Arlington proposing to close county gymnastics program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

Again…WATCH BOARD MEETING.

The head guy explained that on this coming Tuesday they will be proposing fee and tax rate increases across the board. Including likely this one. That is how this works. The board advertises and proposes revenue and fee increases every year and there is time to comment and then they vote on it. You just clearly don’t normally pay attention because it isn’t affecting your life which is fine.

The faux outrage no one consulted you. Now they are consulting you. Educate yourselves before you just go straight to freaking the F out.

Nevermind the faux outrage on this thread that somehow gymnastics parents were supposed to have already offered to pay more?!? This came out of nowhere. No one knew it was even being considered or that there was a problem. And still no one knows if there's a real problem. Just like when APS proposed closing Nottingham it use it as a swing space, only to backtrack and decide they don't need a swing space and their proposal made no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

Again…WATCH BOARD MEETING.

The head guy explained that on this coming Tuesday they will be proposing fee and tax rate increases across the board. Including likely this one. That is how this works. The board advertises and proposes revenue and fee increases every year and there is time to comment and then they vote on it. You just clearly don’t normally pay attention because it isn’t affecting your life which is fine.

The faux outrage no one consulted you. Now they are consulting you. Educate yourselves before you just go straight to freaking the F out.

Nevermind the faux outrage on this thread that somehow gymnastics parents were supposed to have already offered to pay more?!? This came out of nowhere. No one knew it was even being considered or that there was a problem. And still no one knows if there's a real problem. Just like when APS proposed closing Nottingham it use it as a swing space, only to backtrack and decide they don't need a swing space and their proposal made no sense.

So they are supposed to clear all this with you, the interested stakeholders, privately before they propose this to the broader community for comment. Hmm. That seems like that would mostly be in your own interest.

Maybe the County has no basis for this proposal and it will all fall apart upon further inspection or maybe you all will bully them into submission like you do APS even if it’s a sound idea that most people actually agree with but they are not as shrill as you are. But the point is the process just freaking started.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

I don’t know if you’ve ever had to schedule soccer or baseball fields, but in the fall/spring seasons, they are scheduled for pretty much every daylight hour the kids are not in school. If they had lights, they’d probably be scheduled to 10 pm. Summer they are used for camps and private reservations. Some fields even see use in winter although not as much as you’d expect.

And when the kids are in school, the ones on APS property are being used by school kids for gym class, after care, recess, etc. The ones on Arlington property are open to anyone who might want to use them.

As coaches, we do a fair amount of the day to day maintenance for the ball fields. Ever drag a rake across a mud pit so your kids might be able to play their first game in weeks? I have.

Outside of fall and spring sports, fields are lightly used. Barcroft runs year round with only 1 closure week.

Even if this is true, which I don’t agree with what you are saying, the fields are not the same expense or asset to manage as a building. It’s apples to oranges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

I don’t know if you’ve ever had to schedule soccer or baseball fields, but in the fall/spring seasons, they are scheduled for pretty much every daylight hour the kids are not in school. If they had lights, they’d probably be scheduled to 10 pm. Summer they are used for camps and private reservations. Some fields even see use in winter although not as much as you’d expect.

And when the kids are in school, the ones on APS property are being used by school kids for gym class, after care, recess, etc. The ones on Arlington property are open to anyone who might want to use them.

As coaches, we do a fair amount of the day to day maintenance for the ball fields. Ever drag a rake across a mud pit so your kids might be able to play their first game in weeks? I have.

Outside of fall and spring sports, fields are lightly used. Barcroft runs year round with only 1 closure week.

Even if this is true, which I don’t agree with what you are saying, the fields are not the same expense or asset to manage as a building. It’s apples to oranges.

How much is Long Bridge used in the summer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

Again…WATCH BOARD MEETING.

The head guy explained that on this coming Tuesday they will be proposing fee and tax rate increases across the board. Including likely this one. That is how this works. The board advertises and proposes revenue and fee increases every year and there is time to comment and then they vote on it. You just clearly don’t normally pay attention because it isn’t affecting your life which is fine.

The faux outrage no one consulted you. Now they are consulting you. Educate yourselves before you just go straight to freaking the F out.

Nevermind the faux outrage on this thread that somehow gymnastics parents were supposed to have already offered to pay more?!? This came out of nowhere. No one knew it was even being considered or that there was a problem. And still no one knows if there's a real problem. Just like when APS proposed closing Nottingham it use it as a swing space, only to backtrack and decide they don't need a swing space and their proposal made no sense.

So they are supposed to clear all this with you, the interested stakeholders, privately before they propose this to the broader community for comment. Hmm. That seems like that would mostly be in your own interest.

Maybe the County has no basis for this proposal and it will all fall apart upon further inspection or maybe you all will bully them into submission like you do APS even if it’s a sound idea that most people actually agree with but they are not as shrill as you are. But the point is the process just freaking started.

I think most normal people would expect the county to propose changes to the program to try to save it over a few years before proposing to kill it with no warning. It's been part of Arlington for almost 50 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

I don’t know if you’ve ever had to schedule soccer or baseball fields, but in the fall/spring seasons, they are scheduled for pretty much every daylight hour the kids are not in school. If they had lights, they’d probably be scheduled to 10 pm. Summer they are used for camps and private reservations. Some fields even see use in winter although not as much as you’d expect.

And when the kids are in school, the ones on APS property are being used by school kids for gym class, after care, recess, etc. The ones on Arlington property are open to anyone who might want to use them.

As coaches, we do a fair amount of the day to day maintenance for the ball fields. Ever drag a rake across a mud pit so your kids might be able to play their first game in weeks? I have.

Outside of fall and spring sports, fields are lightly used. Barcroft runs year round with only 1 closure week.

Even if this is true, which I don’t agree with what you are saying, the fields are not the same expense or asset to manage as a building. It’s apples to oranges.

How much is Long Bridge used in the summer?

The pool? Are you serious?

[Anonymous]

Didn't they just have sign ups for summer gymnastics camps? Are those parents all now in limbo and don't know if they need to scramble to find another camp?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

Again…WATCH BOARD MEETING.

The head guy explained that on this coming Tuesday they will be proposing fee and tax rate increases across the board. Including likely this one. That is how this works. The board advertises and proposes revenue and fee increases every year and there is time to comment and then they vote on it. You just clearly don’t normally pay attention because it isn’t affecting your life which is fine.

The faux outrage no one consulted you. Now they are consulting you. Educate yourselves before you just go straight to freaking the F out.

Nevermind the faux outrage on this thread that somehow gymnastics parents were supposed to have already offered to pay more?!? This came out of nowhere. No one knew it was even being considered or that there was a problem. And still no one knows if there's a real problem. Just like when APS proposed closing Nottingham it use it as a swing space, only to backtrack and decide they don't need a swing space and their proposal made no sense.

So they are supposed to clear all this with you, the interested stakeholders, privately before they propose this to the broader community for comment. Hmm. That seems like that would mostly be in your own interest.

Maybe the County has no basis for this proposal and it will all fall apart upon further inspection or maybe you all will bully them into submission like you do APS even if it’s a sound idea that most people actually agree with but they are not as shrill as you are. But the point is the process just freaking started.

I think most normal people would expect the county to propose changes to the program to try to save it over a few years before proposing to kill it with no warning. It's been part of Arlington for almost 50 years.

Huh. I am normal and I do not think the county should talk about this with you for years. Based on 1 day I can’t imagine how years would go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is classic Arlington posturing. The county puts forward the idea of cutting something popular to get more support for raising taxes.

100% APS will be doing the same thing in a few weeks. It happens almost every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is classic Arlington posturing. The county puts forward the idea of cutting something popular to get more support for raising taxes.

100% APS will be doing the same thing in a few weeks. It happens almost every year.

This year there is already a 1.5 cent tax rate increase built in to the proposed budget. They have to raise taxes even more than this to save these programs.

I do think economic conditions are a bit worse than oh this is just another year.

[Anonymous]

what would they most likely repurpose the building to? indoor tennis clay courts maybe? relatively lower cost of maintenance and might even be profitable if done right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what would they most likely repurpose the building to? indoor tennis clay courts maybe? relatively lower cost of maintenance and might even be profitable if done right.

I assume turn at least one of the gymnastics spaces back into a basketball gym. I think it was 2017ish when the changed the basketball court into a second gymnastics space because of the high demand.

[Anonymous]

As someone who has tried to enroll a child in the gymnastics through the county several times and never once been successful (for four children), I have questioned why county resources are spent on something that seems like is primarily available for people with connections and then a handful of people who are extremely lucky on registration day. If the county can't provide a resource to a significant amount of residents who want to participate in the program, it seems reasonable to reallocate the resources used for that program to another use that can be available to a greater number of residents. I know very little about the program since I have literally never been able to enroll a child, but it has always felt more like a private club than an actual county program that is accessible to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

I don’t know if you’ve ever had to schedule soccer or baseball fields, but in the fall/spring seasons, they are scheduled for pretty much every daylight hour the kids are not in school. If they had lights, they’d probably be scheduled to 10 pm. Summer they are used for camps and private reservations. Some fields even see use in winter although not as much as you’d expect.

And when the kids are in school, the ones on APS property are being used by school kids for gym class, after care, recess, etc. The ones on Arlington property are open to anyone who might want to use them.

As coaches, we do a fair amount of the day to day maintenance for the ball fields. Ever drag a rake across a mud pit so your kids might be able to play their first game in weeks? I have.

Outside of fall and spring sports, fields are lightly used. Barcroft runs year round with only 1 closure week.

Barcroft is also a BUILDING with all the attendant costs, like plumbing, water, sewer, electric, heat, AC, janitorial, and administrative. Someone has to be there every second it is open. It costs money even when it’s not because it’s not like you can shut the heat off overnight.

A field is a field. Let’s not pretend the costs of running an actual facility are anywhere near the costs of periodically mowing and resending a field. Many of these fields aren’t even on buildable ground anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Such a ridiculous cut. We don’t have a dog in this fight; my kids stopped doing gymnastics in preschool. However, the demand is there. Arlington P&R has gotten so adverse to charging for anything and always covering costs for any family that can’t come up with it themselves that they are bankrupting their programs. They now let people who need fee assistance to register first for summer camp, so they will literally fill the most popular, in-demand camps with kids that bring in no money before people who can pay the fees can even register. I’m all for helping all kids get access to these programs, but if it means they have to cut the programs entirely, where is the good in that?

This is not correct. The county only holds a few early registration classes for each camp, so they don’t really fill up.