“Men’s rights activism”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men’s rights is just a less socially accepted version of feminism. You have some very extreme people just like with feminism but not everyone’s like that. There are legit issues facing men that have been made worse over the past 40-50 years. For example, education. It’s overwhelmingly female which can lead to men not having a positive role model if they aren’t getting it at home. And also in the education system, female teachers tend to be a bit biased against boys in favor of the girls.

It’s the opposite.

Most people have no idea how biased the system is against boys. They don't know the studies that show boys' grades improve with blind grading. They don't know how IQs are distributed differently between men and women and how the distribution should affect college admissions.

The sad truth is pro-feminist arguments tend to devolve into trying to shame men from noticing such things instead of pointing to tangible benefits of feminist policies.

How are “IQs distributed differently”?

Why would it impact college admissions?

[Anonymous]

there's a great Netflix program exposing the manosphere. Maybe watch with him and see if you can begin a conversation.
https://www.netflix.com/title/81920687
This stuff is truly worrying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men’s rights is just a less socially accepted version of feminism. You have some very extreme people just like with feminism but not everyone’s like that. There are legit issues facing men that have been made worse over the past 40-50 years. For example, education. It’s overwhelmingly female which can lead to men not having a positive role model if they aren’t getting it at home. And also in the education system, female teachers tend to be a bit biased against boys in favor of the girls.

It’s the opposite.

Most people have no idea how biased the system is against boys. They don't know the studies that show boys' grades improve with blind grading. They don't know how IQs are distributed differently between men and women and how the distribution should affect college admissions.

The sad truth is pro-feminist arguments tend to devolve into trying to shame men from noticing such things instead of pointing to tangible benefits of feminist policies.

What system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's wrong with Men's rights activism? We got everything else going on too - women's rights, minority rights, animal rights, environment,...etc. Let him be.

There is nothing "wrong" with it. Though I question the necessity. It's the "how" of the manosphere. They are disrespectful, misogynistic, and hateful, ftmp. And lbh, they're just playing victim b/c they now have to share opportunities. That's not opression.

Everybody has an opinion and everyone questions someone else's motives. What else is new?

Fair. But it is also fair that "men's rights" is often just code for "them not getting to do whatever the F they want as they have since the beginning of time." OBJECTIVELY, men are not nearly as disadvantaged as women or POC.

THIS.

[Anonymous]

Tell him it's sad that he's still a virgin but not to worry, that once he actually has a sexual relationship with a woman he won't care about all the self pitying men's right men out there.

[Anonymous]

I’m very relieved that DS completely rejected the manosphere. He fits the prime target. White, very into the gym and weight lifting, played video games, felt isolated from moving and the pandemic. What saved him was being into history and reading lots of good literature, non fiction and college level texts, being an extrovert and finding perseverance to connect with lots of people.

It is a thing that with all the identity groups, a white boy walking in has no option other than the white Christian club. The white Christian clubs are extremely toxic. Sports teams were the only active non identity group for freshmen. He chose to eat lunch alone rather than go into that group. He’s reported that the Asian kids wouldn’t be friends with him until they saw he was getting 100s on his tests in the hard subjects without cheating. By sophomore year academic clubs and tutoring jobs opened up. He’d made enough friends to have a good mix across groups. As the other kids did the same they weren’t all hiding in the East Asian, South Asian, Jewish, Women insert X clubs at lunch.

[Anonymous]

I think this is difficult to parse without acknowledging that different generations experience different issues related to gender. When I hear “men’s rights” I think of Gen X and Millennial aged individuals involved in a smaller movement that initially pushed back against issues with men related to family court, suicide, and dangerous jobs. This accompanied a feeling of value being tied to beating up their body and risking their life for physical labor. In addition to assumptions that fathers were never as good of a care giver as the mother. There seems to be some more controversial takes here that push back on same sexual assault related studies and advocate colleges to get out of prosecuting sexual related incidents in-house and leaving them solely to the authorities. This version seems to have evolved or have offshoots in the current movement acknowledging issues with boys in academic environments and the sharp decline in men advancing to higher education. As well as some broader issues around feeling placed into a hierarchy in society and being told men have it all while feeling like top men have everything and bottom men get nothing. This movement seems more community driven to change and influence institutions, laws, and society to correct these issues. Like feminism, there seems to be a scale of extremism that runs from agreement there are issues that need addressing to a toxic level of hate/angry at the issues (real or perceived).

If its “Man-O-Sphere” I see this as a almost wholly toxic byproduct of online culture, influencer economics, and rage bait that takes duel and somewhat contradictory approach of blaming women (for continually falling for attractive men that mistreat her)and the man as an individual for not being “man” enough. Part of the goal seems to be to sell supplements, exercise regimes, and cosmetic products to make a viewer “man” enough. It seems to have some conspiracy thinking around the man falling for society telling him to be less manly and more liberal to succeed when it led to his failure - only this man-o-sphere influencer can tell him how to course correct to get women, money, etc. I see this as emerging from the pick-up culture of the 2010.

Adjacent to this is stereotypical fraternity culture and Barstool sports that is probably closer to mainstream. But may also be viewed as the popular kids that never let the incel/man-o-sphere believer sit at the same lunch table. I just don’t think these people think or have much interest man-o-sphere or mens rights in the same way they do not care much about any issues. Between them and the man-o-sphere would maybe be Joe Rogan and Theo Vonn.

To the extent OP (or anyone else) is reading. I think you need to understand where your son is falling on this spectrum. I would also hesitate to frame it in the point of view from your generation’s gender issues. And instead try to understand what is driving him there is it: issues with girls and relationships, self-esteem/body shame, feeling left out by or attacked by society (or specific parts of it), identifying with issues around boys in school, and/or feeling some sense of injustice that needs to be corrected (that can lead to an use vs them/men vs women mindset). With all these issues, you can try to channel him to healthier outlets or find a way to five him hope about the future despite what happened in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Men’s rights is just a less socially accepted version of feminism. You have some very extreme people just like with feminism but not everyone’s like that. There are legit issues facing men that have been made worse over the past 40-50 years. For example, education. It’s overwhelmingly female which can lead to men not having a positive role model if they aren’t getting it at home. And also in the education system, female teachers tend to be a bit biased against boys in favor of the girls.

What is the reason for education wing “overwhelmingly female,” do you suppose?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's wrong with Men's rights activism? We got everything else going on too - women's rights, minority rights, animal rights, environment,...etc. Let him be.

There is nothing "wrong" with it. Though I question the necessity. It's the "how" of the manosphere. They are disrespectful, misogynistic, and hateful, ftmp. And lbh, they're just playing victim b/c they now have to share opportunities. That's not opression.

Everybody has an opinion and everyone questions someone else's motives. What else is new?

Fair. But it is also fair that "men's rights" is often just code for "them not getting to do whatever the F they want as they have since the beginning of time." OBJECTIVELY, men are not nearly as disadvantaged as women or POC.

THIS.

Some POC are not nearly as disadvantaged as some other POC yet we allow them to be helped by policy just the same. Why not the same for struggling men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men’s rights is just a less socially accepted version of feminism. You have some very extreme people just like with feminism but not everyone’s like that. There are legit issues facing men that have been made worse over the past 40-50 years. For example, education. It’s overwhelmingly female which can lead to men not having a positive role model if they aren’t getting it at home. And also in the education system, female teachers tend to be a bit biased against boys in favor of the girls.

What is the reason for education wing “overwhelmingly female,” do you suppose?

We have designed a system that rewards the innate tendencies of most women over men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men’s rights is just a less socially accepted version of feminism. You have some very extreme people just like with feminism but not everyone’s like that. There are legit issues facing men that have been made worse over the past 40-50 years. For example, education. It’s overwhelmingly female which can lead to men not having a positive role model if they aren’t getting it at home. And also in the education system, female teachers tend to be a bit biased against boys in favor of the girls.

Except to buy this you have to accept the premise that men lack certain rights and need to fight for them. They don’t.

And what rights do women lack in 2026 in the US?

Let's see. Bodily autonomy. Sexual assault is the least convicted violent crime.
Women (and children) are systemically abused. The hospital where I gave birth had an anesthesiologist SAing women while they were in surgery. The hospital disappeared 5 complaints and he wasn't dealt with until one of the women went to the police.
Women have immense unpaid caregiving shoved on them. My son's teacher works all day then does unpaid overnight care for her mom with dementia and a hip replacement
There are wild new forms of SA thanks to drugs and social media
Men have fried their brains watching corn and treat women like meat puppets
Infecting people with STDs is being criminalized. Women are more susceptible to STDs because of anatomy
Contrary to popular opinion, the rate of alimony being paid out has steadily declined from the 1960s
Being a custodial caregiver for kids is a risk for old age poverty in women but not men
Divorce is a risk factor for old age poverty for women but not for men
1/3 of child support paid in full, on time, 1/3 late, 1/3 not at all
50/50 expenses is an absolute scam because women still do the lion's share of child care and house work. It also causes the household to be doubly exposed to job loss and increases long term financial problems
Married men steal 30-60 minutes of leisure time from their wives and that is before kids
Abortion rights being marched back
Women are getting a laptop on wheels wheeled into their L+D room and being forced with emergency judge court order to get C-section against their consent (i.e. assault)
Marital rape is still defacto legal. It is almost impossible to get police to charge your husband. It is a statistical zero

I could go on for hours

Besides the first one, the rest aren’t even rights violations those are societal/personal issues. When we’re talking about bodily autonomy maybe we should also talk about circumcision as well. Why do we think it’s okay to mutilate men’s genitalia when they’re too young to consent to it? It’s also a medically unnecessary procedure 99% of the time.

Because we allow parents to make many, MANY decisions about their minor children's bodies. Now, kindly have seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men’s rights is just a less socially accepted version of feminism. You have some very extreme people just like with feminism but not everyone’s like that. There are legit issues facing men that have been made worse over the past 40-50 years. For example, education. It’s overwhelmingly female which can lead to men not having a positive role model if they aren’t getting it at home. And also in the education system, female teachers tend to be a bit biased against boys in favor of the girls.

What is the reason for education wing “overwhelmingly female,” do you suppose?

We have designed a system that rewards the innate tendencies of most women over men.

I do believe "compensation" is the answer pp was looking for. I thought I'd point that out since you replied with some gobbleygook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this is difficult to parse without acknowledging that different generations experience different issues related to gender. When I hear “men’s rights” I think of Gen X and Millennial aged individuals involved in a smaller movement that initially pushed back against issues with men related to family court, suicide, and dangerous jobs. This accompanied a feeling of value being tied to beating up their body and risking their life for physical labor. In addition to assumptions that fathers were never as good of a care giver as the mother. There seems to be some more controversial takes here that push back on same sexual assault related studies and advocate colleges to get out of prosecuting sexual related incidents in-house and leaving them solely to the authorities. This version seems to have evolved or have offshoots in the current movement acknowledging issues with boys in academic environments and the sharp decline in men advancing to higher education. As well as some broader issues around feeling placed into a hierarchy in society and being told men have it all while feeling like top men have everything and bottom men get nothing. This movement seems more community driven to change and influence institutions, laws, and society to correct these issues. Like feminism, there seems to be a scale of extremism that runs from agreement there are issues that need addressing to a toxic level of hate/angry at the issues (real or perceived).

If its “Man-O-Sphere” I see this as a almost wholly toxic byproduct of online culture, influencer economics, and rage bait that takes duel and somewhat contradictory approach of blaming women (for continually falling for attractive men that mistreat her)and the man as an individual for not being “man” enough. Part of the goal seems to be to sell supplements, exercise regimes, and cosmetic products to make a viewer “man” enough. It seems to have some conspiracy thinking around the man falling for society telling him to be less manly and more liberal to succeed when it led to his failure - only this man-o-sphere influencer can tell him how to course correct to get women, money, etc. I see this as emerging from the pick-up culture of the 2010.

Adjacent to this is stereotypical fraternity culture and Barstool sports that is probably closer to mainstream. But may also be viewed as the popular kids that never let the incel/man-o-sphere believer sit at the same lunch table. I just don’t think these people think or have much interest man-o-sphere or mens rights in the same way they do not care much about any issues. Between them and the man-o-sphere would maybe be Joe Rogan and Theo Vonn.

To the extent OP (or anyone else) is reading. I think you need to understand where your son is falling on this spectrum. I would also hesitate to frame it in the point of view from your generation’s gender issues. And instead try to understand what is driving him there is it: issues with girls and relationships, self-esteem/body shame, feeling left out by or attacked by society (or specific parts of it), identifying with issues around boys in school, and/or feeling some sense of injustice that needs to be corrected (that can lead to an use vs them/men vs women mindset). With all these issues, you can try to channel him to healthier outlets or find a way to five him hope about the future despite what happened in the past.

Thank you for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men’s rights is just a less socially accepted version of feminism. You have some very extreme people just like with feminism but not everyone’s like that. There are legit issues facing men that have been made worse over the past 40-50 years. For example, education. It’s overwhelmingly female which can lead to men not having a positive role model if they aren’t getting it at home. And also in the education system, female teachers tend to be a bit biased against boys in favor of the girls.

It’s the opposite.

Most people have no idea how biased the system is against boys. They don't know the studies that show boys' grades improve with blind grading. They don't know how IQs are distributed differently between men and women and how the distribution should affect college admissions.

The sad truth is pro-feminist arguments tend to devolve into trying to shame men from noticing such things instead of pointing to tangible benefits of feminist policies.

How are “IQs distributed differently”?

Why would it impact college admissions?

Men have a wider distribution. There are more male idiots and male geniuses. If we used the old SAT that was focused on identifying genius (a 1400 today is very different from one 40 years ago), men hold a strong majority of the higher scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Men’s rights is just a less socially accepted version of feminism. You have some very extreme people just like with feminism but not everyone’s like that. There are legit issues facing men that have been made worse over the past 40-50 years. For example, education. It’s overwhelmingly female which can lead to men not having a positive role model if they aren’t getting it at home. And also in the education system, female teachers tend to be a bit biased against boys in favor of the girls.

What is the reason for education wing “overwhelmingly female,” do you suppose?

We have designed a system that rewards the innate tendencies of most women over men.

Plus, once you allow women into a system, they start feminizing the environment and making it difficult to have debate or reward excellence. In the modern world where the law protects and prioritizes feminine sensibilities, men find the feminine environments distasteful and quietly leave. Women always want to invade male spaces because men are builders. Men do not follow women because women-run organizations just kinda suck.