Whatever happened to: "APs are a scam"

[Anonymous]

I totally disagree that APs are “easier.” I’ve also found the DE kids are generally less prepared than ones who take AP classes.

My son took BC Cal as a junior and scored a 3 but 4 on AB subsection. He just finished is freshman fall at UMD and earned an A grade, which only about 20 percent of students do.

[Anonymous]

APs are not a scam.
Kids learning a ton in them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:APs are not a scam.
Kids learning a ton in them.

Kids learn a ton in non-AP AL classes too, without the College Board tax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that APs are “easier.” I’ve also found the DE kids are generally less prepared than ones who take AP classes.

My son took BC Cal as a junior and scored a 3 but 4 on AB subsection. He just finished is freshman fall at UMD and earned an A grade, which only about 20 percent of students do.

An A grade in which class?


Unless your kid got a B or C in the AP class to match the exam grade, the AP class was in fact “easier”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that APs are “easier.” I’ve also found the DE kids are generally less prepared than ones who take AP classes.

My son took BC Cal as a junior and scored a 3 but 4 on AB subsection. He just finished is freshman fall at UMD and earned an A grade, which only about 20 percent of students do.

Please share your experience with MCPS DE students being less well prepared than students who take the same class via AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that APs are “easier.” I’ve also found the DE kids are generally less prepared than ones who take AP classes.

My son took BC Cal as a junior and scored a 3 but 4 on AB subsection. He just finished is freshman fall at UMD and earned an A grade, which only about 20 percent of students do.

An A grade in which class?


Unless your kid got a B or C in the AP class to match the exam grade, the AP class was in fact “easier”.

My son earned an A in Math141 Cal2 for engineering which is the ultimate weeder. He also earned an A in the class.

I agree the AP class was easier than his math class in college as he was also an A student. I disagree that AP scores are “easier” than the college class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that APs are “easier.” I’ve also found the DE kids are generally less prepared than ones who take AP classes.

My son took BC Cal as a junior and scored a 3 but 4 on AB subsection. He just finished is freshman fall at UMD and earned an A grade, which only about 20 percent of students do.

Please share your experience with MCPS DE students being less well prepared than students who take the same class via AP.

Community College does not offer the same level of rigor as a University. It’s always the advice for kids to Cal2 Orgo etc at CC and transfer the credits in because they are “easier”. With AP classes, you have to not only take the class but have to score a 4 or 5 on the exam.

Everyone whose kid we know that got 4s/5s on the AP exams were well prepared.

Several friends with kids in DE flunked out no one we knew did that with 4s and 5s. Most graduates with honors etc.

[Anonymous]

My kid is taking an AP class as a freshman and while it's not as rigorous as the similar survey class I took in college (non-ivy private liberal arts university), it's actually not that far behind. The difference is mostly that it's teaching to the test instead of encouraging research.

But from what I can tell, his experience with his teacher and class of maybe 22 kids is a better learning experience for the subject than mine was in a class of 200 kids with a professor who didn't know us and a team of TAs grading our papers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that APs are “easier.” I’ve also found the DE kids are generally less prepared than ones who take AP classes.

My son took BC Cal as a junior and scored a 3 but 4 on AB subsection. He just finished is freshman fall at UMD and earned an A grade, which only about 20 percent of students do.

Please share your experience with MCPS DE students being less well prepared than students who take the same class via AP.

Community College does not offer the same level of rigor as a University. It’s always the advice for kids to Cal2 Orgo etc at CC and transfer the credits in because they are “easier”. With AP classes, you have to not only take the class but have to score a 4 or 5 on the exam.

Everyone whose kid we know that got 4s/5s on the AP exams were well prepared.

Several friends with kids in DE flunked out no one we knew did that with 4s and 5s. Most graduates with honors etc.

In the first example are comparing CC classes to four year college classes which is not the same as comparing DE classes to AP classes.

If there was an AP organic chemistry I’m sure the advice would be the same as for DE chemistry, that it should be retaken.

And to confirm, are you saying you’ve seen a consistent pattern, across disciplines, with MCPS specific examples where you’ve observed two sets of kids where the students
1. took the exact same AP classes as students that took the DE class equivalent (eg one student took Calc BC while the other student took Calc 1 and Calc 2 at the community college) and
2. both students received the exact same grades in the AP and the DE classes, and
3. the DE students had totally different results from the AP students as they continued on in those same disciplines at equivalent rigor four year college?

[Anonymous]

They aren’t equal because the DE student earns a grade and receives credit from the 4 year school when they transfer. The AP student doesn’t receive credit for the class unless they earn a 4 or 5, which is a much, much higher bar than just getting a class grade. My argument is that the student who takes the AP class and scores 4/5 is better prepared than the student who just earns the CC level grade.

In terms of overall rigor of the class absent the AP exam, I’m sure it depends. If the DE class is limited to only high performing high school students the classroom experience is probably similar. I don’t think that’s typical. The typical AP student is going to be stronger than the average CC student.

As a parent, the end game is overall preparedness. I’d rather have my kid retake Cal2 in college and get an A rather than move immediately to Cal3 and struggle because the CC class wasn’t really equivalent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that APs are “easier.” I’ve also found the DE kids are generally less prepared than ones who take AP classes.

My son took BC Cal as a junior and scored a 3 but 4 on AB subsection. He just finished is freshman fall at UMD and earned an A grade, which only about 20 percent of students do.

Prepared for what? The AP test? College?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: They aren’t equal because the DE student earns a grade and receives credit from the 4 year school when they transfer. The AP student doesn’t receive credit for the class unless they earn a 4 or 5, which is a much, much higher bar than just getting a class grade. My argument is that the student who takes the AP class and scores 4/5 is better prepared than the student who just earns the CC level grade.

In terms of overall rigor of the class absent the AP exam, I’m sure it depends. If the DE class is limited to only high performing high school students the classroom experience is probably similar. I don’t think that’s typical. The typical AP student is going to be stronger than the average CC student.

As a parent, the end game is overall preparedness. I’d rather have my kid retake Cal2 in college and get an A rather than move immediately to Cal3 and struggle because the CC class wasn’t really equivalent.



Both AP and DE classes are not limited to only high performing high school students. The GPA for MCPS student to do dual enrollment is 2.75. MCPS high schools are not allowed (although I am sure some do) gate keep students who take an AP. Therefore, any student can take an AP in MCPS as long as they have the prerequisite classes.

To compare students who earn a 4 or 5 on AP with all students taking DE who pass (which includes the D grade student) seems unfair.

My ds did Calc 2 in CC, earned an A, and went on to UMD earning As in further math classes. He was a stem kid, so I am sure that is also a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that APs are “easier.” I’ve also found the DE kids are generally less prepared than ones who take AP classes.

My son took BC Cal as a junior and scored a 3 but 4 on AB subsection. He just finished is freshman fall at UMD and earned an A grade, which only about 20 percent of students do.

Prepared for what? The AP test? College?

The previous poster you are responding to has so much bias and so many logical fallacies it probably isn’t really worth responding to them at this point.

Like I have no idea how having a single AP test as opposed to grades coming from a whole semester automatically demonstrates deeper knowledge. It anything the AP test assesses competence based on whether you are a naturally good test taker…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or "AP classes are one of America's 'greatest frauds' "? From 2012. An Aug 2012 Atlantic piece and on npr from Dec 2012.

What has MCPS' done if APs really are a scam? Add IB courses? Create magnets? But don't magnets also use IB or AP courses? Create an in-house curriculum that doesn't use AP or IB?

Magnets and APs also serve different audiences in many cases.