Gender Ratios are so lop-sided? What is going on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure I’ll get slammed for this, but as a society we’ve abandoned our boys. They don’t have role models to look up to. We disparage men in general and white men in particular. We cater to those who claim victimhood.

Maybe give some thought to the qualities that your culture lauds as being exemplary, or successful. I’m thinking people like Elon Musk, Charlie Kirk, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, DOGE. How many of these wealthy, influential white men finished college? How many of them proudly discuss their college experiences as being foundational in their success? So, I wouldn’t slam you for your viewpoint, although I do encourage you to take a deeper look at who you are openly valuing as role models. What many of you actually value is DOGE: Very young white men — with limited education, lots of power, and extravagantly generous paychecks.

Lol: You do get that you’re claiming “ victimhood” for “white men in particular “ — right? Tell the truth, do you REALLY wish that your “boys” had the opportunities that get offered to people who are not white males? You wish that your kid was a target for ICE?

The only person on that list that I might even consider a worthy role model for a young man would have been Charlie Kirk, primarily for his way of speaking with people who disagreed with him. Do you consider the rest of them people our boys should admire or emulate? That to me is a sign of a sick culture.

Can you provide some examples of this? I have never seen him speak with those who disagreed with him in any way that I would find admirable.

This is a really sad video. “I think you exhibit sinful behavior and you shouldn’t tell people who you are, but WELCOME! Just don’t bring up being gay (Kirk brings up being Christian constantly) and we’ll get along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many complex factors contribute to this. To over simplify and scratch just the surface, we have...

1) An education system that rewards young kids who sit still, can follow orders, take standardized tests since age 4-7, do hours of homework since 5th grade. All of these favor girls who mature sooner, are under greater gender pressure to be compliant. This education hamster wheel is enough to burn any kids out and turn them off school by college age, esp for boys.

2) At the same time, the last two generations of kids (after Gen X who are left to roam wild by themselves) are over-programmed to an inch of their lives for schools, sports, music and other ECs that require unreal level of executive functioning. Girls again fare better here...they are recognized even if they don't score or win the big trophy but are hardworking, collaborative team player; boys in general face higher expectation to have to win gold and be the future MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL start since age 4. All these ES and unrealistic expectations also mean kids (both genders) have multiple opportunities each day to feel bad about themselves that make them crave emotional outlets.

3) This takes us to the addiction to social media, video games, online influencers...boys often dive a lot deeper into these escapes and addictions; some get so lost and disillusioned they can't climb back up from the deep hole. So many of these teen boys are not sleeping even 5-6 hours a night, let alone build the kind of school and EC portfolios and do SAT preps to get into these colleges OP is touring.

This was how education has worked essentially since the 1700s and it used to be much worse. Teachers would literally smack kids in the head who didn't sit still and follow orders...yet boys seemed to do just fine in the 1950s or all the previous eras that were much worse than today.

Let's stop blaming a disciplined classroom for anything...because again, it used to be much, much worse yet we never worried about boys back in the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many complex factors contribute to this. To over simplify and scratch just the surface, we have...

1) An education system that rewards young kids who sit still, can follow orders, take standardized tests since age 4-7, do hours of homework since 5th grade. All of these favor girls who mature sooner, are under greater gender pressure to be compliant. This education hamster wheel is enough to burn any kids out and turn them off school by college age, esp for boys.

2) At the same time, the last two generations of kids (after Gen X who are left to roam wild by themselves) are over-programmed to an inch of their lives for schools, sports, music and other ECs that require unreal level of executive functioning. Girls again fare better here...they are recognized even if they don't score or win the big trophy but are hardworking, collaborative team player; boys in general face higher expectation to have to win gold and be the future MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL start since age 4. All these ES and unrealistic expectations also mean kids (both genders) have multiple opportunities each day to feel bad about themselves that make them crave emotional outlets.

3) This takes us to the addiction to social media, video games, online influencers...boys often dive a lot deeper into these escapes and addictions; some get so lost and disillusioned they can't climb back up from the deep hole. So many of these teen boys are not sleeping even 5-6 hours a night, let alone build the kind of school and EC portfolios and do SAT preps to get into these colleges OP is touring.

#3 is huge. Online escapism is a real problem for boys today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many complex factors contribute to this. To over simplify and scratch just the surface, we have...

1) An education system that rewards young kids who sit still, can follow orders, take standardized tests since age 4-7, do hours of homework since 5th grade. All of these favor girls who mature sooner, are under greater gender pressure to be compliant. This education hamster wheel is enough to burn any kids out and turn them off school by college age, esp for boys.

2) At the same time, the last two generations of kids (after Gen X who are left to roam wild by themselves) are over-programmed to an inch of their lives for schools, sports, music and other ECs that require unreal level of executive functioning. Girls again fare better here...they are recognized even if they don't score or win the big trophy but are hardworking, collaborative team player; boys in general face higher expectation to have to win gold and be the future MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL start since age 4. All these ES and unrealistic expectations also mean kids (both genders) have multiple opportunities each day to feel bad about themselves that make them crave emotional outlets.

3) This takes us to the addiction to social media, video games, online influencers...boys often dive a lot deeper into these escapes and addictions; some get so lost and disillusioned they can't climb back up from the deep hole. So many of these teen boys are not sleeping even 5-6 hours a night, let alone build the kind of school and EC portfolios and do SAT preps to get into these colleges OP is touring.

Not really…at least not inherently. Men don’t all have ADHD and should be expected to have some regulation of themselves. The purpose of lower ED is to establish discipline that they can carry out with their lives. A real reality of most corporate jobs is you need to sit on your bum and work. Boys also need to learn to listen and engage, and not just play. These aren’t gendered problems. They’re cultural ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure I’ll get slammed for this, but as a society we’ve abandoned our boys. They don’t have role models to look up to. We disparage men in general and white men in particular. We cater to those who claim victimhood.

Maybe give some thought to the qualities that your culture lauds as being exemplary, or successful. I’m thinking people like Elon Musk, Charlie Kirk, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, DOGE. How many of these wealthy, influential white men finished college? How many of them proudly discuss their college experiences as being foundational in their success? So, I wouldn’t slam you for your viewpoint, although I do encourage you to take a deeper look at who you are openly valuing as role models. What many of you actually value is DOGE: Very young white men — with limited education, lots of power, and extravagantly generous paychecks.

Lol: You do get that you’re claiming “ victimhood” for “white men in particular “ — right? Tell the truth, do you REALLY wish that your “boys” had the opportunities that get offered to people who are not white males? You wish that your kid was a target for ICE?

The only person on that list that I might even consider a worthy role model for a young man would have been Charlie Kirk, primarily for his way of speaking with people who disagreed with him. Do you consider the rest of them people our boys should admire or emulate? That to me is a sign of a sick culture.

Can you provide some examples of this? I have never seen him speak with those who disagreed with him in any way that I would find admirable.

This is a really sad video. “I think you exhibit sinful behavior and you shouldn’t tell people who you are, but WELCOME! Just don’t bring up being gay (Kirk brings up being Christian constantly) and we’ll get along.

That’s not what he said. He said to not lead with your sexuality. Who you sleep with should be the least interesting thing about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many complex factors contribute to this. To over simplify and scratch just the surface, we have...

1) An education system that rewards young kids who sit still, can follow orders, take standardized tests since age 4-7, do hours of homework since 5th grade. All of these favor girls who mature sooner, are under greater gender pressure to be compliant. This education hamster wheel is enough to burn any kids out and turn them off school by college age, esp for boys.

2) At the same time, the last two generations of kids (after Gen X who are left to roam wild by themselves) are over-programmed to an inch of their lives for schools, sports, music and other ECs that require unreal level of executive functioning. Girls again fare better here...they are recognized even if they don't score or win the big trophy but are hardworking, collaborative team player; boys in general face higher expectation to have to win gold and be the future MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL start since age 4. All these ES and unrealistic expectations also mean kids (both genders) have multiple opportunities each day to feel bad about themselves that make them crave emotional outlets.

3) This takes us to the addiction to social media, video games, online influencers...boys often dive a lot deeper into these escapes and addictions; some get so lost and disillusioned they can't climb back up from the deep hole. So many of these teen boys are not sleeping even 5-6 hours a night, let alone build the kind of school and EC portfolios and do SAT preps to get into these colleges OP is touring.

This was how education has worked essentially since the 1700s and it used to be much worse. Teachers would literally smack kids in the head who didn't sit still and follow orders...yet boys seemed to do just fine in the 1950s or all the previous eras that were much worse than today.

Let's stop blaming a disciplined classroom for anything...because again, it used to be much, much worse yet we never worried about boys back in the day.

It's not true that education is the way it always has been. In another thread that I cannot remember now, someone mentioned it is not just the sitting and learning part that is harder for boy, but the way things are taught now, with a lot more group projects and collaboration. This person said her boy did much better in a Catholic school that just had direct instruction and clear expectations, even though there was a lot of sitting.

But also recesses are shorter now, and there are way less male teachers. Those are also huge factors.

[Anonymous]

People turning this into yet another opportunity to have a political debate and speak up for their “team” is so frustrating.

Do you agree it’s a problem males aren’t going to college? If no, close the thread.

If yes, have a thoughtful dialogue about what is going on culturally and sociologically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People turning this into yet another opportunity to have a political debate and speak up for their “team” is so frustrating.

Do you agree it’s a problem males aren’t going to college? If no, close the thread.

If yes, have a thoughtful dialogue about what is going on culturally and sociologically.

It’s not inherently a problem. Men don’t have to go to college and could go into trades. The issue is men aren’t doing either. This problem has many problems that we can talk about, but people acting like sitting still in a classroom is the reason is just….weird sexist rhetoric that the schools are too “feminized.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many complex factors contribute to this. To over simplify and scratch just the surface, we have...

1) An education system that rewards young kids who sit still, can follow orders, take standardized tests since age 4-7, do hours of homework since 5th grade. All of these favor girls who mature sooner, are under greater gender pressure to be compliant. This education hamster wheel is enough to burn any kids out and turn them off school by college age, esp for boys.

2) At the same time, the last two generations of kids (after Gen X who are left to roam wild by themselves) are over-programmed to an inch of their lives for schools, sports, music and other ECs that require unreal level of executive functioning. Girls again fare better here...they are recognized even if they don't score or win the big trophy but are hardworking, collaborative team player; boys in general face higher expectation to have to win gold and be the future MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL start since age 4. All these ES and unrealistic expectations also mean kids (both genders) have multiple opportunities each day to feel bad about themselves that make them crave emotional outlets.

3) This takes us to the addiction to social media, video games, online influencers...boys often dive a lot deeper into these escapes and addictions; some get so lost and disillusioned they can't climb back up from the deep hole. So many of these teen boys are not sleeping even 5-6 hours a night, let alone build the kind of school and EC portfolios and do SAT preps to get into these colleges OP is touring.

This was how education has worked essentially since the 1700s and it used to be much worse. Teachers would literally smack kids in the head who didn't sit still and follow orders...yet boys seemed to do just fine in the 1950s or all the previous eras that were much worse than today.

Let's stop blaming a disciplined classroom for anything...because again, it used to be much, much worse yet we never worried about boys back in the day.

It's not true that education is the way it always has been. In another thread that I cannot remember now, someone mentioned it is not just the sitting and learning part that is harder for boy, but the way things are taught now, with a lot more group projects and collaboration. This person said her boy did much better in a Catholic school that just had direct instruction and clear expectations, even though there was a lot of sitting.

But also recesses are shorter now, and there are way less male teachers. Those are also huge factors.

This has been true since the 18th century. This is not the problem.

[Anonymous]

I am a mother of boys in a STEM career.

My eldest, for a few years, was convinced by YouTube channels that he could live like a king in India (or another LCOL country) day trading. College is for suckers, etc. Who needs education when you can just follow an attractive, well dressed random dude’s advice?! It has been *hard* to make him realize this is not a good Plan A (and he lost a lot of money too). He’s got 2 parents but loads on social media & his friends repeating this message.

So, now that he’s gotten on board with education (even just an AA for a trade), I started to look around for opportunities in his interests: engineering/building things & business. Except 80% of the opportunities near us are solely for girls: STEM events, entrepreneurship camps, etc. Now, I don’t begrudge these opportunities for girls bc I remember how awkward it can be to be the only girl in the room & a bit of a sisterhood can be helpful to encourage girls into these careers. But, but having so many girls-only events, I’ve found there’s little to inspire my son for higher ed.

Now, I’m under no illusion that any of this is a “hardship” but I do think that some boys (maybe many?) aren’t being exposed to the benefits of higher ed while being repeated exposed to ideas that you need little after high school. I do not think girls are getting these messages in the same volume.

I do think there’s a loneliness epidemic with boys & men. Remember when so many video games were multiplayer in one location? Color me surprised when I suggested my son invite friends over to play only to be told for multiplayer, they needed to be on their own devices. Just an example, along with more women choosing to be single, etc.

Nothing good ever comes from a large population isolated, undereducated, lonely men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many complex factors contribute to this. To over simplify and scratch just the surface, we have...

1) An education system that rewards young kids who sit still, can follow orders, take standardized tests since age 4-7, do hours of homework since 5th grade. All of these favor girls who mature sooner, are under greater gender pressure to be compliant. This education hamster wheel is enough to burn any kids out and turn them off school by college age, esp for boys.

2) At the same time, the last two generations of kids (after Gen X who are left to roam wild by themselves) are over-programmed to an inch of their lives for schools, sports, music and other ECs that require unreal level of executive functioning. Girls again fare better here...they are recognized even if they don't score or win the big trophy but are hardworking, collaborative team player; boys in general face higher expectation to have to win gold and be the future MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL start since age 4. All these ES and unrealistic expectations also mean kids (both genders) have multiple opportunities each day to feel bad about themselves that make them crave emotional outlets.

3) This takes us to the addiction to social media, video games, online influencers...boys often dive a lot deeper into these escapes and addictions; some get so lost and disillusioned they can't climb back up from the deep hole. So many of these teen boys are not sleeping even 5-6 hours a night, let alone build the kind of school and EC portfolios and do SAT preps to get into these colleges OP is touring.

This was how education has worked essentially since the 1700s and it used to be much worse. Teachers would literally smack kids in the head who didn't sit still and follow orders...yet boys seemed to do just fine in the 1950s or all the previous eras that were much worse than today.

Let's stop blaming a disciplined classroom for anything...because again, it used to be much, much worse yet we never worried about boys back in the day.

It's not true that education is the way it always has been. In another thread that I cannot remember now, someone mentioned it is not just the sitting and learning part that is harder for boy, but the way things are taught now, with a lot more group projects and collaboration. This person said her boy did much better in a Catholic school that just had direct instruction and clear expectations, even though there was a lot of sitting.

But also recesses are shorter now, and there are way less male teachers. Those are also huge factors.

Guess what...the Catholic school definitely expects the boys to sit still and follow orders and do hours of homework. So which is it...boys are falling behind because they have to sit still, follow orders and do homework...or boys are great because they have to sit still, follow orders and do homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People turning this into yet another opportunity to have a political debate and speak up for their “team” is so frustrating.

Do you agree it’s a problem males aren’t going to college? If no, close the thread.

If yes, have a thoughtful dialogue about what is going on culturally and sociologically.

It’s not inherently a problem. Men don’t have to go to college and could go into trades. The issue is men aren’t doing either. This problem has many problems that we can talk about, but people acting like sitting still in a classroom is the reason is just….weird sexist rhetoric that the schools are too “feminized.”

Great not a problem. Your college educated daughter can marry a plumber. Move on to another thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many complex factors contribute to this. To over simplify and scratch just the surface, we have...

1) An education system that rewards young kids who sit still, can follow orders, take standardized tests since age 4-7, do hours of homework since 5th grade. All of these favor girls who mature sooner, are under greater gender pressure to be compliant. This education hamster wheel is enough to burn any kids out and turn them off school by college age, esp for boys.

2) At the same time, the last two generations of kids (after Gen X who are left to roam wild by themselves) are over-programmed to an inch of their lives for schools, sports, music and other ECs that require unreal level of executive functioning. Girls again fare better here...they are recognized even if they don't score or win the big trophy but are hardworking, collaborative team player; boys in general face higher expectation to have to win gold and be the future MLB/NBA/NHL/NFL start since age 4. All these ES and unrealistic expectations also mean kids (both genders) have multiple opportunities each day to feel bad about themselves that make them crave emotional outlets.

3) This takes us to the addiction to social media, video games, online influencers...boys often dive a lot deeper into these escapes and addictions; some get so lost and disillusioned they can't climb back up from the deep hole. So many of these teen boys are not sleeping even 5-6 hours a night, let alone build the kind of school and EC portfolios and do SAT preps to get into these colleges OP is touring.

This was how education has worked essentially since the 1700s and it used to be much worse. Teachers would literally smack kids in the head who didn't sit still and follow orders...yet boys seemed to do just fine in the 1950s or all the previous eras that were much worse than today.

Let's stop blaming a disciplined classroom for anything...because again, it used to be much, much worse yet we never worried about boys back in the day.

It's not true that education is the way it always has been. In another thread that I cannot remember now, someone mentioned it is not just the sitting and learning part that is harder for boy, but the way things are taught now, with a lot more group projects and collaboration. This person said her boy did much better in a Catholic school that just had direct instruction and clear expectations, even though there was a lot of sitting.

But also recesses are shorter now, and there are way less male teachers. Those are also huge factors.

This has been true since the 18th century. This is not the problem.

Um, it has gone down recently and continues to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She should apply to Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology, which has 75% men.

But how many of those are neurotypical men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People turning this into yet another opportunity to have a political debate and speak up for their “team” is so frustrating.

Do you agree it’s a problem males aren’t going to college? If no, close the thread.

If yes, have a thoughtful dialogue about what is going on culturally and sociologically.

It’s not inherently a problem. Men don’t have to go to college and could go into trades. The issue is men aren’t doing either. This problem has many problems that we can talk about, but people acting like sitting still in a classroom is the reason is just….weird sexist rhetoric that the schools are too “feminized.”

Great not a problem. Your college educated daughter can marry a plumber. Move on to another thread.

If she wants to, sure? I’m not deeply classist and don’t think a college education is the end-all, be-all of knowledge. Plumbing is a skilled trade. I can’t do it. It’s ridiculous to insist that if men are making a good living in the trades, they’re lesser than someone with a college degree.