Arlington proposing to close county gymnastics program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

Missing the point. It’s about the cost of providing the resource and what is the role of government. I can appreciate that people who use it like that their county is providing them a subsidized competitive gymnastics team in a very well equipped and dedicated gym for their use. Is that what they should be doing when we can’t afford everything the county is doing?

Throw down some mats in the corner of TJ and offer basic gymnastics classes for entry level kids 0-5.

If the county isn't going to subsidize youth sports, that should be the policy across the board. Look at fees for all youth sports.

And let's bulldoze Long Bridge while we're at it. We all know that the cost of that facility is why we now can't afford other nice things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

DPR does say they run these programs cost recovery. You can’t imagine that a basketball league with a zillion kids, volunteer coaches, and no overhead beyond one person in the county coordinating the set up of teams and paying for monitors to open a building costs less? With gyms that are used 24-7 by everyone in community across many sports and by every APS kid.

Again watch the meeting with the board. The staff said the numbers on cost recovery for gymnastics are staggering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

DPR does say they run these programs cost recovery. You can’t imagine that a basketball league with a zillion kids, volunteer coaches, and no overhead beyond one person in the county coordinating the set up of teams and paying for monitors to open a building costs less? With gyms that are used 24-7 by everyone in community across many sports and by every APS kid.

Again watch the meeting with the board. The staff said the numbers on cost recovery for gymnastics are staggering.

Yet haven't shared those figures or ever brought it up before. This is coming out of nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

Missing the point. It’s about the cost of providing the resource and what is the role of government. I can appreciate that people who use it like that their county is providing them a subsidized competitive gymnastics team in a very well equipped and dedicated gym for their use. Is that what they should be doing when we can’t afford everything the county is doing?

Throw down some mats in the corner of TJ and offer basic gymnastics classes for entry level kids 0-5.

If the county isn't going to subsidize youth sports, that should be the policy across the board. Look at fees for all youth sports.

And let's bulldoze Long Bridge while we're at it. We all know that the cost of that facility is why we now can't afford other nice things.

I’m with you on the swim team and you all should ask for these numbers although the pools are far more heavily and widely used than a gymnastics gym. I don’t think you’re going to like the answer on how gymnastics stacks up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

DPR does say they run these programs cost recovery. You can’t imagine that a basketball league with a zillion kids, volunteer coaches, and no overhead beyond one person in the county coordinating the set up of teams and paying for monitors to open a building costs less? With gyms that are used 24-7 by everyone in community across many sports and by every APS kid.

Again watch the meeting with the board. The staff said the numbers on cost recovery for gymnastics are staggering.

Yet haven't shared those figures or ever brought it up before. This is coming out of nowhere.

That’s the point of the next 2 months. They’re bringing it up now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

Missing the point. It’s about the cost of providing the resource and what is the role of government. I can appreciate that people who use it like that their county is providing them a subsidized competitive gymnastics team in a very well equipped and dedicated gym for their use. Is that what they should be doing when we can’t afford everything the county is doing?

Throw down some mats in the corner of TJ and offer basic gymnastics classes for entry level kids 0-5.

If the county isn't going to subsidize youth sports, that should be the policy across the board. Look at fees for all youth sports.

And let's bulldoze Long Bridge while we're at it. We all know that the cost of that facility is why we now can't afford other nice things.

I’m with you on the swim team and you all should ask for these numbers although the pools are far more heavily and widely used than a gymnastics gym. I don’t think you’re going to like the answer on how gymnastics stacks up.

I don't think you're going to be right on usage. Those gyms are always full of kids. And to the extent there's additional capacity, there's no reason that Parks and Rec couldn't fill it if they wanted to. The staff just isn't running the program in that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

LOL! This is so not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

DPR does say they run these programs cost recovery. You can’t imagine that a basketball league with a zillion kids, volunteer coaches, and no overhead beyond one person in the county coordinating the set up of teams and paying for monitors to open a building costs less? With gyms that are used 24-7 by everyone in community across many sports and by every APS kid.

Again watch the meeting with the board. The staff said the numbers on cost recovery for gymnastics are staggering.

Yet haven't shared those figures or ever brought it up before. This is coming out of nowhere.

That’s the point of the next 2 months. They’re bringing it up now.

Yet we still don't have figures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

DPR does say they run these programs cost recovery. You can’t imagine that a basketball league with a zillion kids, volunteer coaches, and no overhead beyond one person in the county coordinating the set up of teams and paying for monitors to open a building costs less? With gyms that are used 24-7 by everyone in community across many sports and by every APS kid.

Again watch the meeting with the board. The staff said the numbers on cost recovery for gymnastics are staggering.

Yet haven't shared those figures or ever brought it up before. This is coming out of nowhere.

That’s the point of the next 2 months. They’re bringing it up now.

Yet we still don't have figures.

It’s Sunday and they proposed the budget yesterday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

Missing the point. It’s about the cost of providing the resource and what is the role of government. I can appreciate that people who use it like that their county is providing them a subsidized competitive gymnastics team in a very well equipped and dedicated gym for their use. Is that what they should be doing when we can’t afford everything the county is doing?

Throw down some mats in the corner of TJ and offer basic gymnastics classes for entry level kids 0-5.

If the county isn't going to subsidize youth sports, that should be the policy across the board. Look at fees for all youth sports.

And let's bulldoze Long Bridge while we're at it. We all know that the cost of that facility is why we now can't afford other nice things.

I’m with you on the swim team and you all should ask for these numbers although the pools are far more heavily and widely used than a gymnastics gym. I don’t think you’re going to like the answer on how gymnastics stacks up.

I don't think you're going to be right on usage. Those gyms are always full of kids. And to the extent there's additional capacity, there's no reason that Parks and Rec couldn't fill it if they wanted to. The staff just isn't running the program in that way.

The gymnastics gym is always filled with people in the way the school and rec center gyms are always filled. You sure about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

DPR does say they run these programs cost recovery. You can’t imagine that a basketball league with a zillion kids, volunteer coaches, and no overhead beyond one person in the county coordinating the set up of teams and paying for monitors to open a building costs less? With gyms that are used 24-7 by everyone in community across many sports and by every APS kid.

Again watch the meeting with the board. The staff said the numbers on cost recovery for gymnastics are staggering.

Yet haven't shared those figures or ever brought it up before. This is coming out of nowhere.

That’s the point of the next 2 months. They’re bringing it up now.

Yet we still don't have figures.

It’s Sunday and they proposed the budget yesterday.

Who puts out a budget without having the justification ready? They knew it was being released. Even the county board wanted to know what the figures are and we're questioning the numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

DPR does say they run these programs cost recovery. You can’t imagine that a basketball league with a zillion kids, volunteer coaches, and no overhead beyond one person in the county coordinating the set up of teams and paying for monitors to open a building costs less? With gyms that are used 24-7 by everyone in community across many sports and by every APS kid.

Again watch the meeting with the board. The staff said the numbers on cost recovery for gymnastics are staggering.

Yet haven't shared those figures or ever brought it up before. This is coming out of nowhere.

That’s the point of the next 2 months. They’re bringing it up now.

Yet we still don't have figures.

It’s Sunday and they proposed the budget yesterday.

Who puts out a budget without having the justification ready? They knew it was being released. Even the county board wanted to know what the figures are and we're questioning the numbers.

This is a mischaracterization of what the board said.

I listened to the meeting.

I hate when this underbelly of Arlington comes out. I get it people want to protect their own stuff but it just gets so nasty and irrational. This is going to be like an APS boundary war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

I don’t know if you’ve ever had to schedule soccer or baseball fields, but in the fall/spring seasons, they are scheduled for pretty much every daylight hour the kids are not in school. If they had lights, they’d probably be scheduled to 10 pm. Summer they are used for camps and private reservations. Some fields even see use in winter although not as much as you’d expect.

And when the kids are in school, the ones on APS property are being used by school kids for gym class, after care, recess, etc. The ones on Arlington property are open to anyone who might want to use them.

As coaches, we do a fair amount of the day to day maintenance for the ball fields. Ever drag a rake across a mud pit so your kids might be able to play their first game in weeks? I have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

Again…WATCH BOARD MEETING.

The head guy explained that on this coming Tuesday they will be proposing fee and tax rate increases across the board. Including likely this one. That is how this works. The board advertises and proposes revenue and fee increases every year and there is time to comment and then they vote on it. You just clearly don’t normally pay attention because it isn’t affecting your life which is fine.

The faux outrage no one consulted you. Now they are consulting you. Educate yourselves before you just go straight to freaking the F out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

I don’t know if you’ve ever had to schedule soccer or baseball fields, but in the fall/spring seasons, they are scheduled for pretty much every daylight hour the kids are not in school. If they had lights, they’d probably be scheduled to 10 pm. Summer they are used for camps and private reservations. Some fields even see use in winter although not as much as you’d expect.

And when the kids are in school, the ones on APS property are being used by school kids for gym class, after care, recess, etc. The ones on Arlington property are open to anyone who might want to use them.

As coaches, we do a fair amount of the day to day maintenance for the ball fields. Ever drag a rake across a mud pit so your kids might be able to play their first game in weeks? I have.

Outside of fall and spring sports, fields are lightly used. Barcroft runs year round with only 1 closure week.