Anyone else frustrated by the ivy league types in DC?

[Anonymous]

policy/hill

[Anonymous]

Actually, we use our ivy emails because the alumni offices offer great email forwarding programs. Perhaps some are snobby. Most of us just go for the convenience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think she's suggesting that the Ivy advantage is not "unfair".

I've posted this many times before: where you go to school can be a sort-of reliable indicator of your work performance, sometimes. When companies are pouring through applications, they do not have a lot of time to get into the nuances of the actual applicants in effort to figure out which ones truly look like they will perform well. I think it is a time-saving device, and many times the employer learns later that they ended up with a lemon. As I said, usually someone with good creds has a lot on the ball. But I've been working too long as a lawyer to see it as anything more than a sometimes-reliable indicator. I have worked side by side with lawyers with degrees from Dartmouth/Duke (and the like) that are literally A COMPLETE DISASTER. I also work with lawyers who didn't go to hot schools that have earned the respect of their peers over time by consistently doing exceptional work. I also see lawyers from great schools doing great work. If I were in Human Resources, I'd prefer to hire someone from the top of their class at UMASS than from the bottom of Harvard. And I would expand the category of "excellent" schools: A degree from Williams College is every bit as impressive as a degree from any of the Ivies, sometimes more so.

I also think that many Ivies have extensive networking via their alumni associations, but I don't think that advantage is unfair.

I think over the long haul, the good ones shine on their own merits, and the bad ones fail on their own merits. I think when someone feels that they are underachieving professionally, they like to tell you where they went to school (if it's a good one). It makes them feel better and they hope it will get you to focus more on their education than their work.

To the poster who said "I'm sorry that I went to a better school than you" -- you must be pretty fucking stupid, if all you are going on is the fact that you went to an Ivy, and the presumption that the PP did not. You don't know where the PP went, and we don't know which Ivy you went to. I'd take an Amherst grad over a Penn grad any day of the week. I could go on. The possibilities and variations are endless.

Love the irony of a lawyer writing about the usually superior abilities of Ivy-league graduates in her writing-based field in a post in which her own ability to construct a grammatically-correct sentence is revealed to be hit or miss!

In my experience, if you are in a field in which who you know is more important than what you know- law, politics, business- then going to the right in-club school gives you a huge leg up. If you are in a field in which what you know is more important- science, arts- then educational background is less important than ability. And DC is dominated by the who-you-know fields.

[Anonymous]

Ugh. You know not to whom you speak. My professional writing is flawless. If you think I'm going to spend the same amount of time on some anonymous message board screed as I do on things that really matter, you're pretty fucking stupid. I type very fast & never proofread, and sometimes work on other things while I'm typing. My goal is only to get an idea across in a way that will be understandable. It's not like I'm writing a brief, or a blog or . . .

[Anonymous]

Um, whom-you-know.

[Anonymous]

(Just because you were being snippy to PP.)

[Anonymous]

17:03: It does matter. I'm 10 years out of residency at Hopkins (which I hated) and have a solid but unexceptional work record. I have NEVER been denied an interview and have been offered jobs I did not apply for, even when I expressed little or no interest and made ridiculous demands. I am quite certain it's because of the John.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Love it - happens all the time. I hired my first Ivy 15 years ago. We felt pressure to put someone in front of the client that looked good on paper. He did fine, but he was not a hard worker, so in the end, we suggested he go somewhere else. The Ivy's are just not HUNGRY enough for our business which involves the sale of very specialized technology. We want them hungry and hardworking and smart, so we have learned to hire from Midwestern Colleges and Universities. We like the kind of student that had to work for their expenses while in school. They make great salespeople, intuitive managers, and creative CEO's.

We are a results oriented business that expects exceptional performance. We don't hire from the Ivies anymore.

I love this kind of atmosphere - - are you hiring in sales? Seriously. I'm the poster on another thread who was always in the top 5-10% of sales, overachiever, or as you put it, hungry!

[Anonymous]

"If you are in a field in which what you know is more important- science, arts- then educational background is less important than ability. And DC is dominated by the who-you-know fields."

Huh? It ABSOLUTELY does matter where one went to grad school in the sciences. It just turns out that the best programs aren't necessarily at the ivies. Some of the nation's top science and social science grad programs are at state schools. And, within our fields, a) we all know the rankings and b) we all know where everyone went.

I attended a top ivy for undergrad, taught at a top-notch state school and later at a mediocre state school. I can tell you that my undergrad program demanded more of me than we demanded of our students at the state schools, and the top notch state school demanded more of its students than did the mediocre one. Sure, there were drug addled losers at all three, and stupendous students at all three. My ivy college has served me well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:17:03: It does matter. I'm 10 years out of residency at Hopkins (which I hated) and have a solid but unexceptional work record. I have NEVER been denied an interview and have been offered jobs I did not apply for, even when I expressed little or no interest and made ridiculous demands. I am quite certain it's because of the John.

Have to agree. I graduated from an Ivy med school (though my residency was less prestigious) and definitely find that my degree from there has paid off in job offers. Can't say that I wouldn't be where I am today coming from a lesser name med school, but I think the Ivy degree made it easier. It gives one a lot more options. Which is actually really depressing because I was hoping to not stress out about where my kids go to college, and now I think, it probably does matter! Damn!

[Anonymous]

I think it's really keen how the scientists (fact based) are willing to admit the hiring advantage they get from ivy educations, but the lawyer & policy types aren't (BS based, no offense, i'm one too).

[Anonymous]

I think the scientists have a little more humility

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the scientists have a little more humility

Not sure about that. Some of the biggest egos around are those with PhDs.

[Anonymous]

I have no college education (dropped out due to too much partying and lack of focus). I sell IT into the federal government and some years make much more than a doctor or lawyer. My best year I made 800K and my worst around 180K.

In sales you are only as good as your last deal. No one cares about what school you went to. You can have a MBA from Harvard and if you can't sell, you are out the door. Sales managers care more about your rolodex than your diploma.

I'm glad I did not waste more time or money in college. I started in sales at 23 and have enjoyed great prosperity ever since. I don't even have to work terrible hours and do most of my work from home unless I'm visit a customer. I consider myself a professional socializer, it's always been my forte. In sales, your best skill set is an ability to connect with a wide breadth of personalities and be persistent, not something an ivy league school teaches.

I was the SGA president, not the valedictorian

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. You know not to whom you speak. My professional writing is flawless. If you think I'm going to spend the same amount of time on some anonymous message board screed as I do on things that really matter, you're pretty fucking stupid. I type very fast & never proofread, and sometimes work on other things while I'm typing. My goal is only to get an idea across in a way that will be understandable. It's not like I'm writing a brief, or a blog or . . .

if you are the same poster who went on and on about amherst over penn, you seem to be very resentful. did you go to a state college?