Possible absence seizures

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't like the teacher/nurse are providing a real diagnosis. They are just providing their observations for parents. Hopefully parents will follow up on those instead of getting into a huff about "crossing the line."

"Absence seizures" is not an observation. It's a diagnosis. Observation would be that the child is blanking out.

A nurse who says "I am concerned that your child is having absence seizures, you should bring her to a doctor," is not providing a diagnosis. What do you want her to say "take your child to a doctor, I can't tell you why." Seriously? or "your child is blanking out." Do you think most parents would even understand what the concern is? I am familiar with that because I have family members with epilepsy but i would bet that if you said to most parents "I am concerned because your child is blanking out" that they would have no idea what you were talking about. Even with my knowledge I would be wondering if they meant ADHD or something else. And you know what I or any other parents would then say, including you? "What do you mean blanking out? Why do you want me to take her to the doctor?"

Seriously, you are being completely ridiculous. I am glad to know that responsible school nurses would never follow this advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't like the teacher/nurse are providing a real diagnosis. They are just providing their observations for parents. Hopefully parents will follow up on those instead of getting into a huff about "crossing the line."

"Absence seizures" is not an observation. It's a diagnosis. Observation would be that the child is blanking out.

A nurse who says "I am concerned that your child is having absence seizures, you should bring her to a doctor," is not providing a diagnosis. What do you want her to say "take your child to a doctor, I can't tell you why." Seriously? or "your child is blanking out." Do you think most parents would even understand what the concern is? I am familiar with that because I have family members with epilepsy but i would bet that if you said to most parents "I am concerned because your child is blanking out" that they would have no idea what you were talking about. Even with my knowledge I would be wondering if they meant ADHD or something else. And you know what I or any other parents would then say, including you? "What do you mean blanking out? Why do you want me to take her to the doctor?"

Seriously, you are being completely ridiculous. I am glad to know that responsible school nurses would never follow this advice.

I want that nurse to say "Here's what I have observed" and then DESCRIBE THE BEHAVIOR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't like the teacher/nurse are providing a real diagnosis. They are just providing their observations for parents. Hopefully parents will follow up on those instead of getting into a huff about "crossing the line."

"Absence seizures" is not an observation. It's a diagnosis. Observation would be that the child is blanking out.

A nurse who says "I am concerned that your child is having absence seizures, you should bring her to a doctor," is not providing a diagnosis. What do you want her to say "take your child to a doctor, I can't tell you why." Seriously? or "your child is blanking out." Do you think most parents would even understand what the concern is? I am familiar with that because I have family members with epilepsy but i would bet that if you said to most parents "I am concerned because your child is blanking out" that they would have no idea what you were talking about. Even with my knowledge I would be wondering if they meant ADHD or something else. And you know what I or any other parents would then say, including you? "What do you mean blanking out? Why do you want me to take her to the doctor?"

Seriously, you are being completely ridiculous. I am glad to know that responsible school nurses would never follow this advice.

I want that nurse to say "Here's what I have observed" and then DESCRIBE THE BEHAVIOR.

OK, let's play this out.

Nurse: Here is what I observed. Your child was staring blankly ahead, completely zoned out and unaware of his surroundings and then he came to, and became aware. I have seen this several times."
Parent: OK, I will have a talk with him and ask him to pay better attention.
Nurse: Well, I think this is something you should bring to the attention of his doctor.
Parent: Why?
Nurse: Its something his doctor should check out.
Parent: why?
Nurse: Its something his doctor should check out.
Parent: Do you think its ADHD?
Nurse: I don't know what it is, your doctor should check it out.
Parent: OK, we have a psychologist who specializes in ADHD, we'll go to him.
Nurse: No, I mean a medical doctor.
Parent: Why?
Nurse: Just tell the doctor what I told you.
Parent: well I don't see the problem here, so I don't think its necessary.

Or it could go like this:

Nurse: I've seen your child blanking out . . . . Its probably nothing but there is a possibility that it is something called an absence seizure, which is a kind of seizure where the person blanks out. I don't know if that is what is going on, but you should being him to the doctor to have it checked out.
Parent: Of course. I'm concerned but I will do that.

I mean, seriously. What is your aversion to having a conversation that is actually effective. I know as a parent I would be spitting mad if a nurse played hide-the-ball like you suggest. I'm not stupid. Don't treat me like a child. Share your concern with me so I can take care of my child.

[Anonymous]

You've got a hammer, and everything is a nail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn't like the teacher/nurse are providing a real diagnosis. They are just providing their observations for parents. Hopefully parents will follow up on those instead of getting into a huff about "crossing the line."

"Absence seizures" is not an observation. It's a diagnosis. Observation would be that the child is blanking out.

A nurse who says "I am concerned that your child is having absence seizures, you should bring her to a doctor," is not providing a diagnosis. What do you want her to say "take your child to a doctor, I can't tell you why." Seriously? or "your child is blanking out." Do you think most parents would even understand what the concern is? I am familiar with that because I have family members with epilepsy but i would bet that if you said to most parents "I am concerned because your child is blanking out" that they would have no idea what you were talking about. Even with my knowledge I would be wondering if they meant ADHD or something else. And you know what I or any other parents would then say, including you? "What do you mean blanking out? Why do you want me to take her to the doctor?"

Seriously, you are being completely ridiculous. I am glad to know that responsible school nurses would never follow this advice.

I want that nurse to say "Here's what I have observed" and then DESCRIBE THE BEHAVIOR.

OK, let's play this out.

Nurse: Here is what I observed. Your child was staring blankly ahead, completely zoned out and unaware of his surroundings and then he came to, and became aware. I have seen this several times."
Parent: OK, I will have a talk with him and ask him to pay better attention.
Nurse: Well, I think this is something you should bring to the attention of his doctor.
Parent: Why?
Nurse: Its something his doctor should check out.
Parent: why?
Nurse: Its something his doctor should check out.
Parent: Do you think its ADHD?
Nurse: I don't know what it is, your doctor should check it out.
Parent: OK, we have a psychologist who specializes in ADHD, we'll go to him.
Nurse: No, I mean a medical doctor.
Parent: Why?
Nurse: Just tell the doctor what I told you.
Parent: well I don't see the problem here, so I don't think its necessary.

Or it could go like this:

Nurse: I've seen your child blanking out . . . . Its probably nothing but there is a possibility that it is something called an absence seizure, which is a kind of seizure where the person blanks out. I don't know if that is what is going on, but you should being him to the doctor to have it checked out.
Parent: Of course. I'm concerned but I will do that.

I mean, seriously. What is your aversion to having a conversation that is actually effective. I know as a parent I would be spitting mad if a nurse played hide-the-ball like you suggest. I'm not stupid. Don't treat me like a child. Share your concern with me so I can take care of my child.

As someone who has just been reading this thread, I'm not sure who the NURSE is that's observed this. The OP was a teacher, a teacher who watched a YouTube video.

[Anonymous]

She was going to speak with the nurse. Presumably the nurse is handling the situation and the entire issue is moot.

The teacher is concerned. Her concern may or may not be well placed, but she isn't concerned because of the you tube video, she's concerned because of what she observed in the classroom. And she's bringing that concern to the school nurse, which is what she should do.

The only question for me is why so many parents here wouldn't want a straight conversation with their school nurse about a potentially serious health problem. I'm the one who would really hate the idea of school folks acting like I can't handle it. This is my child. You explain, I decide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She was going to speak with the nurse. Presumably the nurse is handling the situation and the entire issue is moot.

The teacher is concerned. Her concern may or may not be well placed, but she isn't concerned because of the you tube video, she's concerned because of what she observed in the classroom. And she's bringing that concern to the school nurse, which is what she should do.

The only question for me is why so many parents here wouldn't want a straight conversation with their school nurse about a potentially serious health problem. I'm the one who would really hate the idea of school folks acting like I can't handle it. This is my child. You explain, I decide.

These are your assumptions. No one here has said that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would caution going too far out of your lane. We've had educators do this and create problems. We were told our child seemed to be having seizures by the school OT and then the principal. We met with a neurologist and took our child in for an EEG. After all the stress that this unleashed, we found out that there was nothing wrong/everything was normal. The OT was still not convinced and tried to get us to have an MRI. Our neurologist refused.

EEGs frequently cannot detect epilepsy unless the person is actively having a seizure or had one within a few hours. I'm surprised you didn't want to do the MRI just to rule out some bad possibilities.

If you're trying to suggest that an MRI would have shown a tumor or abnormality, that would hardly have resulted in just absence seizures.

Really? Because everyone who I know who has had a seizure (except febrile) in the last 10 years have all had MRIs (or CT scans before that). Even those who experience absence seizures. The two neurologists that we've worked with (on two different patients) both suggested one right away to rule out lesions, tumors, or structural abnormalities. And out of the 8 people we know with epilepsy (most from support group) only 2 have had an abnormal EEG. And fortunately everyone has had a normal MRI.

Anyway, I'm surprised the neurologist didn't recommend getting one. Maybe because a parent didn't directly see an episode?

Episode? I'm not sure anybody saw an "episode" with our child. What happened was the OT, who saw our child once a week, was pushing this because of some spacing out that she saw. We went ahead and did the EEG. We as parents hadn't noticed what the OT was describing, but we did it anyway because she was so adamant about it. Once the EEG came back perfectly normal, the neurologist and the pediatrician didn't think further testing, especially an MRI, was necessary. The OT was still sure this was happening and tried to get us to do an MRI. For what it's worth, you can't just walk into Children's and say you'd like an MRI. A doctor has to order it. And our neurologist was against it.

Like I said, I'm just surprised he didn't order one given that it sounds like it's part of the preliminary workup for most patients that present with seizures. I guess the OT's information wasn't compelling enough. Maybe the neuro was waiting to see if he had additional episodes?

And, yes, I'm 100% aware of what is required for a child to have an MRI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She was going to speak with the nurse. Presumably the nurse is handling the situation and the entire issue is moot.

The teacher is concerned. Her concern may or may not be well placed, but she isn't concerned because of the you tube video, she's concerned because of what she observed in the classroom. And she's bringing that concern to the school nurse, which is what she should do.

The only question for me is why so many parents here wouldn't want a straight conversation with their school nurse about a potentially serious health problem. I'm the one who would really hate the idea of school folks acting like I can't handle it. This is my child. You explain, I decide.

yes, I'm missing something too. is there something else going on with the PPs that makes them more touchy about this? maybe another SN issue that makes anything medical/developmental/whatever a more sensitive topic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She was going to speak with the nurse. Presumably the nurse is handling the situation and the entire issue is moot.

The teacher is concerned. Her concern may or may not be well placed, but she isn't concerned because of the you tube video, she's concerned because of what she observed in the classroom. And she's bringing that concern to the school nurse, which is what she should do.

[b]The only question for me is why so many parents here wouldn't want a straight conversation with their school nurse about a potentially serious health problem. I'm the one who would really hate the idea of school folks acting like I can't handle it. This is my child. You explain, I decide.[/b]

yes, I'm missing something too. is there something else going on with the PPs that makes them more touchy about this? maybe another SN issue that makes anything medical/developmental/whatever a more sensitive topic?

I don't think parents here are being touchy about this as much as questioning the source. The teacher--not the nurse--is suggesting "possible absence seizures." So every time the nurse is invoked (see above), it's kind of out of nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would caution going too far out of your lane. We've had educators do this and create problems. We were told our child seemed to be having seizures by the school OT and then the principal. We met with a neurologist and took our child in for an EEG. After all the stress that this unleashed, we found out that there was nothing wrong/everything was normal. The OT was still not convinced and tried to get us to have an MRI. Our neurologist refused.

EEGs frequently cannot detect epilepsy unless the person is actively having a seizure or had one within a few hours. I'm surprised you didn't want to do the MRI just to rule out some bad possibilities.

If you're trying to suggest that an MRI would have shown a tumor or abnormality, that would hardly have resulted in just absence seizures.

Really? Because everyone who I know who has had a seizure (except febrile) in the last 10 years have all had MRIs (or CT scans before that). Even those who experience absence seizures. The two neurologists that we've worked with (on two different patients) both suggested one right away to rule out lesions, tumors, or structural abnormalities. And out of the 8 people we know with epilepsy (most from support group) only 2 have had an abnormal EEG. And fortunately everyone has had a normal MRI.

Anyway, I'm surprised the neurologist didn't recommend getting one. Maybe because a parent didn't directly see an episode?

Episode? I'm not sure anybody saw an "episode" with our child. What happened was the OT, who saw our child once a week, was pushing this because of some spacing out that she saw. We went ahead and did the EEG. We as parents hadn't noticed what the OT was describing, but we did it anyway because she was so adamant about it. Once the EEG came back perfectly normal, the neurologist and the pediatrician didn't think further testing, especially an MRI, was necessary. The OT was still sure this was happening and tried to get us to do an MRI. For what it's worth, you can't just walk into Children's and say you'd like an MRI. A doctor has to order it. And our neurologist was against it.

Like I said, I'm just surprised he didn't order one given that it sounds like it's part of the preliminary workup for most patients that present with seizures. I guess the OT's information wasn't compelling enough. Maybe the neuro was waiting to see if he had additional episodes?

And, yes, I'm 100% aware of what is required for a child to have an MRI.

It may "sound like it's part of the preliminary workup for most patients that present with seizures." But our neurologist at Children's didn't think it was necessary. He didn't see this as "part of the preliminary workup." And our child didn't "present with seizures." The OT--repeat, the OT--speculated it was seizures. We went in and had an EEG. The EEG was normal. We as parents never saw anything that resembled a seizure and nobody else did. And yes, after consulting with the neurologist and our developmental pediatrician, we went with their recommendation NOT to do an MRI. Maybe you would have pushed for the MRI. We decided to go with what the doctors advised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

You know what, you bitches are overly hysterical. I am not saying that the teacher shouldn't bring concerns to the parents' attention, only that they should be very careful how they do it because they are NOT TRAINED IN NEUROLOGY. Your assessment of my "reasoning" is way off base and says more about your lack of reasoning ability than it does about mine.

Now go take your Xanax and STFU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

You know what, you bitches are overly hysterical. I am not saying that the teacher shouldn't bring concerns to the parents' attention, only that they should be very careful how they do it because they are NOT TRAINED IN NEUROLOGY. Your assessment of my "reasoning" is way off base and says more about your lack of reasoning ability than it does about mine.

Now go take your Xanax and STFU.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would caution going too far out of your lane. We've had educators do this and create problems. We were told our child seemed to be having seizures by the school OT and then the principal. We met with a neurologist and took our child in for an EEG. After all the stress that this unleashed, we found out that there was nothing wrong/everything was normal. The OT was still not convinced and tried to get us to have an MRI. Our neurologist refused.

EEGs frequently cannot detect epilepsy unless the person is actively having a seizure or had one within a few hours. I'm surprised you didn't want to do the MRI just to rule out some bad possibilities.

If you're trying to suggest that an MRI would have shown a tumor or abnormality, that would hardly have resulted in just absence seizures.

Really? Because everyone who I know who has had a seizure (except febrile) in the last 10 years have all had MRIs (or CT scans before that). Even those who experience absence seizures. The two neurologists that we've worked with (on two different patients) both suggested one right away to rule out lesions, tumors, or structural abnormalities. And out of the 8 people we know with epilepsy (most from support group) only 2 have had an abnormal EEG. And fortunately everyone has had a normal MRI.

Anyway, I'm surprised the neurologist didn't recommend getting one. Maybe because a parent didn't directly see an episode?

Episode? I'm not sure anybody saw an "episode" with our child. What happened was the OT, who saw our child once a week, was pushing this because of some spacing out that she saw. We went ahead and did the EEG. We as parents hadn't noticed what the OT was describing, but we did it anyway because she was so adamant about it. Once the EEG came back perfectly normal, the neurologist and the pediatrician didn't think further testing, especially an MRI, was necessary. The OT was still sure this was happening and tried to get us to do an MRI. For what it's worth, you can't just walk into Children's and say you'd like an MRI. A doctor has to order it. And our neurologist was against it.

Like I said, I'm just surprised he didn't order one given that it sounds like it's part of the preliminary workup for most patients that present with seizures. I guess the OT's information wasn't compelling enough. Maybe the neuro was waiting to see if he had additional episodes?

And, yes, I'm 100% aware of what is required for a child to have an MRI.

Oh, I'm sorry, are you an MD? I went through the EXACT SAME THING as this PP. I could have written her entire post. At the end of the day, we and the neurologists agreed that there were no seizures because A) we had never seen anything and B) his EEG came back 100% normal. A teacher noticing my child losing attention at times does not equal PRESENTING WITH SEIZURES.

You all need to get a grip. It's like you want to push the idea that anything even the littlest bit off MUST be a major issue to be dealt with. In our case, it was not. Our 3.5 year old is perfectly fine and was just having a tough transition to preschool. Three months into the change, he's doing great. Even with having to go through an overnight EEG that I ultimately feel was totally unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would caution going too far out of your lane. We've had educators do this and create problems. We were told our child seemed to be having seizures by the school OT and then the principal. We met with a neurologist and took our child in for an EEG. After all the stress that this unleashed, we found out that there was nothing wrong/everything was normal. The OT was still not convinced and tried to get us to have an MRI. Our neurologist refused.

EEGs frequently cannot detect epilepsy unless the person is actively having a seizure or had one within a few hours. I'm surprised you didn't want to do the MRI just to rule out some bad possibilities.

If you're trying to suggest that an MRI would have shown a tumor or abnormality, that would hardly have resulted in just absence seizures.

Really? Because everyone who I know who has had a seizure (except febrile) in the last 10 years have all had MRIs (or CT scans before that). Even those who experience absence seizures. The two neurologists that we've worked with (on two different patients) both suggested one right away to rule out lesions, tumors, or structural abnormalities. And out of the 8 people we know with epilepsy (most from support group) only 2 have had an abnormal EEG. And fortunately everyone has had a normal MRI.

Anyway, I'm surprised the neurologist didn't recommend getting one. Maybe because a parent didn't directly see an episode?

Episode? I'm not sure anybody saw an "episode" with our child. What happened was the OT, who saw our child once a week, was pushing this because of some spacing out that she saw. We went ahead and did the EEG. We as parents hadn't noticed what the OT was describing, but we did it anyway because she was so adamant about it. Once the EEG came back perfectly normal, the neurologist and the pediatrician didn't think further testing, especially an MRI, was necessary. The OT was still sure this was happening and tried to get us to do an MRI. For what it's worth, you can't just walk into Children's and say you'd like an MRI. A doctor has to order it. And our neurologist was against it.

Like I said, I'm just surprised he didn't order one given that it sounds like it's part of the preliminary workup for most patients that present with seizures. I guess the OT's information wasn't compelling enough. Maybe the neuro was waiting to see if he had additional episodes?

And, yes, I'm 100% aware of what is required for a child to have an MRI.

It may "sound like it's part of the preliminary workup for most patients that present with seizures." But our neurologist at Children's didn't think it was necessary. He didn't see this as "part of the preliminary workup." And our child didn't "present with seizures." The OT--repeat, the OT--speculated it was seizures. We went in and had an EEG. The EEG was normal. We as parents never saw anything that resembled a seizure and nobody else did. And yes, after consulting with the neurologist and our developmental pediatrician, we went with their recommendation NOT to do an MRI. Maybe you would have pushed for the MRI. We decided to go with what the doctors advised.

How dare you not take the advice of the hysterical helicopter mommies on DCUM! BTW, I'm the poster above - wish I knew you. I think we'd have a lot of stories to share.