Anyone else frustrated by the ivy league types in DC?

[Anonymous]

"I don't mind if you're in your twenties, or even if you're in your early thirties and reminiscing about your grad school days, but if you're older than that and name-dropping university names, then you're sort of a loser. "

Love this - think it would be okay if I posted it on my A-hole colleague's door?

Totally agree about the Ivy thing - I've been working in this town for 17 years and always see this. Even though I went to well-respected schools and have all the honors, creds, etc., expected in my field, I have to work 10x as hard to get my foot in the door any time I want to move. By contrast, a co-worker with Ivy creds was recruited out of the blue for a fab job, and I know that she doesn't know our field as well as I do and doesn't have as much professional experience - it was all about her degrees, even though she has been out of school for more than 12 years.

The recruiters in town perpetuate the problem - they only want to deal with people who fit into a certain mold in terms of schools, even though most people hiring tell me that they don't care.

[Anonymous]

so true! but also hate the kids vacation spot tee shirts like "NANTUCKET". ugh.

[Anonymous]

OP Here. I don't deny being jealous. But does that make my criticism any less accurate?

I am jealous that Ivy League graduates with less experience have an unfair advantage over me. Of course, I am jealous and frustrated. What's your point?

Are you suggesting I'm being childish by wishing the world were a bit more fair for me, my kids, and everyone else's kids? I really don't get your point.

[Anonymous]

Of course not, you are not childish for wishing this. But you will be foolish to think it will change for you OR your kids. So start saving up for Harvard!!!!

[Anonymous]

I think she's suggesting that the Ivy advantage is not "unfair".

I've posted this many times before: where you go to school can be a sort-of reliable indicator of your work performance, sometimes. When companies are pouring through applications, they do not have a lot of time to get into the nuances of the actual applicants in effort to figure out which ones truly look like they will perform well. I think it is a time-saving device, and many times the employer learns later that they ended up with a lemon. As I said, usually someone with good creds has a lot on the ball. But I've been working too long as a lawyer to see it as anything more than a sometimes-reliable indicator. I have worked side by side with lawyers with degrees from Dartmouth/Duke (and the like) that are literally A COMPLETE DISASTER. I also work with lawyers who didn't go to hot schools that have earned the respect of their peers over time by consistently doing exceptional work. I also see lawyers from great schools doing great work. If I were in Human Resources, I'd prefer to hire someone from the top of their class at UMASS than from the bottom of Harvard. And I would expand the category of "excellent" schools: A degree from Williams College is every bit as impressive as a degree from any of the Ivies, sometimes more so.

I also think that many Ivies have extensive networking via their alumni associations, but I don't think that advantage is unfair.

I think over the long haul, the good ones shine on their own merits, and the bad ones fail on their own merits. I think when someone feels that they are underachieving professionally, they like to tell you where they went to school (if it's a good one). It makes them feel better and they hope it will get you to focus more on their education than their work.

To the poster who said "I'm sorry that I went to a better school than you" -- you must be pretty fucking stupid, if all you are going on is the fact that you went to an Ivy, and the presumption that the PP did not. You don't know where the PP went, and we don't know which Ivy you went to. I'd take an Amherst grad over a Penn grad any day of the week. I could go on. The possibilities and variations are endless.

[Anonymous]

My neighborhood is full of 40- and 50-somethings who still have Ivy and prestigious liberal arts college stickers on their cars, but who don't have kids there. It's a big component of their identities, I guess. Meeting someone new at a dinner party and having Dartmouth come up within 10 minutes makes me stifle a smile. I went to a similar college as an undergrad and then graduated from a doc program that's ranked first in my field, but I'd feel like a pretentious ass actually mentioning those things to people unless they specifically ask. I don't much like to mention it if they do ask, come to think of it. But then I haven't had a window sticker in decades, believing that's really the province of undergrads.

[Anonymous]

The firm I work at has a policy of no diplomas, and works to avoid snobbery. You are who you are and the work you do speaks for itself.

[Anonymous]

It depends on who you know and where you work -- my friends who went to Ivy League schools don't ever mention it. I kind of find that there are so many well-educated people in D.C. that it isn't nearly as big a deal here as it might be elsewhere.

And I went to a state school (which I loved!).

[Anonymous]

Q: How do you know the person you're talking to went to Harvard?

A: He tells you in the first five minutes of the conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Q: How do you know the person you're talking to went to Harvard?

A: He tells you in the first five minutes of the conversation.

Love it - happens all the time. I hired my first Ivy 15 years ago. We felt pressure to put someone in front of the client that looked good on paper. He did fine, but he was not a hard worker, so in the end, we suggested he go somewhere else. The Ivy's are just not HUNGRY enough for our business which involves the sale of very specialized technology. We want them hungry and hardworking and smart, so we have learned to hire from Midwestern Colleges and Universities. We like the kind of student that had to work for their expenses while in school. They make great salespeople, intuitive managers, and creative CEO's.

We are a results oriented business that expects exceptional performance. We don't hire from the Ivies anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think she's suggesting that the Ivy advantage is not "unfair".

I've posted this many times before: where you go to school can be a sort-of reliable indicator of your work performance, sometimes. When companies are pouring through applications, they do not have a lot of time to get into the nuances of the actual applicants in effort to figure out which ones truly look like they will perform well. I think it is a time-saving device, and many times the employer learns later that they ended up with a lemon. As I said, usually someone with good creds has a lot on the ball. But I've been working too long as a lawyer to see it as anything more than a sometimes-reliable indicator. I have worked side by side with lawyers with degrees from Dartmouth/Duke (and the like) that are literally A COMPLETE DISASTER. I also work with lawyers who didn't go to hot schools that have earned the respect of their peers over time by consistently doing exceptional work. I also see lawyers from great schools doing great work. If I were in Human Resources, I'd prefer to hire someone from the top of their class at UMASS than from the bottom of Harvard. And I would expand the category of "excellent" schools: A degree from Williams College is every bit as impressive as a degree from any of the Ivies, sometimes more so.

I also think that many Ivies have extensive networking via their alumni associations, but I don't think that advantage is unfair.

I think over the long haul, the good ones shine on their own merits, and the bad ones fail on their own merits. I think when someone feels that they are underachieving professionally, they like to tell you where they went to school (if it's a good one). It makes them feel better and they hope it will get you to focus more on their education than their work.

To the poster who said "I'm sorry that I went to a better school than you" -- you must be pretty fucking stupid, if all you are going on is the fact that you went to an Ivy, and the presumption that the PP did not. You don't know where the PP went, and we don't know which Ivy you went to. I'd take an Amherst grad over a Penn grad any day of the week. I could go on. The possibilities and variations are endless.

Hey, what's wrong with Penn?
signed,
Penn alum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Q: How do you know the person you're talking to went to Harvard?

A: He tells you in the first five minutes of the conversation.

Love it - happens all the time. I hired my first Ivy 15 years ago. We felt pressure to put someone in front of the client that looked good on paper. He did fine, but he was not a hard worker, so in the end, we suggested he go somewhere else. The Ivy's are just not HUNGRY enough for our business which involves the sale of very specialized technology. We want them hungry and hardworking and smart, so we have learned to hire from Midwestern Colleges and Universities. We like the kind of student that had to work for their expenses while in school. They make great salespeople, intuitive managers, and creative CEO's.

We are a results oriented business that expects exceptional performance. We don't hire from the Ivies anymore.

Believe it or not, many Ivy students work for their expenses as well.

[Anonymous]

Curious---
what fields and/or positions are you all talking about where an Ivy league education means so much?


(We're both in medicine and where one trained matters a bit for a first job but then is never really mentioned again). I couldn't tell you where half of my colleagues did their residency training, let alone their medical school or undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Hey, what's wrong with Penn?
signed,
Penn alum

Nothing. Nothing whatsoever. It is a great school. I'm just using it as an example as one of the "lesser" ivies and stating that, in my personal opinion, there are some non-ivies as good or better. One of my most respected colleagues went to Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious---
what fields and/or positions are you all talking about where an Ivy league education means so much?


(We're both in medicine and where one trained matters a bit for a first job but then is never really mentioned again). I couldn't tell you where half of my colleagues did their residency training, let alone their medical school or undergrad.

It's important in the legal field.