TJ entrance test answers were never for sale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wealthy parents of all races were gaming the system. It wasn't about race.

It was about expanding access to TJ beyond a handful of wealthy feeder schools.

It's was primarily about race. The FCPS board was concerned with the racial representation at TJ. That's what we heard during the headings, that's what we heard during the board meetings, that is what they commissioned reports to determine. Race was the primary driver.

There were a bunch of reasons that they changed the admissions, race being one, specifically increasing the number of Black students. Also increasing interest and applications which had been declining, especially in schools that did not traditionally send students to TJ throughout the county and region. And addressing cheating both in admissions and by admitted students all 4 years. Etc.

It was primarily about race. If was advertised to be about blank students, it ended up helping mostly white students. Funny how that works out.

And once again prepping is not cheating on a standardized test any more than practicing your jump shot is cheating at basketball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wealthy parents of all races were gaming the system. It wasn't about race.

It was about expanding access to TJ beyond a handful of wealthy feeder schools.

It's was primarily about race. The FCPS board was concerned with the racial representation at TJ. That's what we heard during the headings, that's what we heard during the board meetings, that is what they commissioned reports to determine. Race was the primary driver.

It might about the race, because over decade long ago, while TJ prep test was not a thing, asian representation was never at over 70%, it might go hand in hand?

three increase in Asians at TJ want Aiden, it was gradual over time as the Asian population increased. It accelerated a bit when the area started importing more h1b tech people but it wasn't a surge in prepping. Prepping was always here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a troll here on DCUM who loves to perpetuate this lie. She repeats it to support the false narrative that TJ only admitted students from exceptionally high SES families, who could afford to (as she put it) “buy the test answers.”

Her claim is not true. It was never true.

When challenged on this falsehood, she often asserts test-preparation courses equal “buying test answers.” But, by her twisted logic, anyone’s child who does an SAT prep session or even buys a test-prep book from Amazon, has somehow “purchased the answers to the upcoming SAT.”

Call this troll out when you encounter her lies here. I’ve tried reporting her, but she’s apparently still around. I’m uncertain why she harbors such hatred towards TJ or why she insists on repeatedly lying about TJ admissions.

You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to understand the terms “buying test answer” that often mentioned here. I even believe that you understand what it actually means and you just play dumb.
It is a test prep that has TJ test bank (means test with similar pattern on questions). You pay them.. they will teach and train and repeat and train and repeat until your kid very familiar with that type of questions.
And no, it is not the same with $20 amazon book.
(I can’t believe that I have to answer this).

Is it same as spending thousands on learning basketball starting from elementary grades just to get into public school HS team?

Most of the families doing that are hoping to end up at a private school with a strong basketball program to play in college on scholarship. That said, the public schools don't promote any sport. PE is the only physical class that kids have and the school is not requiring that kids take PE every day. Nor do the schools offer Gen Ed PE, Advanced PE, and the like. Sports are an extra curricular.

STEM classes, math and science, are required classes. It is not unreasonable to make TJ available to all strong STEM students across the county. The 1.5% distribution is meant to open TJ to all the MS and I don't think it is unreasonable. Some of these changes were in response to a threatened lawsuit by NAACP over the lack of representation of Black students at TJ. While the percentage of Asian students dropped with the 1.5% redistribution, Asian students are still the majority by far.

The dropping of the Quant test can easily be tied to the test banks, which plenty of TJ students have discussed. They did provide a leg up to students whose parents were willing to pay to attend the classes at the schools with the test banks. And those classes were not inexpensive. They were more expensive then similar AoPS or RSM classes that are offered. People knew what they were paying for and were willing to do so to improve the chances that their kid was accepted at TJ.

Do I think that the TJ requirements today could be adjusted? Yes. I think that math grades should include an additional weight based on the highest level math at a given school. Students at schools that offer Algebra 2 should have a weight applied to their scores, maybe a point, and students who took Geometry at that school .5 points. Not every school is able to offer Algebra 2, so students at those schools would see a 1 weighted to the geometry kids. Heck, .5 points if you want to use a universal weight. That .5 would help the geometry students move up in the 1.5% ranking at their school be be more evenly weighed against the rest of the county. The GPA to apply should be a 3.75 and students should have taken all honors/AAP classes. You could include the SOL scores for the 7th grade classes.

The switch to quant q from the previous transparent test was an effort to increase racial diversity and it backfired. So they hiave up on testing altogether.

I don't care what objective measure you use but the tails have to be thin enough to select the top 1%.

If you use SOLs, then people will prep the SOLs. Is there even a time limit on the SOLs?

The best alternative is the SHSAT that they use for Stuyvesant'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wealthy parents of all races were gaming the system. It wasn't about race.

It was about expanding access to TJ beyond a handful of wealthy feeder schools.

It's was primarily about race. The FCPS board was concerned with the racial representation at TJ. That's what we heard during the headings, that's what we heard during the board meetings, that is what they commissioned reports to determine. Race was the primary driver.

It might about the race, because over decade long ago, while TJ prep test was not a thing, asian representation was never at over 70%, it might go hand in hand?

the increase in Asians at TJ wasn't sudden, it was gradual over time as the Asian population increased. It accelerated a bit when the area started importing more h1b tech people but it wasn't a surge in prepping. Prepping was always here.

Fixed typo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have Trump because Americans are dumb AF and believed the RWNJ propaganda.

Like all of the BS around education.

Either the majority of voters are RWNJ or you lost a lot of moderate voters with your left wing orthodoxy. Pretending that the change in the TJ test wasn't about race is so blatantly dishonest that you will lose some voters forever.

I get that math is hard for MAGA but Trump didn’t win a majority.

The admissions process was changed for a variety of reasons.

Trump won, that's what matters and people like you handed him the voters he needed.

The change to the admissions process was primarily about race. Every hearing, every board meeting, every report are primarily focused on racial diversity.

Again, you should sue.. you will get what you want and bonus you will rich!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have Trump because Americans are dumb AF and believed the RWNJ propaganda.

Like all of the BS around education.

Either the majority of voters are RWNJ or you lost a lot of moderate voters with your left wing orthodoxy. Pretending that the change in the TJ test wasn't about race is so blatantly dishonest that you will lose some voters forever.

I get that math is hard for MAGA but Trump didn’t win a majority.

The admissions process was changed for a variety of reasons.

Trump won, that's what matters and people like you handed him the voters he needed.

The change to the admissions process was primarily about race. Every hearing, every board meeting, every report are primarily focused on racial diversity.

Again, you should sue.. you will get what you want and bonus you will rich!

The courts have already settled it. It's not discrimination.
https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/221280.P.pdf
Pg 7
“we are satisfied that the challenged admissions policy does not disparately impact Asian American students”

And the SCOTUS left the ruling in place:
https://virginiamercury.com/2024/02/20/supreme-court-wont-hear-thomas-jefferson-admissions-case/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a troll here on DCUM who loves to perpetuate this lie. She repeats it to support the false narrative that TJ only admitted students from exceptionally high SES families, who could afford to (as she put it) “buy the test answers.”

Her claim is not true. It was never true.

When challenged on this falsehood, she often asserts test-preparation courses equal “buying test answers.” But, by her twisted logic, anyone’s child who does an SAT prep session or even buys a test-prep book from Amazon, has somehow “purchased the answers to the upcoming SAT.”

Call this troll out when you encounter her lies here. I’ve tried reporting her, but she’s apparently still around. I’m uncertain why she harbors such hatred towards TJ or why she insists on repeatedly lying about TJ admissions.

You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to understand the terms “buying test answer” that often mentioned here. I even believe that you understand what it actually means and you just play dumb.
It is a test prep that has TJ test bank (means test with similar pattern on questions). You pay them.. they will teach and train and repeat and train and repeat until your kid very familiar with that type of questions.
And no, it is not the same with $20 amazon book.
(I can’t believe that I have to answer this).

Is it same as spending thousands on learning basketball starting from elementary grades just to get into public school HS team?

Most of the families doing that are hoping to end up at a private school with a strong basketball program to play in college on scholarship. That said, the public schools don't promote any sport. PE is the only physical class that kids have and the school is not requiring that kids take PE every day. Nor do the schools offer Gen Ed PE, Advanced PE, and the like. Sports are an extra curricular.

STEM classes, math and science, are required classes. It is not unreasonable to make TJ available to all strong STEM students across the county. The 1.5% distribution is meant to open TJ to all the MS and I don't think it is unreasonable. Some of these changes were in response to a threatened lawsuit by NAACP over the lack of representation of Black students at TJ. While the percentage of Asian students dropped with the 1.5% redistribution, Asian students are still the majority by far.

The dropping of the Quant test can easily be tied to the test banks, which plenty of TJ students have discussed. They did provide a leg up to students whose parents were willing to pay to attend the classes at the schools with the test banks. And those classes were not inexpensive. They were more expensive then similar AoPS or RSM classes that are offered. People knew what they were paying for and were willing to do so to improve the chances that their kid was accepted at TJ.

Do I think that the TJ requirements today could be adjusted? Yes. I think that math grades should include an additional weight based on the highest level math at a given school. Students at schools that offer Algebra 2 should have a weight applied to their scores, maybe a point, and students who took Geometry at that school .5 points. Not every school is able to offer Algebra 2, so students at those schools would see a 1 weighted to the geometry kids. Heck, .5 points if you want to use a universal weight. That .5 would help the geometry students move up in the 1.5% ranking at their school be be more evenly weighed against the rest of the county. The GPA to apply should be a 3.75 and students should have taken all honors/AAP classes. You could include the SOL scores for the 7th grade classes.

The switch to quant q from the previous transparent test was an effort to increase racial diversity and it backfired. So they hiave up on testing altogether.

I don't care what objective measure you use but the tails have to be thin enough to select the top 1%.

If you use SOLs, then people will prep the SOLs. Is there even a time limit on the SOLs?

The best alternative is the SHSAT that they use for Stuyvesant'.

The SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce the unfair advantage of prepping.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wealthy parents of all races were gaming the system. It wasn't about race.

It was about expanding access to TJ beyond a handful of wealthy feeder schools.

It's was primarily about race. The FCPS board was concerned with the racial representation at TJ. That's what we heard during the headings, that's what we heard during the board meetings, that is what they commissioned reports to determine. Race was the primary driver.

It might about the race, because over decade long ago, while TJ prep test was not a thing, asian representation was never at over 70%, it might go hand in hand?

three increase in Asians at TJ want Aiden, it was gradual over time as the Asian population increased. It accelerated a bit when the area started importing more h1b tech people but it wasn't a surge in prepping. Prepping was always here.

+1

From 2006...

Interview with former TJ principal in 2006:
https://www.washingtonian.com/2006/09/01/thomas-jefferson-high-school-interview-with-principal-elizabeth-lodal/
"Unfortunately, T.J. has helped spawn a huge test-preparation industry in this region. Look in the newspapers—you’ll find test prep for both the SATs and for T.J.

Some parents start this T.J. prep early. Some local churches have Sunday-school classes focused on getting into T.J. that start in kindergarten and go through elementary school. Wealthy parents can spend $600 a pop to learn how to get in here.

Isn’t there something wrong with that?
Yes.

Why don’t you constantly change the exam so no one can game it?
The admissions office tries to do that."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a troll here on DCUM who loves to perpetuate this lie. She repeats it to support the false narrative that TJ only admitted students from exceptionally high SES families, who could afford to (as she put it) “buy the test answers.”

Her claim is not true. It was never true.

When challenged on this falsehood, she often asserts test-preparation courses equal “buying test answers.” But, by her twisted logic, anyone’s child who does an SAT prep session or even buys a test-prep book from Amazon, has somehow “purchased the answers to the upcoming SAT.”

Call this troll out when you encounter her lies here. I’ve tried reporting her, but she’s apparently still around. I’m uncertain why she harbors such hatred towards TJ or why she insists on repeatedly lying about TJ admissions.

You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to understand the terms “buying test answer” that often mentioned here. I even believe that you understand what it actually means and you just play dumb.
It is a test prep that has TJ test bank (means test with similar pattern on questions). You pay them.. they will teach and train and repeat and train and repeat until your kid very familiar with that type of questions.
And no, it is not the same with $20 amazon book.
(I can’t believe that I have to answer this).

+1

OP is the troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have Trump because Americans are dumb AF and believed the RWNJ propaganda.

Like all of the BS around education.

Either the majority of voters are RWNJ or you lost a lot of moderate voters with your left wing orthodoxy. Pretending that the change in the TJ test wasn't about race is so blatantly dishonest that you will lose some voters forever.

I get that math is hard for MAGA but Trump didn’t win a majority.

The admissions process was changed for a variety of reasons.

Trump won 49.8% of the vote. Calm down. You can stop foaming at the mouth.

Which isn't a majority.

Maybe if you stop spreading RWNJ propaganda, you'll have more time to work on your math skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have Trump because Americans are dumb AF and believed the RWNJ propaganda.

Like all of the BS around education.

Either the majority of voters are RWNJ or you lost a lot of moderate voters with your left wing orthodoxy. Pretending that the change in the TJ test wasn't about race is so blatantly dishonest that you will lose some voters forever.

I get that math is hard for MAGA but Trump didn’t win a majority.

The admissions process was changed for a variety of reasons.

Trump won 49.8% of the vote. Calm down. You can stop foaming at the mouth.

Which isn't a majority.

Maybe if you stop spreading RWNJ propaganda, you'll have more time to work on your math skills.

rewrite:
Nice try, but most here are moderate democrats who got tired of woke propaganda, attack on merit, DEI nonsense, and so voted for Trump.

If it walks like a duck...and votes like a duck...

The majority of voters didn't vote for your orange shtstain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have Trump because Americans are dumb AF and believed the RWNJ propaganda.

Like all of the BS around education.

Either the majority of voters are RWNJ or you lost a lot of moderate voters with your left wing orthodoxy. Pretending that the change in the TJ test wasn't about race is so blatantly dishonest that you will lose some voters forever.

I get that math is hard for MAGA but Trump didn’t win a majority.

The admissions process was changed for a variety of reasons.

Trump won 49.8% of the vote. Calm down. You can stop foaming at the mouth.

Which isn't a majority.

Maybe if you stop spreading RWNJ propaganda, you'll have more time to work on your math skills.

rewrite:
Nice try, but most here are moderate democrats who got tired of woke propaganda, attack on merit, DEI nonsense, and so voted for Trump.

If it walks like a duck...and votes like a duck...

The majority of voters didn't vote for your orange shtstain.

75,019,230 votes (48.3%) Harris
77,303,568 votes (49.8%) Trump

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have Trump because Americans are dumb AF and believed the RWNJ propaganda.

Like all of the BS around education.

Either the majority of voters are RWNJ or you lost a lot of moderate voters with your left wing orthodoxy. Pretending that the change in the TJ test wasn't about race is so blatantly dishonest that you will lose some voters forever.

I get that math is hard for MAGA but Trump didn’t win a majority.

The admissions process was changed for a variety of reasons.

Trump won 49.8% of the vote. Calm down. You can stop foaming at the mouth.

Which isn't a majority.

Maybe if you stop spreading RWNJ propaganda, you'll have more time to work on your math skills.

rewrite:
Nice try, but most here are moderate democrats who got tired of woke propaganda, attack on merit, DEI nonsense, and so voted for Trump.

If it walks like a duck...and votes like a duck...

The majority of voters didn't vote for your orange shtstain.

75,019,230 votes (48.3%) Harris
77,303,568 votes (49.8%) Trump

Proving my point, thanks.

Sorry you don’t understand math.

[Anonymous]

You could pay to take a class where you were given questions on the test. This amounts to test buying. It favored those who could afford elite prep and skewed the selection process. I was glad the board of education finally leveled the playing field so all county residents have a fair shot instead of just those from wealthy feeders who can afford to buy the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have Trump because Americans are dumb AF and believed the RWNJ propaganda.

Like all of the BS around education.

Either the majority of voters are RWNJ or you lost a lot of moderate voters with your left wing orthodoxy. Pretending that the change in the TJ test wasn't about race is so blatantly dishonest that you will lose some voters forever.

I get that math is hard for MAGA but Trump didn’t win a majority.

The admissions process was changed for a variety of reasons.

Trump won 49.8% of the vote. Calm down. You can stop foaming at the mouth.

Which isn't a majority.

Maybe if you stop spreading RWNJ propaganda, you'll have more time to work on your math skills.

rewrite:
Nice try, but most here are moderate democrats who got tired of woke propaganda, attack on merit, DEI nonsense, and so voted for Trump.

If it walks like a duck...and votes like a duck...

The majority of voters didn't vote for your orange shtstain.

75,019,230 votes (48.3%) Harris
77,303,568 votes (49.8%) Trump

Proving my point, thanks.

Sorry you don’t understand math.

Since a majority would be >50%, it's true.