Ditch the PTA, join the Parents' Coalition?

[Anonymous]

06:20

Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension skills. It clearly states changing benefits for new teachers and not current teachers. Therefore, a person seeking to enter the profession has a choice do something else. If teachers were not receiving the benefits from higher taxes then they would not vote for a tax increase. I guess all those
teachers would be very supportive of increasing their taxes for a better
pension for regular state government
workers. They pay taxes too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:06:20

Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension skills. It clearly states changing benefits for new teachers and not current teachers. Therefore, a person seeking to enter the profession has a choice do something else. If teachers were not receiving the benefits from higher taxes then they would not vote for a tax increase. I guess all those
teachers would be very supportive of increasing their taxes for a better
pension for regular state government
workers. They pay taxes too.

Simple economics. If a society wants highly motivated, highly intelligent people to enter teaching then society needs to reward them as such. If not, then don't expect the best/brighest to enter the field of education.

You can't ask people to choose careers that require them to earn advanced degrees and skills that are mostly unique to education and then decide to pay them less because they are employable only within the field of education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:06:20

Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension skills. It clearly states changing benefits for new teachers and not current teachers. Therefore, a person seeking to enter the profession has a choice do something else. If teachers were not receiving the benefits from higher taxes then they would not vote for a tax increase. I guess all those
teachers would be very supportive of increasing their taxes for a better
pension for regular state government
workers. They pay taxes too.

Simple economics. If a society wants highly motivated, highly intelligent people to enter teaching then society needs to reward them as such. If not, then don't expect the best/brighest to enter the field of education.

You can't ask people to choose careers that require them to earn advanced degrees and skills that are mostly unique to education and then decide to pay them less because they are employable only within the field of education.

funny you say that

I have several friends who left education (excellent teachers but sick of the bullshit) who now work in corporate training, HR, and grant writing. All three did not have to receive degrees in these areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:06:20

Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension skills. It clearly states changing benefits for new teachers and not current teachers. Therefore, a person seeking to enter the profession has a choice do something else. If teachers were not receiving the benefits from higher taxes then they would not vote for a tax increase. I guess all those
teachers would be very supportive of increasing their taxes for a better
pension for regular state government
workers. They pay taxes too.

Simple economics. If a society wants highly motivated, highly intelligent people to enter teaching then society needs to reward them as such. If not, then don't expect the best/brighest to enter the field of education.

You can't ask people to choose careers that require them to earn advanced degrees and skills that are mostly unique to education and then decide to pay them less because they are employable only within the field of education.

funny you say that

I have several friends who left education (excellent teachers but sick of the bullshit) who now work in corporate training, HR, and grant writing. All three did not have to receive degrees in these areas.

The eexception that proves the rule.

[Anonymous]

I love the Parents Coalition. Notice how all the criticism is in the form of personal annymous attacks rather than raising any concrete examples or arguments. This is pretty typical on DCUM whenever something critical of MCPS or the apple ballot or the MCEA is raised, you see personal attacks. What you don't see are facts and well-thought out arguments to support their positions. I am encouraged by the attacks, though, because it means PC is having an impact. I have seen the Washington Post pick up stories that I first read about on PC. The Post also did not endorse a single union/status quo candidate for this year's primary. The apple ballot still rules, but at least alternatives are getting on the map.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love the Parents Coalition. Notice how all the criticism is in the form of personal annymous attacks rather than raising any concrete examples or arguments. This is pretty typical on DCUM whenever something critical of MCPS or the apple ballot or the MCEA is raised, you see personal attacks. What you don't see are facts and well-thought out arguments to support their positions. I am encouraged by the attacks, though, because it means PC is having an impact. I have seen the Washington Post pick up stories that I first read about on PC. The Post also did not endorse a single union/status quo candidate for this year's primary. The apple ballot still rules, but at least alternatives are getting on the map.

Actually if you reread this thread there are several reasonable points made about the PC that aren't personal attacks. For example they aren't transparent themselves. They won't post comments that refute their points.

It's true there are several personal attacks against the PC made here. Those are unfortunate, but certainly not all.

There is no way the Post will ever endorse a union candidate. Because their education unit makes the money for the Post they are as biased as any union would be in promoting their candidates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the Parents Coalition. Notice how all the criticism is in the form of personal annymous attacks rather than raising any concrete examples or arguments. This is pretty typical on DCUM whenever something critical of MCPS or the apple ballot or the MCEA is raised, you see personal attacks. What you don't see are facts and well-thought out arguments to support their positions. I am encouraged by the attacks, though, because it means PC is having an impact. I have seen the Washington Post pick up stories that I first read about on PC. The Post also did not endorse a single union/status quo candidate for this year's primary. The apple ballot still rules, but at least alternatives are getting on the map.

Actually if you reread this thread there are several reasonable points made about the PC that aren't personal attacks. For example they aren't transparent themselves. They won't post comments that refute their points.

It's true there are several personal attacks against the PC made here. Those are unfortunate, but certainly not all.

There is no way the Post will ever endorse a union candidate. Because their education unit makes the money for the Post they are as biased as any union would be in promoting their candidates.

I agree, it's wrong to write off the criticism here as merely "personal anonymous attacks." I've posted 2 or 3 times to say I appreciate the work the PC does, I just think they could be more effective if they dropped the baggage. I even posted that they dig out info I don't have time to dig out, and for that I'm grateful. I did point out they never say anything positive, however, they seem pretty biased, and they screech, but this isn't a personal attack instead it's a wish or a hope that the PC can improve themselves.

On the subject of "personal" attacks, could somebody explain if this really is just a few persons (JS and the Examiner guy), or is it broader than that?

[Anonymous]

21:20 here again, responding to 00:04 and 10:21

I appreciate your points, but I think they are misdirected a bit.

I guess I like having a bulldog organization like PC. I am not really focused on whether they are biased or whether they are nice or whether they post opposing views on their site. Frankly, the opposing views get more than enough weight in MCPS private and public discussions, so I don't know why they need space on the PC blog. It is a blog. Others can write their own blogs.

I am confused about your transparency question. They seem to post factual documents on their blog and they post their names. What other information is needed? Are you wondering if they are funded by other outside groups. I don't really see lots of Karl Rove type adds, so I am guessing they don't have a lot of money from the outside. MCPS takes public money, so I am more concerned about MCPS transparency.

What I like is that they raise very good issues that no one else is raising. I am appalled that Weast went on a Pearson junket to Africa and then came back and reduced the amount Pearson pays MCPS. I am appalled at the whole Pearson situation in general. I am appalled at all the open meeting violations, I am appalled at cell towers on school property, I am appalled at the covering up of available funds to the County Council, I am appalled at the gutting of GT programs in middle school and the lack of challenge at the ES level. You would never hear about some of this stuff it it wasn't for the PC. You don't hear about this stuff in the Gazette or Post all that much. We need a watchdog. No one else is stepping up like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:21:20 here again, responding to 00:04 and 10:21

I appreciate your points, but I think they are misdirected a bit.

I guess I like having a bulldog organization like PC. I am not really focused on whether they are biased or whether they are nice or whether they post opposing views on their site. Frankly, the opposing views get more than enough weight in MCPS private and public discussions, so I don't know why they need space on the PC blog. It is a blog. Others can write their own blogs.

I am confused about your transparency question. They seem to post factual documents on their blog and they post their names. What other information is needed? Are you wondering if they are funded by other outside groups. I don't really see lots of Karl Rove type adds, so I am guessing they don't have a lot of money from the outside. MCPS takes public money, so I am more concerned about MCPS transparency.

What I like is that they raise very good issues that no one else is raising. I am appalled that Weast went on a Pearson junket to Africa and then came back and reduced the amount Pearson pays MCPS. I am appalled at the whole Pearson situation in general. I am appalled at all the open meeting violations, I am appalled at cell towers on school property, I am appalled at the covering up of available funds to the County Council, I am appalled at the gutting of GT programs in middle school and the lack of challenge at the ES level. You would never hear about some of this stuff it it wasn't for the PC. You don't hear about this stuff in the Gazette or Post all that much. We need a watchdog. No one else is stepping up like this.

The lack of transparcency is related to how they run their site. Posts that oppose their viewpoints are regularly censored. For a group that (fairly) complains about the lack of transparency in MCPS they aren't very transparent as well. If you claim to want transparency you should follow that rule yourself.

When people have asked about their leadership, organizational structure, etc. responses aren't forthcoming. They have a registered PAC, but don't publicize what they do with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[
The lack of transparcency is related to how they run their site. Posts that oppose their viewpoints are regularly censored. For a group that (fairly) complains about the lack of transparency in MCPS they aren't very transparent as well. If you claim to want transparency you should follow that rule yourself.

When people have asked about their leadership, organizational structure, etc. responses aren't forthcoming. They have a registered PAC, but don't publicize what they do with it.

I don't have a problem with those accusations.

On censoring opposing viewpoints I would say: I am going to leave aside any debate on whether and how much they do this. Instead, I am going to argue that this is not important. They have a blog and bloggers are free to post what they want. Why do they have to post opposing views or let others obfuscate their issue? They are not running a public debate society. If someone disagrees, then they can post their own blogs. The people that need to be transparent are the BOE and MCPS. This is because they take our public money. PC does not take our public money. There is a huge, huge difference here.

As for leadership structure: Again, why is this so important? They are a private group as far as I can tall. They post their names. It seems to be run by Janis Sartucci. Perhaps they have a decentralized structure.

To me, the value here is the documents and facts they post on their blog. Can you find anything they write that is factually untrue and has not been corrected? Are you glad that these facts are posted in an accessible manner? Do you use those facts to inform your overall view of MCPS policy and budget matters? I know where I stand on these questions.

Sure, I am not as exercised about some of the issues they raise, but at a high level I agree with them that there is too little transparency for such a large budget. It was on the PC blog, for example, that I found out that there is a movement at the state level to let unelected student board members vote on the school budgets (which is half of Montgomery's overall budget). WTF? Imagine if some kid is the deciding vote and all the union members are in charge of his grades. That is the kind of under the radar stuff that happens all the time. It is undemocratic and makes no sense. This is just one example. We need more debates, not less. I really hope the PC stirs up trouble. Keep on going PC.

[Anonymous]

The schools are nickel & diming even more because pensions and entitlements are taking up 50%-->60%-->70%+ of their budgets.

Also doesn't help that Gov O'Malley just signed a law passing all union teachers' public pension liabilities to the county level. While keeping MD taxes the same, so look for more cash flow problems until entitlements get sustainable. Slashed services, higher taxes/fees, until???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The schools are nickel & diming even more because pensions and entitlements are taking up 50%-->60%-->70%+ of their budgets.

Also doesn't help that Gov O'Malley just signed a law passing all union teachers' public pension liabilities to the county level. While keeping MD taxes the same, so look for more cash flow problems until entitlements get sustainable. Slashed services, higher taxes/fees, until???

Cutting into our benefits will NOT improve services.

Salaries are already low; benefits (pensions and healthcare are perks) will at least attract candidates.

Do you honestly think that people will be drawn to the profession simply b/c there are more resources (according to you) available at the schools?

Remember that TEACHERS ARE TAXPAYERS!

The ignorance on this board is baffling. For such an "educated" group, I'm amazed at how often find myself reading nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools are nickel & diming even more because pensions and entitlements are taking up 50%-->60%-->70%+ of their budgets.

Also doesn't help that Gov O'Malley just signed a law passing all union teachers' public pension liabilities to the county level. While keeping MD taxes the same, so look for more cash flow problems until entitlements get sustainable. Slashed services, higher taxes/fees, until???

Cutting into our benefits will NOT improve services.

Salaries are already low; benefits (pensions and healthcare are perks) will at least attract candidates.

Do you honestly think that people will be drawn to the profession simply b/c there are more resources (according to you) available at the schools?

Remember that TEACHERS ARE TAXPAYERS!

The ignorance on this board is baffling. For such an "educated" group, I'm amazed at how often find myself reading nonsense.

Low compared to what?

[Anonymous]

compared to other professions that REQUIRE the same number of degrees

MOST of my colleagues have at least a Master's. I work with quite a few who have PhDs in their content area. If you don't offer competitive salaries then at least leave our benefits alone.

Do you actually think you'll attract good teachers - people who have to support themselves and their families - to the profession?

You won't. The system will be left with the LEAST qualified and the LEAST experienced educators.

Good luck to your kids. At least I can always homeschool mine should the system fall completely apart.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The schools are nickel & diming even more because pensions and entitlements are taking up 50%-->60%-->70%+ of their budgets.

Also doesn't help that Gov O'Malley just signed a law passing all union teachers' public pension liabilities to the county level. While keeping MD taxes the same, so look for more cash flow problems until entitlements get sustainable. Slashed services, higher taxes/fees, until???

Cutting into our benefits will NOT improve services.

Salaries are already low; benefits (pensions and healthcare are perks) will at least attract candidates.

Do you honestly think that people will be drawn to the profession simply b/c there are more resources (according to you) available at the schools?

Remember that TEACHERS ARE TAXPAYERS!

The ignorance on this board is baffling. For such an "educated" group, I'm amazed at how often find myself reading nonsense.

Low compared to what?

[Anonymous]

this board is hilarious, so what is it teachers: all about the kids or all about the benies?