Whatever happened to: "APs are a scam"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the absence of a functional Department of Education requiring a national exam at the end of high school, like France and Germany and the UK do, or national college entrance exams, like China and Korea and Japan do...

... we're stuck with private companies selling their own exams.

The AP exams, the SAT and the ACT are all legitimate, extensively-researched, and rigorous tests of knowledge. They're not scams. Colleges need to compare students to each other to evaluate their academic readiness, and GPAs can't serve that purpose since they're not calculated in the same way, using the same instructional quality or metrics, in different school systems.

It's too bad someone, the school or the end consumer, needs to pay for these private exams. But take it up with the government, and the voters.

Lol. The primarily progressive institutions that run educational departments nationwide would never condone something like this because it would show massive racial disparities. That’s why California eliminated the SAT for college admissions. Never going to happen.

That’s why MCPS never dares to show a map of average MCAP scores or SAT scores, although it’s not difficult at all to draw one as data are just publicly available. Instead they use GPA >=3.0 as the “proxy” for their success in equity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A kid who goes to college as a sophomore based on AP scores saves money (and I know why they'd make that choice!), but at the cost of education because they've substituted an accelerated high school level course for learning at the college level.

I'm the PP who said my kid could start as a second semester sophomore. She is in SMCS. I've looked at the curriculum and the content therein. It is certainly college level course work.

SMCS is something beyond AP classes, though. It's possible that that is comparable to a college level class, but bog standard AP classes aren't.

You don't even have to look very hard to see this. It's normal for freshmen to take APs now. With the exception of a few outliers, high school freshman are not capable of college level work. Possibly community college level work, but not work at the level of a decently selective college.

Guess what? Most students do not attend selective colleges!

Don't blame AP for not being something it never claimed to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College Board making $$$$$

Yes, it is... but it is a non profit.

That just means that the employees/managers and contractors get paid from the nonprofit income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the absence of a functional Department of Education requiring a national exam at the end of high school, like France and Germany and the UK do, or national college entrance exams, like China and Korea and Japan do...

... we're stuck with private companies selling their own exams.

The AP exams, the SAT and the ACT are all legitimate, extensively-researched, and rigorous tests of knowledge. They're not scams. Colleges need to compare students to each other to evaluate their academic readiness, and GPAs can't serve that purpose since they're not calculated in the same way, using the same instructional quality or metrics, in different school systems.

It's too bad someone, the school or the end consumer, needs to pay for these private exams. But take it up with the government, and the voters.

MD has MCAP which are end of school year tests administered in grades 3-8th. Also MCAP Algebra, MCAP Biology, Government test, MCAP English/some sort of English exam after 10th grade English.

Other states have exams too; but how do they compare to each other? Nothing but AP and SAT are national. They tried to get people on board with the Common Core, but it became the boogie man of the right and fell to politics.

Common Core is a list of general principles, not a standardized test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the absence of a functional Department of Education requiring a national exam at the end of high school, like France and Germany and the UK do, or national college entrance exams, like China and Korea and Japan do...

... we're stuck with private companies selling their own exams.

The AP exams, the SAT and the ACT are all legitimate, extensively-researched, and rigorous tests of knowledge. They're not scams. Colleges need to compare students to each other to evaluate their academic readiness, and GPAs can't serve that purpose since they're not calculated in the same way, using the same instructional quality or metrics, in different school systems.

It's too bad someone, the school or the end consumer, needs to pay for these private exams. But take it up with the government, and the voters.

Lol. The primarily progressive institutions that run educational departments nationwide would never condone something like this because it would show massive racial disparities. That’s why California eliminated the SAT for college admissions. Never going to happen.

That’s why MCPS never dares to show a map of average MCAP scores or SAT scores, although it’s not difficult at all to draw one as data are just publicly available. Instead they use GPA >=3.0 as the “proxy” for their success in equity.

You have no idea of what you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My only gripe with AP classes is the fact that the entire year of work really doesn’t matter if you do poorly on the test. There are a multitude of reasons why a kid might do poorly on the test, many of which are out of their control.

I prefer my daughter taking dual enrollment classes when she reaches 11th grade and can drive to MC. I know this sounds bad, but For now as a sophomore, she takes AP mainly to filter her classmates.

Except MC is truly crap. NOVA CC is good. The California ones are excellent some better than four year colleges. Montgomery County’s are truly terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My only gripe with AP classes is the fact that the entire year of work really doesn’t matter if you do poorly on the test. There are a multitude of reasons why a kid might do poorly on the test, many of which are out of their control.

I prefer my daughter taking dual enrollment classes when she reaches 11th grade and can drive to MC. I know this sounds bad, but For now as a sophomore, she takes AP mainly to filter her classmates.

Except MC is truly crap. NOVA CC is good. The California ones are excellent some better than four year colleges. Montgomery County’s are truly terrible.

You have no idea of what you're talking about. MC is among the best in the nation and the MD CCs are the best overall in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/08/some-of-the-best-community-colleges-in-the-country-are-here-in-the-dc-area-study-finds/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the absence of a functional Department of Education requiring a national exam at the end of high school, like France and Germany and the UK do, or national college entrance exams, like China and Korea and Japan do...

... we're stuck with private companies selling their own exams.

The AP exams, the SAT and the ACT are all legitimate, extensively-researched, and rigorous tests of knowledge. They're not scams. Colleges need to compare students to each other to evaluate their academic readiness, and GPAs can't serve that purpose since they're not calculated in the same way, using the same instructional quality or metrics, in different school systems.

It's too bad someone, the school or the end consumer, needs to pay for these private exams. But take it up with the government, and the voters.

MD has MCAP which are end of school year tests administered in grades 3-8th. Also MCAP Algebra, MCAP Biology, Government test, MCAP English/some sort of English exam after 10th grade English.

The MCAPs are what is really a scam -- the benchmarks are set so that all the kids will pass, because, of course, you want most kids to pass high school or you will screw their lifetime work opportunities.

Do they take MCAPs in high school?

That’s clearly not true or more kids would be passing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the absence of a functional Department of Education requiring a national exam at the end of high school, like France and Germany and the UK do, or national college entrance exams, like China and Korea and Japan do...

... we're stuck with private companies selling their own exams.

The AP exams, the SAT and the ACT are all legitimate, extensively-researched, and rigorous tests of knowledge. They're not scams. Colleges need to compare students to each other to evaluate their academic readiness, and GPAs can't serve that purpose since they're not calculated in the same way, using the same instructional quality or metrics, in different school systems.

It's too bad someone, the school or the end consumer, needs to pay for these private exams. But take it up with the government, and the voters.

MD has MCAP which are end of school year tests administered in grades 3-8th. Also MCAP Algebra, MCAP Biology, Government test, MCAP English/some sort of English exam after 10th grade English.

Other states have exams too; but how do they compare to each other? Nothing but AP and SAT are national. They tried to get people on board with the Common Core, but it became the boogie man of the right and fell to politics.

Common Core is a list of general principles, not a standardized test.

+1 The problem was never Common Core. It’s adult who can’t accept change and it was folks learning just how far behind lots of people were/are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My only gripe with AP classes is the fact that the entire year of work really doesn’t matter if you do poorly on the test. There are a multitude of reasons why a kid might do poorly on the test, many of which are out of their control.

I prefer my daughter taking dual enrollment classes when she reaches 11th grade and can drive to MC. I know this sounds bad, but For now as a sophomore, she takes AP mainly to filter her classmates.

Except MC is truly crap. NOVA CC is good. The California ones are excellent some better than four year colleges. Montgomery County’s are truly terrible.

You have no idea of what you're talking about. MC is among the best in the nation and the MD CCs are the best overall in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/08/some-of-the-best-community-colleges-in-the-country-are-here-in-the-dc-area-study-finds/

NP - A high percentage of the students at MC require remediation to reach college level classes (meaning that they were among the weakest students in high school).

[Anonymous]

Absolutely no community college in the US is "excellent" or better than a 4 yr college, it is bridge only, which you either work hard at and take advantage of the connections to 4 yr colleges, or you flunk out, which is the most common trajectory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or "AP classes are one of America's 'greatest frauds' "? From 2012. An Aug 2012 Atlantic piece and on npr from Dec 2012.

What has MCPS' done if APs really are a scam? Add IB courses? Create magnets? But don't magnets also use IB or AP courses? Create an in-house curriculum that doesn't use AP or IB?

How are the Advanced Placement (AP) tests in MCPS? For those who had their mid take AP classes and the exams, did you think the AP classes are comparable to a 101 level class in college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or "AP classes are one of America's 'greatest frauds' "? From 2012. An Aug 2012 Atlantic piece and on npr from Dec 2012.

What has MCPS' done if APs really are a scam? Add IB courses? Create magnets? But don't magnets also use IB or AP courses? Create an in-house curriculum that doesn't use AP or IB?

How are the Advanced Placement (AP) tests in MCPS? For those who had their mid take AP classes and the exams, did you think the AP classes are comparable to a 101 level class in college?

No, not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or "AP classes are one of America's 'greatest frauds' "? From 2012. An Aug 2012 Atlantic piece and on npr from Dec 2012.

What has MCPS' done if APs really are a scam? Add IB courses? Create magnets? But don't magnets also use IB or AP courses? Create an in-house curriculum that doesn't use AP or IB?

How are the Advanced Placement (AP) tests in MCPS? For those who had their mid take AP classes and the exams, did you think the AP classes are comparable to a 101 level class in college?

No, not even close.

+1. But I don't think that's just an MCPS thing; I don't think APs generally are the equivalent of a 101 class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or "AP classes are one of America's 'greatest frauds' "? From 2012. An Aug 2012 Atlantic piece and on npr from Dec 2012.

What has MCPS' done if APs really are a scam? Add IB courses? Create magnets? But don't magnets also use IB or AP courses? Create an in-house curriculum that doesn't use AP or IB?

How are the Advanced Placement (AP) tests in MCPS? For those who had their mid take AP classes and the exams, did you think the AP classes are comparable to a 101 level class in college?

No, not even close.

+1. But I don't think that's just an MCPS thing; I don't think APs generally are the equivalent of a 101 class.

But some (many?) colleges give college credit or let student bypass 101 level of a course in which they scored a 4 or 5 on an AP test.