Possible absence seizures

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You could say something like "From what I have observed Diana seems to kind of blank out every so often. It seems to be the problem could be physical. Have noticed it yourself? You might consider reporting it to the doctor."

Do not mention seizures. Do not diagnose.

I agree 100%. I've had teachers try to diagnose things before and they were totally wrong. It causes a lot of anxiety for parents. This approach is absolutely the right way to go.

If I may ask, how old is this child? We explored this for my son and the reality is, he was just having a hard time with the transition, and is also very bright so therefore also very bored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You could say something like "From what I have observed Diana seems to kind of blank out every so often. It seems to be the problem could be physical. Have noticed it yourself? You might consider reporting it to the doctor."

Do not mention seizures. Do not diagnose.

This, except, I would go a notch further and say "this is something I think you should discuss with a doctor", not just "consider".

Are you in a position where you could possibly take a video of it, to show what you are talking about, but also to give the mother something to show the doctor.

Maybe, "I am telling you this because it is really concerning me. I do not know if there is anything wrong, but if it were my child, I would definitely discuss this with a doctor."

No, no. Now this is going overboard, and sounds naggy. It is not a teacher's job to offer up what they would do unless the parent asks them. Original bolded script above is the right way. Your job is to bring it to the parent's attention, not tell them how to parent.

[Anonymous]

I disagree with the majority of responses to this post. I say it's better to be safe than sorry. I would absolutely want my teacher to bring this to my attention!!!!! Obviously, you are not in the position to diagnose a child, and I don't think that is your aim. But, clearly this is a SN child so absence seizures can be an important consideration. I would approach it with a statement of observation ("I've seen Timmy staring a lot in my class"), followed by a request for the parent's own observations ("Have you also seen this at home?"), followed by a non-alarmist, but impactful statement about the relevance of absence seizures in children with SNs ("I'm not a neurologist and I'm not in the position to diagnose, but I work with SNs kids and I have learned that subclinical seizures are common in kids with autism/SNs and they can have significant negative impact on these children, for example speech disorders. i don't want to alarm you unnecessarily, but I thought you should be aware of what I have observed in case you wish to discuss it with your child's doctor. I would be happy to document these observations so that you can share them with your child's doctor"). FWIW, my child was Dx with autism and was non-verbal. A teacher brought his staring spells to my attn and we conducted a 24 hr eeg. I was shocked to learn that he was having these mild seizures and now that he is on anti-seizure meds my child is talking.

[Anonymous]

@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would caution going too far out of your lane. We've had educators do this and create problems. We were told our child seemed to be having seizures by the school OT and then the principal. We met with a neurologist and took our child in for an EEG. After all the stress that this unleashed, we found out that there was nothing wrong/everything was normal. The OT was still not convinced and tried to get us to have an MRI. Our neurologist refused.

EEGs frequently cannot detect epilepsy unless the person is actively having a seizure or had one within a few hours. I'm surprised you didn't want to do the MRI just to rule out some bad possibilities.

If you're trying to suggest that an MRI would have shown a tumor or abnormality, that would hardly have resulted in just absence seizures.

Really? Because everyone who I know who has had a seizure (except febrile) in the last 10 years have all had MRIs (or CT scans before that). Even those who experience absence seizures. The two neurologists that we've worked with (on two different patients) both suggested one right away to rule out lesions, tumors, or structural abnormalities. And out of the 8 people we know with epilepsy (most from support group) only 2 have had an abnormal EEG. And fortunately everyone has had a normal MRI.

Anyway, I'm surprised the neurologist didn't recommend getting one. Maybe because a parent didn't directly see an episode?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:@16:30 - you are worried about causing anxiety for the parents????? Who cares... child's well-being is at stake! By your reasoning, we should stop recommending annual mammograms for women because it might cause them undue anxiety about developing breast cancer....

Exactly! As soon as we knew something *could* be wrong (as parents) we just wanted to figure it out one way or another. I can't imagine not wanting to know if your child had an issue.

[Anonymous]

My child has epilepsy and you better believe that I would want to know if anything was happening. Get the school nurse involved and don't be vague.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would caution going too far out of your lane. We've had educators do this and create problems. We were told our child seemed to be having seizures by the school OT and then the principal. We met with a neurologist and took our child in for an EEG. After all the stress that this unleashed, we found out that there was nothing wrong/everything was normal. The OT was still not convinced and tried to get us to have an MRI. Our neurologist refused.

EEGs frequently cannot detect epilepsy unless the person is actively having a seizure or had one within a few hours. I'm surprised you didn't want to do the MRI just to rule out some bad possibilities.

If you're trying to suggest that an MRI would have shown a tumor or abnormality, that would hardly have resulted in just absence seizures.

That is absolutely 100% not true. I'm the PP whose friend had a brain tumor and the ONLY symptom when it was diagnosed were absence seizures, and the only way the parents knew was because the school nurse called them. No she did not "diagnose" their child; she told them that it was a possibility they should check out. And she saved that child's life.

I think all of you are blinded by experiences you've had with kids with developmental disorders. I have a child with an ASD so I get it. But this is a medical problem, and you'd better believe I would want to school nurse to flag it. No, a school nurse can't "diagnose" strep, but she can say you need to take your child to the doctor to check out the sore throat and swollen lymph nodes. If nurses aren't going to be on the lookout for health problems, what good are they? Sure sometimes they go to far and that can be annoying. I think you can live with that. I know i wouldn't be able to live with a nurse not telling me she thought my child was having seizures because she didn't think it was her place, and it turned out my child had a brain tumor.

I also have a sibling with epilepsy and had it been diagnosed back when he was having absence seizure, and not when he had a grand mal seizure, he could have avoided some damage. Grand mal seizures can actually kill. This is not even a close call.

[Anonymous]

I meant friend's child, who had the brain tumor.

[Anonymous]

It seems that people who are promoting a much more serious, intrusive, hard line approach are extrapolating backward from their own experience of diagnosis of epilepsy or serious neurological troubles.

I think we need to remember that all that is on the table so far is a teacher who has observed some sort of behavior. We don't even have a description of that behavior. Simply a notation that the teacher has seen a youtube video that makes her feel it could be absence seizures.

I don't want a school nurse or teacher suggesting diagnoses. Pointing out problems, absolutely, and encouraging a visit to the doctor, you bet. But suggesting diagnoses is dangerous and over the line. A kid that loses focus in class could be malnourished, could be exhausted, could have a metabolic disorder, could have a dozen different things.

[Anonymous]

It isn't like the teacher/nurse are providing a real diagnosis. They are just providing their observations for parents. Hopefully parents will follow up on those instead of getting into a huff about "crossing the line."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It isn't like the teacher/nurse are providing a real diagnosis. They are just providing their observations for parents. Hopefully parents will follow up on those instead of getting into a huff about "crossing the line."

"Absence seizures" is not an observation. It's a diagnosis. Observation would be that the child is blanking out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would caution going too far out of your lane. We've had educators do this and create problems. We were told our child seemed to be having seizures by the school OT and then the principal. We met with a neurologist and took our child in for an EEG. After all the stress that this unleashed, we found out that there was nothing wrong/everything was normal. The OT was still not convinced and tried to get us to have an MRI. Our neurologist refused.

EEGs frequently cannot detect epilepsy unless the person is actively having a seizure or had one within a few hours. I'm surprised you didn't want to do the MRI just to rule out some bad possibilities.

If you're trying to suggest that an MRI would have shown a tumor or abnormality, that would hardly have resulted in just absence seizures.

Really? Because everyone who I know who has had a seizure (except febrile) in the last 10 years have all had MRIs (or CT scans before that). Even those who experience absence seizures. The two neurologists that we've worked with (on two different patients) both suggested one right away to rule out lesions, tumors, or structural abnormalities. And out of the 8 people we know with epilepsy (most from support group) only 2 have had an abnormal EEG. And fortunately everyone has had a normal MRI.

Anyway, I'm surprised the neurologist didn't recommend getting one. Maybe because a parent didn't directly see an episode?

As you probably know, the term epilepsy, covers a wide range. The reason they have MRIs, CTs and EEGs is because so little is known about it.

Most of the people I know with epilepsy (adults) have abnormal EEGs - and much of the research shows that abnormal EEGs is the norm. However, MRIs and CT scans are also part of the initial battery of tests.

[Anonymous]

They can be more than just blanking out. I'm sure teachers get lots of "blanking out" and so it is feasible that they know when something is off and are trying to find a way to describe it.

I am guessing that some parents might need a little more direction too. It's still not a diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would caution going too far out of your lane. We've had educators do this and create problems. We were told our child seemed to be having seizures by the school OT and then the principal. We met with a neurologist and took our child in for an EEG. After all the stress that this unleashed, we found out that there was nothing wrong/everything was normal. The OT was still not convinced and tried to get us to have an MRI. Our neurologist refused.

EEGs frequently cannot detect epilepsy unless the person is actively having a seizure or had one within a few hours. I'm surprised you didn't want to do the MRI just to rule out some bad possibilities.

If you're trying to suggest that an MRI would have shown a tumor or abnormality, that would hardly have resulted in just absence seizures.

Really? Because everyone who I know who has had a seizure (except febrile) in the last 10 years have all had MRIs (or CT scans before that). Even those who experience absence seizures. The two neurologists that we've worked with (on two different patients) both suggested one right away to rule out lesions, tumors, or structural abnormalities. And out of the 8 people we know with epilepsy (most from support group) only 2 have had an abnormal EEG. And fortunately everyone has had a normal MRI.

Anyway, I'm surprised the neurologist didn't recommend getting one. Maybe because a parent didn't directly see an episode?

Episode? I'm not sure anybody saw an "episode" with our child. What happened was the OT, who saw our child once a week, was pushing this because of some spacing out that she saw. We went ahead and did the EEG. We as parents hadn't noticed what the OT was describing, but we did it anyway because she was so adamant about it. Once the EEG came back perfectly normal, the neurologist and the pediatrician didn't think further testing, especially an MRI, was necessary. The OT was still sure this was happening and tried to get us to do an MRI. For what it's worth, you can't just walk into Children's and say you'd like an MRI. A doctor has to order it. And our neurologist was against it.