, they may not. Not everyone knows what an absence seizure is or that it would be what the nurse was concerned about.

Some of you have accused me of being hysterical and bringing on some kind of nanny state affliction. What I don't understand is how the downside of having the nurse flag it (as in "we are seeing something that could be an absence seizure, we don't know, please check it out") outweighs the risk of not being explicit about the concern with the parent. What is the downside? Annoyance? Your feelings might be hurt? You feel intimidated by the school or it makes you anxious to have the nurse say such a thing? you resent it? The child may turn out not to have anything at all (I say "yay" to that -- a happy ending.) Do any of those things come close to outweighing the risk to health and even life thats at stake here.

I am 15:26. Go read what I wrote. My husband has a history of grand mal and absence seizures (as a child and they went away after several years) so I know all about them, thank you very much. I also know that, while I appreciated my son's teacher bringing her observations to my attention, what I did not appreciate was the absolute hysterics that followed with suggestions of LD/SPED and other nonsense being thrown around willy-nilly. Again, as it turns out, my son was fine. He is three for Chrissakes and was having a hard time with the transition to preschool. "Blanking out" for him was not seizures (as confirmed by three actual MD neurologists, thank you) but his way of protecting himself when he was feeling overwhelmed. This is perfectly normal. Previous daycare workers suggested ASD and our pediatrician LOL'd when we told her that, because he exhibits ZERO signs of ASD. But of course, just having someone say that (someone who, while lovely and a great care provider, doesn't even hold a BA and is not a child neuropsych) causes undue anxiety in first time parents.

So for all of you who deal with these issues, and have your wonderful stories of problems caught, great. Those of us advocating for teachers to know their place and to be very careful with how they speak to parents about these issues are not crazy awful parents who care more about our anxiety than we do about our children. Even suggesting that is hateful and totally unnecessary. All we are saying is that, especially for very young children, there may be multiple explanations and it is not a teacher's job to suggest a diagnosis, only to bring concerns and descriptions of specific behaviors to the attention of parents. Then it is the parents' job to determine next steps and to explore school resources if they wish. Trying to push OT and child psychs and all other manner of "help" when it is not determined that it is warranted or wanted is a step too far.

And the nanny state stuff came in because one of the uber-hysterical posters here suggested a law that would allow school nurses the power to enforce medical evaluations based on their unofficial diagnoses, which is just straight up crazy talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

You know what, you bitches are overly hysterical. I am not saying that the teacher shouldn't bring concerns to the parents' attention, only that they should be very careful how they do it because they are NOT TRAINED IN NEUROLOGY. Your assessment of my "reasoning" is way off base and says more about your lack of reasoning ability than it does about mine.

Now go take your Xanax and STFU.

Wait a minute - who exactly needs a Xanax? Who is cursing and getting hysterical?

Like I said, a touchy subject for some...

Well, when you are dense, putting words in people's mouths, and display a lack of reading comprehension, then I feel the need to express myself a little bit forcefully since apparently you need me to be very blunt so you can understand my meaning. Glad I've cleared up the confusion for you.

I'm definitely confused - why are you getting so worked up about this? Teacher, nurse, OT see something unusual. They see lots of kids and have a good baseline for "normal". Why not get it checked out?

Go read my post at 16:30. I NEVER SAID DON'T GET IT CHECKED OUT. I SAID THAT TEACHERS NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT OFFERING THEIR UNTRAINED DIAGNOSES. Are you this stupid? Learn how to read, and then I won't get worked up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, kids with ASDs have a huge propensity for seizure disorders. I think its 25 to 30%. (Attention, 15:34) before you jump down my throat, I know OP didn't mention an ASD, but she did mention SN and if she is a teacher of kids with SN she has surely had this issue flagged for her.. Many of us do have children with ASDs, so thats the reason we are more attuned to it and our kids' teachers may be more attuned to it. I have two sibs with ASDs and they both have seizure disorders. I know others. Thats why so many of us are familiar with it, because this is the SN section, not because of an "east coast thing."

Second, the OP was going to talk to the nurse, so this wasn't about a teacher taking it into her own hands.

I don't know what politics have to do with it. I'm as left wing as they come and I'm absolutely certain that if the nurse at my DC's school suspected an absence seizure, I would want her to tell me. Nothing nanny state about it. It is incomprehensible to me why everyone is so OFFENDED by someone with medical training point out a possible issue.

So lets lay out why early intervention for absence seizures is critical. First of all, they absolutely can be a sign of a tumor. I am the PP whose friend's child was saved because the school nurse had the conversation that seems to offend so many of you.

Second, absence seizures can develop into grand mal seizures if untreated. This is what happened to my brother. Grand mal seizures can cause serious damage to the heart. I know a family that had a child with an ASD who died during a seizure.

And i think if parents aren't told the reason why they should have it checked out, they may not. Not everyone knows what an absence seizure is or that it would be what the nurse was concerned about.

Some of you have accused me of being hysterical and bringing on some kind of nanny state affliction. What I don't understand is how the downside of having the nurse flag it (as in "we are seeing something that could be an absence seizure, we don't know, please check it out") outweighs the risk of not being explicit about the concern with the parent. What is the downside? Annoyance? Your feelings might be hurt? You feel intimidated by the school or it makes you anxious to have the nurse say such a thing? you resent it? The child may turn out not to have anything at all (I say "yay" to that -- a happy ending.) Do any of those things come close to outweighing the risk to health and even life thats at stake here.

You have transformed this from the teacher telling the nurse to the nurse observing seizures. That's the problem for me.

Exactly. You are all projecting your own experiences, which doesn't even answer OP's original question and is totally 100% not helpful to her.

[Anonymous]

Aha. So you are also upset about an ASD "suggestion" from a daycare worker. Now we're getting somewhere. A bit of a tangent, but I can see how this all might upset you.

And sorry, but a daycare worker is not a teaching professional in my book. But you probably already know that.

Anyway, this all helps explain why you are so upset about this and why you posted insults and profanity.

[Anonymous]

16:30, you have a lot of concerns there, a lot of experiences that upset you. The vast majority of those experiences have nothing to do with seizures. "Absolute hysterics about LD issues"? "OTs and psychs?" None of that has anything to do with OP, though it does help explain the intensity of your emotions here. It sounds like the one thing you did appreciate was being told to check out possible absence seizures. So it just sounds like your anger here is misplaced. Maybe you need to start another thread about your anger at how they handled possible developmental issues. But that is an entirely different topic.

[Anonymous]

I don't agree. I think 16:30's point is valid for the OP. This is not a question of whether the teacher should or shouldn't do something. It's a question of how the teacher goes about doing it and recognizing what's constructive and what is outside the teacher's expertise.

[Anonymous]

Well, it's not for an ASD but a physical disorder that can be detrimental like a brain tumor. Doubtful the parents would be offended about getting it checked out. My parents weren't. I was the pp who was evaluated for seizures and grateful that it was done.

[Anonymous]

^^^. And to add, how funny and sad no one would take offense at the suggestion of a physical issue (even grateful) but to suggest ASD? You need the utmost diplomacy.

[Anonymous]

I just want to say im glad im not the only parent out that that has checked my sn kid into a hospital overnight, rung up nearly 10k in insurance charges and had him sedated to investigated concerns about possible seizures or other brain activity from other professionals, only to discover there was none of that. I thought i was the only person who has done this.

[Anonymous]

My son has partial epilepsy with absent seizures. The problem with absent seizures is that they are hard to diagnose by most people but often can be the precursor to much bigger seizure activity. In retrospect, we think my ds had seizure like activity for a while prior to his major episode of near constant seizures that led to a major neuro stay at the hospital. When activity is suspected, it really is crucial to get an EEG asap and if a teacher has documented proof of events that should warrant an EEG. So as a teacher, videotape it if you're allowed and mark down when, how frequently and the duration of these episodes. Also, get a second adult to see what your seeing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't agree. I think 16:30's point is valid for the OP. This is not a question of whether the teacher should or shouldn't do something. It's a question of how the teacher goes about doing it and recognizing what's constructive and what is outside the teacher's expertise.

16:30 here. Bingo, PP. You win the reading comprehension award for the day. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^. And to add, how funny and sad no one would take offense at the suggestion of a physical issue (even grateful) but to suggest ASD? You need the utmost diplomacy.

I didn't take offense. More putting words in my mouth and projecting your own issues. What I took offense at was someone who was not qualified - and no, a teacher with a degree isn't either - trying to diagnose my child and causing undue stress.