Arlington proposing to close county gymnastics program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

[Anonymous]

This cut is absolute insanity. This program is so good for our kids. And listening to the meeting yesterday, they want to cut this and library to increase some salaries, namely in the police force, and build up reserves. How about we fund what we need today and let the reserves just be. What good is tomorrow if we kill our property values and community by cutting these sorts of programs.

And I'll add to say that there are other programs in the area is a flat out falsehood. We have been at three other gyms in the area. They all have had MAJOR safe sport problems -- men treating young girls in a way that isn't okay. Coaches having relationships with gymnastics. Coaches using public body shaming on athletes. There are other programs on paper. But they are not all safe programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Ha my autocorrect tuned that into pickle ball up soccer. Sorry. Pick up soccer.

[Anonymous]

This is classic Arlington posturing. The county puts forward the idea of cutting something popular to get more support for raising taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This cut is absolute insanity. This program is so good for our kids. And listening to the meeting yesterday, they want to cut this and library to increase some salaries, namely in the police force, and build up reserves. How about we fund what we need today and let the reserves just be. What good is tomorrow if we kill our property values and community by cutting these sorts of programs.

And I'll add to say that there are other programs in the area is a flat out falsehood. We have been at three other gyms in the area. They all have had MAJOR safe sport problems -- men treating young girls in a way that isn't okay. Coaches having relationships with gymnastics. Coaches using public body shaming on athletes. There are other programs on paper. But they are not all safe programs.

People should listen to the meeting and people should pay attention to who they vote for long before these types of issues come up. As we all know, elections have consequences.

One party rule in Arlington ushered in collective bargaining for public safety with zero attention. Peek under the hood how much that is costing the County. This County Board follows the Gold Star Liberal talking points on all issues every single time and there isn't a lot of discussion about the far-reaching implications of any of it and they're just going to raise taxes to pay for all of it. And no I'm not MAGA and I vote Dem so I hope this doesn't devolve into that because boring. I do however think one-party rule isn't good for any level of government and I think people don't pay attention to local government elections like they should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

The overhead is the gymnastics management, which has to get paid whether they're running 150 classes a quarter or 100 classes a quarter.

You can either run the program like a sleepy county program focused on low costs to make the program available to all and have it be subsidized, or you can run it like a business so it covers its costs. Both are viable models given demand. But you can't run it like a county project and then fault it for not covering its own costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

The overhead is the gymnastics management, which has to get paid whether they're running 150 classes a quarter or 100 classes a quarter.

You can either run the program like a sleepy county program focused on low costs to make the program available to all and have it be subsidized, or you can run it like a business so it covers its costs. Both are viable models given demand. But you can't run it like a county project and then fault it for not covering its own costs.

The issue is this isn’t a “sleepy” program. It’s an expensive to run large program that is hosting elite gymnastics teams. People can and should say it’s not the government’s role to figure out how to run a profitable gymnastics gym like a business. Any parks and rec department should be offering low level basic introduction to recreational sports. Sorry that is not what they are currently doing. You don’t need that whole setup to offer kids basic gymnastics classes at an entry level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The county should at least calculate the cost of the program (including things like utilities and maintenance for the facility, but not building it as that is more akin to turf fields at this point) and ask the families if they can lay the higher fees. The slash and burn budgeting is going to bite them, and they better not tear down or otherwise use a facility purpose-built for gymnastics for storage or just close it. That would be a waste of already-spent money!

The county also needs to hold itself accountable for fully staffing and utilizing the space if the expectation is to recover fees. Private gyms do things like host birthday parties for a fee to bring in revenues. If the county doesn't have qualified coaches for more classes, they need to do things to fill the facility that don't require highly qualified coaches (e.g., 4 yo birthday parties that can be led by someone who is good with kids, but not a gymnastics coach).

The County is supposed to turn into a birthday party provider to subsidize kids doing gymnastics? Whut.

As a taxpayer who pays out the nose for private programs due to insane Parks and Rec waitlists, I’m having a very hard time understanding why I need to subsidize some kids doing gymnastics while paying out the nose for my kids.

Gymnastics parents - you will have a much easier time with getting support from the community if you offer to take on more of the costs of running your program. Offer to pay space fees - not the whole of it but what outside groups would pay. Offer to form a booster club to help support meet fees and coach salaries and provide scholarships to kids who can’t pay. Your costs will go up, but by definition the demand will go down and maybe you’ll reach a place where you can pay enough coaches to meet it.

The idea that a handful of some of the richest people in the country should get a bonanza because they were quick with the signup just blows my mind.

There was zero engagement with the gymnastics community or any suggestion that there needed to be a fee increase. That was never proposed. They just announced a plan to shut the program down in three months with zero warning.

If Arlington wants to require fee recovery for its sports programs, it should do so across the board, including for AAC, basketball and field sports. All those rec basketball kids can help subsidize our schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents will happily pay more, its a good program.

+1

+2

The gymanstics people and the swim people should pay for what the programs cost, including a share of the giant buildings dedicated to your sport that you use for free.

The buildings aren't being used for free as everyone pays fees. These buildings should be packed with toddler, preschool and little kid classes, as demand is through the roof. If Arlington wants to recover costs, they need to do their jobs and utilize the space. They should be hosting kid gymnastics birthday parties, open gym nights with babysitting, senior workout classes during the day, etc. We have the facility. Parks and Rec just need to do their jobs and fill it.

They are getting the space for free. At least for swimming, the county and APS charge outside groups rental fees. It makes up a huge portion of the costs for club swimmers. Many of whom I’m sure would be happy to swim for AAC if it didn’t fill up immediately.

That's the county model. Teams aren't paying the full cost of their field usage either given the value of land in Arlington. We can change the model, but it should be done across the board. In this case, there was never a proposal to change fees.

Acting like the fields are the same thing as a gym dedicated to gymnastics is not a winning argument. These fields are heavily used by the community and it’s not just kids and families it’s people of all ages playing pickle ball up soccer, volleyball etc.

Also the idea the county should turn into a birthday party facility to help pay for this??

Just say we can afford it and we will pay more taxes. Or say what you would cut instead.

We haven’t even seen the schools cuts yet.

Have you been in the Barcroft gym? It's packed with kids of all ages doing gymnastics. Every station has kids. It's no different than the fields.

Yes, my kids went to Barcroft when they were younger. I understand it is used. The point is yes that's serving a niche interest. Trying to make it sound like this is some widely used thing is just not the way to go in my opinion if you want to argue against the cut. The fields have adults using them regularly. They are big with the 20-something crowd. Go by Quincy Park on a warm evening. Volleyball all over and non-organized soccer being played. Older people doing yoga classes. People walk their dogs. Other people do live here. People with kids tend to think they are the only taxpayers in this County. We're not.

Every sport is a niche interest. You can't play soccer on a tennis court or basketball on a volleyball court. If there's demand to keep the space heavily utilized then the facility is justified. Fields aren't even close to fully utilized with many sitting empty got big chunks of time. The Barcroft gym is just as busy year-round as the busiest warm day at Quincy park.

We don't expect senior centers to have activities for all. Nor do we ask Arlington's nature centers to run programs for adults--those are almost entirely targeted at kids. Nor are playgrounds designed for all ages. That's never been an expectation that every resource has to be for all ages.

Missing the point. It’s about the cost of providing the resource and what is the role of government. I can appreciate that people who use it like that their county is providing them a subsidized competitive gymnastics team in a very well equipped and dedicated gym for their use. Is that what they should be doing when we can’t afford everything the county is doing?

Throw down some mats in the corner of TJ and offer basic gymnastics classes for entry level kids 0-5.