An Open Discussion on Split Feeders.

Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:I would fix the middle schools in Reston/Oak Hill/Chantilly. There's no reason for Carson, Franklin, Rocky run to be split feeders.
Rocky Run is not a split feeder, but it does have AAP students which feed to other schools like Westfield and Centreville.


AAP is over half the school, and around half of AAP comes from other pyramids. So around 25% of the school is transferring from other pyramids. We are in boundary for Rocky. I'm seriously considering having my AAP kid drop to honors in MS if it's not fixed by then because the kids in those classes should all continue to Chantilly, vs only approx half of the AAP cohort.


You should learn more about MS scheduling before making your decision. My RR student is in AAP and has very few classes with students who were in their ES program. There are just so many students that the mix is much greater. And it doesn’t matter for HS - AAP ends after 8th. If what you’re saying is you think it would be better for your student’s friends too move along with him to high school, I don’t disagree but also see value in having friends at other nearby schools.


Pp here, yes, I would prefer my kid not spend 2 years making friends and then half of them do not continue on to the same school. I think it makes the transition to 9th grade a little more difficult.


If your kid is at a MS that splits fairly evenly to two high schools, that's no big deal. They'll have a large cohort of kids going to the same high school yet the chance to make new friends. It's the really uneven split feeders that can be more of an issue but as PP pointed out you get people like the parents at Kilmer who fight to stay at Madison even though only 15% or so of Kilmer feeds there rather than Marshall.
This is why I’m fighting for the idea of an Oakton Area Middle School.


They should get Oakton down to two feeders eventually, probably Franklin and Jackson (again). No need for a new MS.


We have more middle schools than high schools.

When the new high-school opens, we will have one more middle school than high schools.

We should have no more than one or two middle school split feeders, and those midfle schools should not split to more than 2 high schools.


What you want and what other people want and FCPS will do are not the same thing.
I agree that Middle-High School alignment is important, but here’s the thing.

Scenario 4 boundary changes illustrate Bren Mar Park moving back to Annandale from Edison, with all of Parklawn moving to Justice.

The issue lies with Mason Crest.

I propose moving Justice Bound Mason Crest Students to Beech Tree or Belvedere, and with them out, adding 6th grade to Mason Crest, zoning it for Jackson to align with Falls Church, or also rezoning it completely to Glasgow/Justice.

Poe would shrink to Annandale Terrace and Braddock in this scenario, which could end up resulting in a singular “Annandale Middle School”

I think that site would be the Poe site, which would retain its name, with something happening to Holmes (I want to keep it open for capacity reasons due to the lack of Elementary 6th grade in the Annandale Pyramid, where Annandale Terrace, Braddock, Bren Mar Park, Columbia, North Springfield, and Weyanoke may not have the capacity to add 6th grade classrooms, resulting in a snag.

Therefore, Poe holds Annandale Terrace, Braddock, and North Springfield, and Holmes takes Bren Mar Park, Columbia, and Weyanoke.

If Mason Crest moves to the Justice Pyramid, I fear a second 6-8 MS could be needed. That MS would hold Beech Tree, Belvedere, Mason Crest, and Sleepy Hollow, with Glasgow holding Baileys, Glen Forest, Parklawn, and a new Mason District ES in the Baileys Crossroads/ Skyline area, as well as Justice Pyramid AAP.

Unless Glasgow and Justice Pyramid MS II both have AAP.

However it might not be needed if AAP is placed into the Annandale Middle Schools, unless only one is needed.

Jackson therefore, takes Camelot, Fairhill, Graham Road, Pine Spring, Falls Church Part of Timber Lane (moves to Graham Road to put school in Attendance Area with Pine Spring Island), Westlawn, and Woodburn, with Falls Church losing its part of Mason Crest Feeding into it.

With Oakton, we have reached a problem too.

If Western HS has comprehensive school boundaries and no magnet program and takes Westfield part of Coates, Crossfield, Floris, Fox Mill, McNair, Navy Island, and Oak Hill (if it has the room after interior work is done) unless it takes just Fox Mill or Crossfield, Carson will redraw boundaries to be consistent with this new HS as one would hope.

Furthermore, option maps show Bull Run, Part of Brookfield west of Flatlick Branch, and Chantilly feeding part of Cub Run to Westfield, which would result in that becoming consistent with stone.

Say Western takes both Crossfield and Fox Mill plus Navy Island, and Carson aligns its boundaries to that which would mean including Oak Hill, that means Franklin remains with Lees Corner, Navy sans Island, and Waples Mill, meaning it would still be a split feeder for Chantilly and Oakton.

This is where my proposal for an Oakton Middle School comes into play.

It takes Navy sans Island, Waples Mill, Oakton feeding part of Oakton ES, Mosaic, and Oakton Feeding part of Marshall Road, remaining consistent with the OHS boundaries.

It would also as per Scenario 4, take students in from Providence, KJMS, and Fairfax High School north of 66 who are not in the City of Fairfax.

Land is available near Oakmont and Flint Hill for a new MS, and at the site of Oakton Elementary School, which if an agreement is made with Flint Hill, the Hazel Lower School moves to that land near Oakmont, and a new middle school is built where Oakton ES stands, and Oakton Elementary Moves to Blake Lane Park, the aforementioned dog park where a Fairfax/Oakton Area ES was originally supposed to be built before Dunn Loring happened.

That’s my take after looking into the misalignment of middle schools in FCPS.


It's sad that you're spending so much time writing about things about which you're so out of touch with residents and FCPS.

Let's just talk about your proposals relating to Justice, Annandale and Falls Church.

Yes, Scenario 4 moves Bren Mar Park back to Annandale to eliminate the split feeder at Holmes, but then FCPS put out a later proposal to move Bren Mar Park to Lewis, only to table that proposal and announce that Bren Mar Park will remain at Edison for at least the next five years. So you're working with stale information.

Second, Scenario 3 proposed to move the Justice part of Mason Crest back to Belvedere, which is where it went before Mason Crest opened around 2012. The families affected pushed hard to stay at Mason Crest, so FCPS undid that change in Scenario 4. Again, you're proposing something already considered and rejected. In fact, they are now proposing to move the Justice part of Mason Crest from Glasgow/Justice to Poe/Falls Church, because the local School Board member (Ricardy Anderson) is far more interested in reducing the enrollment at Glasgow than eliminating the split feeder at Poe. In fact, the latest proposal that FCPS staff put out to address Anderson's wants turns Belvedere into a new split feeder to Holmes and Glasgow, turns Beech Tree into a new split feeder to Poe/Falls Church and Glasgow/Justice, and turns Holmes into a three-way split feeder to Annandale, Edison, and Justice. Maybe they'll reconsider and reassign the part of Belvedere moving to Holmes to Annandale, so Holmes stays a two-way split feeder, but they've made no such announcement yet.

Your other proposals seem to leave Holmes and Poe too small, and further burden Glasgow when, as noted, the big push has been to reduce the enrollment there. They are no more likely to build another middle school to feed into Justice than they are to build a new middle school that feeds exclusively to Oakton.

Oh, I missed those parts.

Would you mind providing those slides so that I can look into this new information.

I don’t understand Regions 2 and 6, but I understand 1 and 5 as that’s more where I’m from, and I emailed Karl Frisch, Seema Dixie, and Melanie Meren yesterday about the middle school.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would fix the middle schools in Reston/Oak Hill/Chantilly. There's no reason for Carson, Franklin, Rocky run to be split feeders.
Rocky Run is not a split feeder, but it does have AAP students which feed to other schools like Westfield and Centreville.


AAP is over half the school, and around half of AAP comes from other pyramids. So around 25% of the school is transferring from other pyramids. We are in boundary for Rocky. I'm seriously considering having my AAP kid drop to honors in MS if it's not fixed by then because the kids in those classes should all continue to Chantilly, vs only approx half of the AAP cohort.


You should learn more about MS scheduling before making your decision. My RR student is in AAP and has very few classes with students who were in their ES program. There are just so many students that the mix is much greater. And it doesn’t matter for HS - AAP ends after 8th. If what you’re saying is you think it would be better for your student’s friends too move along with him to high school, I don’t disagree but also see value in having friends at other nearby schools.


Pp here, yes, I would prefer my kid not spend 2 years making friends and then half of them do not continue on to the same school. I think it makes the transition to 9th grade a little more difficult.


Agreed yet when given the choice between moving to a MS that has fewer after school programs and is weaker academically, most parents will choose the split feeder. There are very few schools where parents would see the move from their split feeder to the MS that feeds into the base school as a positive.


You don't think some of these after school programs would get created and test scores at the base school would rise if all the AAP kids had to attend school at the base school?


Hughes is an AAP Center and does not have a Mathcounts team or Science Olympiad or most of the other academic clubs that Carson has. So no, I don't think that it is as easy as saying "redistribute the AAP kids" because there are AAP Centers that lack the academic clubs that other schools have.


I'm guessing your base school is Franklin. Franklin will have more academic clubs if there is a demand for them. They had a very good Math Counts team when my second kid was there, so if there's a demand, they'll have them.


The point is AAP Centers are not equal, which is why some people are not happy with the removal of AAP Centers from MS. Carson has enough kids who are advanced in Math to offer at least one class in Algebra II, Franklin does not. I suspect that is the case for a lot of MS. You can send the Fox Mill and Floris kids to Hughes and you will not end up with the same level clubs. Those things are important for people.

Knowing the cut scores at Carson for Mathcounts, the Franklin or Hughes Mathcounts team will get stomped on at chapter. And I get that MS is not based on after school clubs and the like but there is a reason why parents want thier kids at the super centers, there are options there for kids who need a peer group that they won't find at most schools. That is not necessarily a bad thing.


Franklin and all of the other middle schools would be able to offer at least one Algebra 2 class if every middle school had an AAP program with no transfers out

The class might only have 15 students, but every middle school would have enough advanced students to offer the class
If I were Karl Frisch, I’d be helping to build an OMS!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Fcps has 24 traditional high schools.

FCPS has 26 middle schools.

How many split feeder middle schools are there?

Every FCPS high school should have one dedicated middle school that os NOT a split feeder.

Only 2 middle schools should be split feeders; one after the new high school opens.

It should not be difficult to fix this.

Why didn't the boundary review focus on eliminating split feeders, particularly at the middle school level?


People zoned to Madison would rather keep split feeders than end up at Marshall.


Not for all of us. My kids went to Wolftrap, Kilmer and then Madison. It was fine but the split feeders sucked. If I could have done it over again, I would have tried to pupil place them to Marshall. All of their close friends went there from elementary and middle school. Madison was fine and our youngest is still there. All of them made friends there. But I think they would have been happier at Marshall.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Fcps has 24 traditional high schools.

FCPS has 26 middle schools.

How many split feeder middle schools are there?

Every FCPS high school should have one dedicated middle school that os NOT a split feeder.

Only 2 middle schools should be split feeders; one after the new high school opens.

It should not be difficult to fix this.

Why didn't the boundary review focus on eliminating split feeders, particularly at the middle school level?


People zoned to Madison would rather keep split feeders than end up at Marshall.


Not for all of us. My kids went to Wolftrap, Kilmer and then Madison. It was fine but the split feeders sucked. If I could have done it over again, I would have tried to pupil place them to Marshall. All of their close friends went there from elementary and middle school. Madison was fine and our youngest is still there. All of them made friends there. But I think they would have been happier at Marshall.


Most of Wolftrap goes to Madison now. In any event, it's people in the Town of Vienna in particular who've pushed back at any effort to make Westbriar a 100% feeder to Kilmer and then Marshall. If there was any proposal for all of Wolftrap to go to Marshall, they'd push back at that, too.
Anonymous
Obviously they won’t be able to get rid of some of the split feeders. But I think the thinking in trying to get rid of some of them (which I don’t think was really accomplished by the boundary process … but anyway) is that students feel disconnected from their schools when there are a lot of split feeders happening. It’s not a huge concern at a roughly 50-50 split school that is larger. It can be a big concern when it’s a lopsided split or a 3 way split especially at a smaller school. FCPS loves those student surveys and tracking attendance statistics and they must think that reducing split feeders will increase attendance at the upper levels because more kids will go to school with their friends from lower grades. And maybe also reduce commute times and increase community involvement and all that.
Anonymous
I wonder if people in this area know that in many parts of the country each high school has multiple feeders. So 2 or more elementary schools go to one middle school and then two or more middle schools feed into one high school. The idea of only one middle school feeding into a high schools is unusual.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I wonder if people in this area know that in many parts of the country each high school has multiple feeders. So 2 or more elementary schools go to one middle school and then two or more middle schools feed into one high school. The idea of only one middle school feeding into a high schools is unusual.


I think it just shows there are a lot of different scenarios. Sure, a true "pyramid" structure like the one you describe may be common elsewhere, but we have the middle and high schools we have, in the locations where they are, with capacities that aren't always aligned. Split feeders are inevitable.

If they could do one thing, it should be to align the capacities of the middle and high schools where possible. So where it would otherwise make sense to have a single 7-8 MS feed to a single HS in FCPS, the HS should have twice the capacity of the MS or, stated differently, the MS should have 50% the capacity of the HS.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Fcps has 24 traditional high schools.

FCPS has 26 middle schools.

How many split feeder middle schools are there?

Every FCPS high school should have one dedicated middle school that os NOT a split feeder.

Only 2 middle schools should be split feeders; one after the new high school opens.

It should not be difficult to fix this.

Why didn't the boundary review focus on eliminating split feeders, particularly at the middle school level?


People zoned to Madison would rather keep split feeders than end up at Marshall.


Not for all of us. My kids went to Wolftrap, Kilmer and then Madison. It was fine but the split feeders sucked. If I could have done it over again, I would have tried to pupil place them to Marshall. All of their close friends went there from elementary and middle school. Madison was fine and our youngest is still there. All of them made friends there. But I think they would have been happier at Marshall.


Most of Wolftrap goes to Madison now. In any event, it's people in the Town of Vienna in particular who've pushed back at any effort to make Westbriar a 100% feeder to Kilmer and then Marshall. If there was any proposal for all of Wolftrap to go to Marshall, they'd push back at that, too.


That’s good. I’m glad they fixed it for the younger kids. You can tell I’m not following the boundary updates since we are almost done with FCPS. Marshall and Madison are both great schools. I was just commenting to the poster who said that people had something against Marshall. Maybe some do. Most of us in Vienna don’t and think it’s a good school.
Anonymous
And to clarify, when I said that’s great, I meant it’s great that the kids can all be together in HS.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Fcps has 24 traditional high schools.

FCPS has 26 middle schools.

How many split feeder middle schools are there?

Every FCPS high school should have one dedicated middle school that os NOT a split feeder.

Only 2 middle schools should be split feeders; one after the new high school opens.

It should not be difficult to fix this.

Why didn't the boundary review focus on eliminating split feeders, particularly at the middle school level?


People zoned to Madison would rather keep split feeders than end up at Marshall.


Not for all of us. My kids went to Wolftrap, Kilmer and then Madison. It was fine but the split feeders sucked. If I could have done it over again, I would have tried to pupil place them to Marshall. All of their close friends went there from elementary and middle school. Madison was fine and our youngest is still there. All of them made friends there. But I think they would have been happier at Marshall.


Most of Wolftrap goes to Madison now. In any event, it's people in the Town of Vienna in particular who've pushed back at any effort to make Westbriar a 100% feeder to Kilmer and then Marshall. If there was any proposal for all of Wolftrap to go to Marshall, they'd push back at that, too.


That’s good. I’m glad they fixed it for the younger kids. You can tell I’m not following the boundary updates since we are almost done with FCPS. Marshall and Madison are both great schools. I was just commenting to the poster who said that people had something against Marshall. Maybe some do. Most of us in Vienna don’t and think it’s a good school.


People at Madison will say Marshall is a good school, but generally will not agree to move there to eliminate a split feeder. It's one example of why prioritizing the elimination of split feeders is a fool's errand.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Fcps has 24 traditional high schools.

FCPS has 26 middle schools.

How many split feeder middle schools are there?

Every FCPS high school should have one dedicated middle school that os NOT a split feeder.

Only 2 middle schools should be split feeders; one after the new high school opens.

It should not be difficult to fix this.

Why didn't the boundary review focus on eliminating split feeders, particularly at the middle school level?


People zoned to Madison would rather keep split feeders than end up at Marshall.


Not for all of us. My kids went to Wolftrap, Kilmer and then Madison. It was fine but the split feeders sucked. If I could have done it over again, I would have tried to pupil place them to Marshall. All of their close friends went there from elementary and middle school. Madison was fine and our youngest is still there. All of them made friends there. But I think they would have been happier at Marshall.


Most of Wolftrap goes to Madison now. In any event, it's people in the Town of Vienna in particular who've pushed back at any effort to make Westbriar a 100% feeder to Kilmer and then Marshall. If there was any proposal for all of Wolftrap to go to Marshall, they'd push back at that, too.


That’s good. I’m glad they fixed it for the younger kids. You can tell I’m not following the boundary updates since we are almost done with FCPS. Marshall and Madison are both great schools. I was just commenting to the poster who said that people had something against Marshall. Maybe some do. Most of us in Vienna don’t and think it’s a good school.
Then let ya selves move there!
Anonymous
Oakton Middle School is not needed in this state of FCPS with the enrollment drop.

But Franklin might be the first 4 way feeder for high schools.

Chantilly, Oakton, Western, and Westfield.

With the rise of Social Media, kids can connect via parties and such.

And with the phone ban they can communicate over their @fcpsschools.net emails!

This is cool
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Oakton Middle School is not needed in this state of FCPS with the enrollment drop.

But Franklin might be the first 4 way feeder for high schools.

Chantilly, Oakton, Western, and Westfield.

With the rise of Social Media, kids can connect via parties and such.

And with the phone ban they can communicate over their @fcpsschools.net emails!

This is cool
This is passive aggressive for you wanting your new middle school isn’t it?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Oakton Middle School is not needed in this state of FCPS with the enrollment drop.

But Franklin might be the first 4 way feeder for high schools.

Chantilly, Oakton, Western, and Westfield.

With the rise of Social Media, kids can connect via parties and such.

And with the phone ban they can communicate over their @fcpsschools.net emails!

This is cool


I bet that after they determine Western boundaries, they fix the boundaries for Carson/Franklin/Hughes accordingly if necessary.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oakton Middle School is not needed in this state of FCPS with the enrollment drop.

But Franklin might be the first 4 way feeder for high schools.

Chantilly, Oakton, Western, and Westfield.

With the rise of Social Media, kids can connect via parties and such.

And with the phone ban they can communicate over their @fcpsschools.net emails!

This is cool


I bet that after they determine Western boundaries, they fix the boundaries for Carson/Franklin/Hughes accordingly if necessary.
Hughes won’t be touched I don’t think.

As I read in another forum, Fox Mill woods (the neighborhood behind Crossfield, wants to remain at South Lakes).

I also read that Michelle won’t include Fox Mill and Crossfield in other options because she wants to either focus on relieving Westfield and Chantilly overcrowding, or b) creating a hybrid comprehensive HS with a magnet side.

And while I think we could benefit from full stem schools outside of comprehensive academies as “Academies,” this shouldn’t be the focus for Western.
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