Whatever happened to: "APs are a scam"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College Board making $$$$$

I don't care if they are making money. If my daughter gets three more 5s on her APs this year, depending on the school she chooses she could start college as a second semester sophomore. And that would save me a LOT of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College Board making $$$$$

I don't care if they are making money. If my daughter gets three more 5s on her APs this year, depending on the school she chooses she could start college as a second semester sophomore. And that would save me a LOT of money.

This.

Also my kids got into UK universities (top 5) that they are now attending, primarily on the basis of the 5's they scored in their AP exams

They have value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My only gripe with AP classes is the fact that the entire year of work really doesn’t matter if you do poorly on the test. There are a multitude of reasons why a kid might do poorly on the test, many of which are out of their control.

I prefer my daughter taking dual enrollment classes when she reaches 11th grade and can drive to MC. I know this sounds bad, but For now as a sophomore, she takes AP mainly to filter her classmates.

Ugh, that means a student who really would take full advantage of what APs offer didn’t get a seat.

[Anonymous]

Not a scam, my kid graduated from a private university in 3 years (svaing us $90k+) instead of 4 due to numerous APs. I am all for APs and/or dual enrollment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My only gripe with AP classes is the fact that the entire year of work really doesn’t matter if you do poorly on the test. There are a multitude of reasons why a kid might do poorly on the test, many of which are out of their control.

I prefer my daughter taking dual enrollment classes when she reaches 11th grade and can drive to MC. I know this sounds bad, but For now as a sophomore, she takes AP mainly to filter her classmates.

Ugh, that means a student who really would take full advantage of what APs offer didn’t get a seat.

No, it doesn't mean that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My only gripe with AP classes is the fact that the entire year of work really doesn’t matter if you do poorly on the test. There are a multitude of reasons why a kid might do poorly on the test, many of which are out of their control.

I prefer my daughter taking dual enrollment classes when she reaches 11th grade and can drive to MC. I know this sounds bad, but For now as a sophomore, she takes AP mainly to filter her classmates.

??? She still gets grades for the entire year!. She just doesn’t get college credit without taking the exam. The same would be true if she took any other HS class.

[Anonymous]

I think the answer to your question is pretty simple, MCPS doesn't base educational decisions on a handful of op-eds and articles. Lots of people disagree that AP classes are a scam, even if one AP teacher wrote that they were a decade ago. Even if he is right in his particular arguments, there's a good reason for MCPS to offer courses that college and parents think are valuable.

That said, I think the author of those pieces (John Tierney) is right in at least one respect. AP courses are not genuinely college level courses. They are advanced high school courses. Tierney is more qualified to say that than I am (he's taught at both the high school and college levels), but I say that pretty confidently based on my own school experience.

A kid who goes to college as a sophomore based on AP scores saves money (and I know why they'd make that choice!), but at the cost of education because they've substituted an accelerated high school level course for learning at the college level.

Obviously, advanced courses for high schoolers have their own value, but calling them "college level" is misrepresentation of the reality of what's happening.

[Anonymous]

I went to school in the 80s and even then the AP classes were a good way of differentiating the classes that would actually have some solid content. Because there is an established curriculum with a test, you are at least assured that the curriculum will include some actual information. Is there a better world in which that information is included but also kids have an opportunity for more deep dives and less canned analysis? Yes, but that is private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the answer to your question is pretty simple, MCPS doesn't base educational decisions on a handful of op-eds and articles. Lots of people disagree that AP classes are a scam, even if one AP teacher wrote that they were a decade ago. Even if he is right in his particular arguments, there's a good reason for MCPS to offer courses that college and parents think are valuable.

That said, I think the author of those pieces (John Tierney) is right in at least one respect. AP courses are not genuinely college level courses. They are advanced high school courses. Tierney is more qualified to say that than I am (he's taught at both the high school and college levels), but I say that pretty confidently based on my own school experience.

A kid who goes to college as a sophomore based on AP scores saves money (and I know why they'd make that choice!), but at the cost of education because they've substituted an accelerated high school level course for learning at the college level.

Obviously, advanced courses for high schoolers have their own value, but calling them "college level" is misrepresentation of the reality of what's happening.

Mostly agree but it probably depends on the college, and on the course. An AP level language course might be decently similar to an basic language class in any college. And there are some colleges that are definitely operating more on the AP level of inquiry for classes.

IME, most kids don't use AP to shave a year off their schooling to get it down to 3. They do use it to shave a year off to get it from 5 to 4 in schools where it's hard to finish in 4. They also use it to get "sophomore" standing in order to be able to register for classes prior to freshman, or other benefits like that. At some schools, that's hugely important in being able to get the classes you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College Board making $$$$$

I don't care if they are making money. If my daughter gets three more 5s on her APs this year, depending on the school she chooses she could start college as a second semester sophomore. And that would save me a LOT of money.

Eh, community college is only $150/credit.

If you don't want your kid to go to an expensive college for 4 years, AP isn't a big factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My only gripe with AP classes is the fact that the entire year of work really doesn’t matter if you do poorly on the test. There are a multitude of reasons why a kid might do poorly on the test, many of which are out of their control.

I prefer my daughter taking dual enrollment classes when she reaches 11th grade and can drive to MC. I know this sounds bad, but For now as a sophomore, she takes AP mainly to filter her classmates.

Make it make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the absence of a functional Department of Education requiring a national exam at the end of high school, like France and Germany and the UK do, or national college entrance exams, like China and Korea and Japan do...

... we're stuck with private companies selling their own exams.

The AP exams, the SAT and the ACT are all legitimate, extensively-researched, and rigorous tests of knowledge. They're not scams. Colleges need to compare students to each other to evaluate their academic readiness, and GPAs can't serve that purpose since they're not calculated in the same way, using the same instructional quality or metrics, in different school systems.

It's too bad someone, the school or the end consumer, needs to pay for these private exams. But take it up with the government, and the voters.

Perfectly said. And with test optional, the discrepancy gets even worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or "AP classes are one of America's 'greatest frauds' "? From 2012. An Aug 2012 Atlantic piece and on npr from Dec 2012.

What has MCPS' done if APs really are a scam? Add IB courses? Create magnets? But don't magnets also use IB or AP courses? Create an in-house curriculum that doesn't use AP or IB?

Link your sources and bring an argument. MCPS has tried its hand at Curriculum (2.0). It was a disaster.

Didn't OP already state sources?: The Atlantic, NPR. Do you know how to search?

[Anonymous]

It sounds like most agree that APs are pretty much all there is to get an advanced level of a subject in MCPs (and probably elsewhere in the country) and that if student scores well on APs, they can possibly get credit in college and skip intro level courses. But aren't intro college courses taught by Professors who typically have a PhD/terminal degree or a Masters level degree. Do the teachers in MCPS teaching AP level courses also have that level of education and experience?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the absence of a functional Department of Education requiring a national exam at the end of high school, like France and Germany and the UK do, or national college entrance exams, like China and Korea and Japan do...

... we're stuck with private companies selling their own exams.

The AP exams, the SAT and the ACT are all legitimate, extensively-researched, and rigorous tests of knowledge. They're not scams. Colleges need to compare students to each other to evaluate their academic readiness, and GPAs can't serve that purpose since they're not calculated in the same way, using the same instructional quality or metrics, in different school systems.

It's too bad someone, the school or the end consumer, needs to pay for these private exams. But take it up with the government, and the voters.

MD has MCAP which are end of school year tests administered in grades 3-8th. Also MCAP Algebra, MCAP Biology, Government test, MCAP English/some sort of English exam after 10th grade English.

The MCAPs are what is really a scam -- the benchmarks are set so that all the kids will pass, because, of course, you want most kids to pass high school or you will screw their lifetime work opportunities.