law school question

[Anonymous]

I'm an attorney and only because my view is so different than most everyone here am I chiming in.

If he has realistic expectations about what he wants to do and the level of debt he incurs is commensurate with his projected income he should go for it.

For the record I graduated in the middle third of my tier 2 law school. I couldn't get a job paying more than $45K my first year. . . . so I declined and opened my own firm (literally 4 months after graduating). I made $180K my first year and nearly a decade later make about $500K a year (so that there is no confusion that is the amount that appears on my W-2). I have a staff of 20 (about half attorneys) that work for me.

My husband scored 150 exactly on the LSATs. He went to the same tier 2 school. He split his second year summer at two top ranked firms. Both made him offers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an attorney and only because my view is so different than most everyone here am I chiming in.

If he has realistic expectations about what he wants to do and the level of debt he incurs is commensurate with his projected income he should go for it.

For the record I graduated in the middle third of my tier 2 law school. I couldn't get a job paying more than $45K my first year. . . . so I declined and opened my own firm (literally 4 months after graduating). I made $180K my first year and nearly a decade later make about $500K a year (so that there is no confusion that is the amount that appears on my W-2). I have a staff of 20 (about half attorneys) that work for me.

My husband scored 150 exactly on the LSATs. He went to the same tier 2 school. He split his second year summer at two top ranked firms. Both made him offers.

two points:

1. the market is incredibly different now than it was ten years ago.

2. sure, if you want to hang up a shingle, then it doesn't matter what law school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an attorney and only because my view is so different than most everyone here am I chiming in.

If he has realistic expectations about what he wants to do and the level of debt he incurs is commensurate with his projected income he should go for it.

For the record I graduated in the middle third of my tier 2 law school. I couldn't get a job paying more than $45K my first year. . . . so I declined and opened my own firm (literally 4 months after graduating). I made $180K my first year and nearly a decade later make about $500K a year (so that there is no confusion that is the amount that appears on my W-2). I have a staff of 20 (about half attorneys) that work for me.

My husband scored 150 exactly on the LSATs. He went to the same tier 2 school. He split his second year summer at two top ranked firms. Both made him offers.

two points:

1. the market is incredibly different now than it was ten years ago.

2. sure, if you want to hang up a shingle, then it doesn't matter what law school

Where do you get the start-up funds to open your own practice and pay for malpractice insurance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm an attorney and only because my view is so different than most everyone here am I chiming in.

If he has realistic expectations about what he wants to do and the level of debt he incurs is commensurate with his projected income he should go for it.

For the record I graduated in the middle third of my tier 2 law school. I couldn't get a job paying more than $45K my first year. . . . so I declined and opened my own firm (literally 4 months after graduating). I made $180K my first year and nearly a decade later make about $500K a year (so that there is no confusion that is the amount that appears on my W-2). I have a staff of 20 (about half attorneys) that work for me.

My husband scored 150 exactly on the LSATs. He went to the same tier 2 school. He split his second year summer at two top ranked firms. Both made him offers.

Your experience is so long ago in terms of the changes to the market that it's simply not comparable to the situation today at all. The market is just saturated with attorneys right now (and thanks to the economic crisis, a lot of seasoned attorneys that were let go took jobs that the graduating 3L would have taken for a few years, meaning lots of new attorneys are out of work or can't find it in the legal field), and the ABA keeps accrediting more schools and seems unconcerned with the state of the profession.

I'm glad you have put together a fantastic life, though...makin' me jealous.

[Anonymous]

plus, many lawyers do not want to open their own practice and hang up a shingle. for most, that means practicing personal injury/medical malpractice, bankruptcy, family or small criminal. great if you want to do that, but I certainly did not. I wanted to practice corporate law, and knew I wouldn't be good at the more retail variety.

but I agree - if you know for sure that you want to hang up a shingle (and the start-up costs are very little actually), and you have researched this and think you would be good at it and successful and know the odds, then it doesn't matter where you go to law school.

I have a friend who went to unaccredited or fourth tier (not sure which) St. Thomas in Miami. He couldn't find a law firm job so opened his own practice. Now he has one of the top criminal practices in Miami making close to a million/year I bet. And of course there is the Angelos example in Baltimore.

[Anonymous]

Send your relative this (funny but sad because it's true video about unrealistic motivations to go to law school):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

[Anonymous]

The market today is not the market of 10 years ago so anyone chiming in with their 1/1000 story is not that helpful. Law school also costs more today than 10 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Law school costs a lot more than it did 10 years ago! From experience, unfortunately! Not everyone has the gumption to start (and maintain) their own firms. I know some attorneys that are supposedly "looking" for work, but I would swear they are waiting for a job to tap them on the shoulder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The market today is not the market of 10 years ago so anyone chiming in with their 1/1000 story is not that helpful. Law school also costs more today than 10 years ago.

Yeah, but the market of today is pretty similar to the market of 16-17 years ago. I came out of school in the mid-1990s, and it was similarly bad then. I don't think you should so easily dismiss what others have to say.

[Anonymous]

As someone who handled my practice group's hiring for several years, I can honestly say that I wouldn't want to be graduating from law school right now, let alone from a lower tier school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The market today is not the market of 10 years ago so anyone chiming in with their 1/1000 story is not that helpful. Law school also costs more today than 10 years ago.

Yeah, but the market of today is pretty similar to the market of 16-17 years ago. I came out of school in the mid-1990s, and it was similarly bad then. I don't think you should so easily dismiss what others have to say.

market today is much worse than the mid 90s

[Anonymous]

I think this geographical area perpetuates the myth of law school being the brass ring. Let's face it, it is relatively easy to access that part of the brain than to find a cure for cancer, so to speak. Lawyers are a dime a dozen here for a reason. OP, if your relative (you?) really want to go to law school, do it. It is their (your?) life to live and learn, really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The market today is not the market of 10 years ago so anyone chiming in with their 1/1000 story is not that helpful. Law school also costs more today than 10 years ago.

Yeah, but the market of today is pretty similar to the market of 16-17 years ago. I came out of school in the mid-1990s, and it was similarly bad then. I don't think you should so easily dismiss what others have to say.

market today is much worse than the mid 90s

I agree, the market today is really much worse than the mid 90s. It's not just the economy. Since the mid-90s there have been way too many lawyers pumped into the market. Another 15 years worth without anything close to the attrition you'd need to even out. Really, there is a significant oversupply problem. Existing law school programs expanded and new, crappier law schools opened. As long as they can charge tuition, they do it and it has nothing to do with meeting a need for trained lawyers.

[Anonymous]

For what it's worth here's and article written by the President of the California Bar about the value of a law degree:

http://www.calbarjournal.com/February2011/Opinion/FromthePresident.aspx

Looks to be a series, might be a good idea to have your relative look out for future installments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an attorney and only because my view is so different than most everyone here am I chiming in.

If he has realistic expectations about what he wants to do and the level of debt he incurs is commensurate with his projected income he should go for it.

For the record I graduated in the middle third of my tier 2 law school. I couldn't get a job paying more than $45K my first year. . . . so I declined and opened my own firm (literally 4 months after graduating). I made $180K my first year and nearly a decade later make about $500K a year (so that there is no confusion that is the amount that appears on my W-2). I have a staff of 20 (about half attorneys) that work for me.

My husband scored 150 exactly on the LSATs. He went to the same tier 2 school. He split his second year summer at two top ranked firms. Both made him offers.

two points:

1. the market is incredibly different now than it was ten years ago.

2. sure, if you want to hang up a shingle, then it doesn't matter what law school

Where do you get the start-up funds to open your own practice and pay for malpractice insurance?

Law is by far one the cheapest fields to start. I took a $7K credit card advance and that was sufficient, including rent in a class A office building (I started in a full time executive office suite). Malpractice insurance can be financed.