TJ entrance test answers were never for sale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. Also: the old system required parents to pay $100 to even take the exam. $100 is a lot of money for people to pay for an application to a high school they probably won’t get into. That’s where a lot of people will say: you were able to buy the test- because you were able to not just buy sample test questions or enrich, the test itself was expensive to begin with.

When the new system rolled out, they were going to make it a lottery, which I completely opposed and argued against on this forum. After they modified it, I have been advocating for them to keep it because it isn’t based on race. It is based on geography and merit. Raising the GPA is a good idea but the current system now is still way better than the old system. The same number of Asians are going into the school. And now we have more kids going to Princeton than in years before.

I would also like to mention that the new Principal is also Asian and seems to truly care about making sure the kids aren’t burning out and having the parents trust the process- while raising the schools academic index. So it seems to me that a lot of the parents who are complaining about the new system are of the same vein as our AG Miyares or just haven’t been really looking at the data.

Removing the $100 fee was a great idea, everything else was stupid and racist.

The first class under the new system saw a 120 point drop in PSAT score. The drop in student quality is not imagined. The reason for the change was racially driven

PP here. Also Asian.

The PSAT is given sophomore year and for the first class under the new system, it was given in Fall of 2022. That was shortly after the pandemic, and also after the first class also had their first full year back in school as freshman as TJ.

To blame the new admissions system on the drop in national merit semifinalists is not looking at history correctly. You and I will both agree that changing the TJ admissions during the pandemic was one of the shadiest things the SB could ever do. But blaming the drop on just the admissions and not looking at how the whole county handled school closures because of Trump and Covid is absurd. Because remember- schools closed under Trump. The world shut down under Trump. So don’t assume that it’s just the admissions. Lots of those kids also lost family members and dealt with the trauma of Covid and the online abuse of people like you, claiming they aren’t worthy enough.

But also, if you had kids in school at all… you would know that kids were not adjusting well to in person education. You would remember the increase of cyberbullying and how phones were uncontrolled. It was only recently (like this year) FCPS banned phones in the classroom. That first year back was chaotic. The second year wasn’t much better. It was last year that teachers said kids were getting better. 2023-2024.

If you think gifted kids were not on their phones or didn’t have issues with digital distraction as a result of school closure- well, you either don’t have kids or your logic is deeply flawed. It also suggests that your memory of what happened during those years is so hyper fixated on the admissions that you forget- The GOP effed up the country. And that any war cry they pick up to get the Asian vote is because you have forgotten the deeply effed up things that also affected test scores.

Btw- that first new admissions class is sending a grad to Oxford. And five to Princeton. Usually we only send 2 to Princeton and none to Oxford. And the Oxford student is Asian. Some of the parents are upset that their kids aren’t going where they assumed TJ would just send them to, but they are all thrilled their kids aren’t going to a good college and a bunch of them got full rides.

But hey….. keep screaming that GOP race baiting drivel here.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. Also: the old system required parents to pay $100 to even take the exam. $100 is a lot of money for people to pay for an application to a high school they probably won’t get into. That’s where a lot of people will say: you were able to buy the test- because you were able to not just buy sample test questions or enrich, the test itself was expensive to begin with.

When the new system rolled out, they were going to make it a lottery, which I completely opposed and argued against on this forum. After they modified it, I have been advocating for them to keep it because it isn’t based on race. It is based on geography and merit. Raising the GPA is a good idea but the current system now is still way better than the old system. The same number of Asians are going into the school. And now we have more kids going to Princeton than in years before.

I would also like to mention that the new Principal is also Asian and seems to truly care about making sure the kids aren’t burning out and having the parents trust the process- while raising the schools academic index. So it seems to me that a lot of the parents who are complaining about the new system are of the same vein as our AG Miyares or just haven’t been really looking at the data.

Removing the $100 fee was a great idea, everything else was stupid and racist.

The first class under the new system saw a 120 point drop in PSAT score. The drop in student quality is not imagined. The reason for the change was racially driven

PP here. Also Asian.

The PSAT is given sophomore year and for the first class under the new system, it was given in Fall of 2022. That was shortly after the pandemic, and also after the first class also had their first full year back in school as freshman as TJ.

To blame the new admissions system on the drop in national merit semifinalists is not looking at history correctly. You and I will both agree that changing the TJ admissions during the pandemic was one of the shadiest things the SB could ever do. But blaming the drop on just the admissions and not looking at how the whole county handled school closures because of Trump and Covid is absurd. Because remember- schools closed under Trump. The world shut down under Trump. So don’t assume that it’s just the admissions. Lots of those kids also lost family members and dealt with the trauma of Covid and the online abuse of people like you, claiming they aren’t worthy enough.

Then why was TJ the ONLY school to see this sort of drop? None of the other FCPS schools saw this sort of drop. None of the science schools in NYC saw this sort of drop.

Was TJ the only school affected by COVID? And the PSAT NMSF are relative to all the other kids taking the test as 11th graders that year.

But also, if you had kids in school at all… you would know that kids were not adjusting well to in person education. You would remember the increase of cyberbullying and how phones were uncontrolled. It was only recently (like this year) FCPS banned phones in the classroom. That first year back was chaotic. The second year wasn’t much better. It was last year that teachers said kids were getting better. 2023-2024.

And TJ was not unique in this. EVERY school had similar issues.

If you think gifted kids were not on their phones or didn’t have issues with digital distraction as a result of school closure- well, you either don’t have kids or your logic is deeply flawed. It also suggests that your memory of what happened during those years is so hyper fixated on the admissions that you forget- The GOP effed up the country. And that any war cry they pick up to get the Asian vote is because you have forgotten the deeply effed up things that also affected test scores.

And in your unflawed logic, why didn't this affect anyone outside of TJ like this?

Btw- that first new admissions class is sending a grad to Oxford. And five to Princeton. Usually we only send 2 to Princeton and none to Oxford. And the Oxford student is Asian. Some of the parents are upset that their kids aren’t going where they assumed TJ would just send them to, but they are all thrilled their kids aren’t going to a good college and a bunch of them got full rides.

But hey….. keep screaming that GOP race baiting drivel here.

Dismissing legitimate concerns with really bad logic and calling their concerns GOP drivel is the reason why trump won. People like you are why trump won.

I just checked the school quality reports- and lots of FCPS high schools had issues the 2022-2023 year with their students- in particular their minority students.

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

You made a generalization. But I checked- TJ was not the only school with a dip.

I will also mention that Youngkin is to blame for a lot of the issues in 2022-2023.

https://www.veanea.org/vea-challenges-administration-spin-on-sol-test-results/

Things are getting fixed but let’s be clear- I am bringing receipts here. It was a statewide dumpster fire because that happened because of Youngkin- a Trumpster who got voted in because schools were closed and because Terry supported teachers and there was that Loudoun county kid that triggered the whole trans-hysteria in NoVA.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/teen-accused-of-sexual-assaults-in-2-virginia-high-schools/2831314/

https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/

The school systems are adjusting. They are still great. But our federal funding is being completely drained so maybe stop focusing on TJ and start focusing on your base school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

Low income /= stupid

PSAT is generally not prepped.
Aside from the FARM kids, the SES of the TJ students hasn't changed that much.

The overall economic distribution has shifted down. Fewer private school admits, kids from all MSs, more kids who receive FRMs, etc.

Standardized test scores are correlated with income.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/11/new-study-finds-wide-gap-in-sat-act-test-scores-between-wealthy-lower-income-kids/
children of the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans were 13 times likelier than the children of low-income families to score 1300 or higher on SAT/ACT tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Affluent families who could afford test prep programs were buying their kids an unfair advantage in admissions.

In fact, back in 2017 the SB switched to quant-q, which intentionally didn’t share prep, in an effort to reduce this unfair advantage.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/04/26/is-the-no-1-high-school-in-america-thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/
“ “Is it gonna once again advantage those kids whose parents can pay to sign them up for special prep camps to now be prepping for science testing as well?” Megan McLaughlin [FCPS School Board] asked when presented with the new plan.

Admissions director Jeremy Shughart doesn’t think so. The firm that markets the math portion of the test, Quant-Q, doesn’t release materials to the public, a practice that should make them harder for test-prep schools to crack.”


TJ students and others have publicly acknowledged the unfair advantage that money can buy and that test prep companies have a "cache of previous and example prompts".

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/
“ Families with more money can afford to give children that extra edge by signing them up for whatever prep classes they can find. They can pay money to tutoring organizations to teach their children test-taking skills, “skills learned outside of school,” and to access a cache of previous and example prompts, as I witnessed when I took TJ prep; even if prompts become outdated by test changes, even access to old prompts enables private tutoring pupils to gain an upper edge over others: pupils become accustomed to the format of the writing sections and gain an approximate idea of what to expect.”


TJ students admitted that they shared quant-q test questions with a test prep company or they saw nearly identical questions on the test.
https://www.facebook.com/tjvents/posts/pfbid0jKy4hotXF8AxKwfHm2MAVi7e2yYoCqtrTTXPYsszAdQg6uMoTmReMidqyM1mpu9Bl


https://katedalby.com/get-tj-update/
The math required for the test is basic math, algebra, and geometry. In the past, we have used old SAT tests from 30 years ago augmented with select problems to mimic the Quant Q. In order to adapt to the changes, we will increase the number of permutation and combination problems in response to students’ observations about the math last fall.


https://www.optimaltjprep.com/
““M. said that the  math questions were very similar to the challenge problems she did with you in classes.” - C.R. (Mother, after 2018-19 test)
“E. said that the  math questions were very close to what she did with you during the last 2 sessions. To quote her exactly: 'Dr, Tripathi's math problems were dead on point.'  We really appreciate your help with her preparation for the test!” - L.R. (Father, after 2017-18 test)”

Many videos showing how to solve actual SIS math questions on TJ admissions tests:
https://www.youtube.com/@katedalbysinspiringtestpre864/videos
https://www.youtube.com/@EduAvenuesTJTestPrep
https://www.youtube.com/@principiatutorsconsultants4395/videos

If all this is true and your conclusions are correct, then why did we saw no increase in FARM students with the first administration of the quant Q test?

What did the quant Q test have as statistically insignificant impact on who got in relative to other years?

Nobody could prep or study for quant Q because nobody knew what was on the test. So why didn't we see the sort of results you seem to think we would get if all the Asians weren't cheating?

I was explaining the rationale behind the change to Quant-Q, not that it was successful. Any test prep is still better than no test prep.

Some good insights IMO:
"Almost every year since I applied to TJ, the Admissions Office has transformed its admissions process; though this purportedly prevents tutors from coaching students to a test, in actuality, this only makes it harder for disadvantaged groups to help themselves prepare for the exam.

The set of skills needed to excel at the exam is different from the one that’s typically taught in schools: for those who haven’t been taking test prep for years, this may as well be the first time that they’ve taken a timed, standardized test. For those who’ve prepared for years, frequent practice exams and sample prompts allow them to gain experience taking 3 hour multiple choice exams like the Quant-Q/ACT-Aspire. As a senior who went through more than three years of TJ prep classes, the contrast between tuition-based courses and free outreach programs is saddening because tuition-based programs simply have more time and money: the competitive culture that fuels TJ prep encourages students to take classes from elementary school while parents’ money purchases the best prep books and hires the best teachers.

Given the additional vague guidelines, little guidance, and a complete lack of prep material, TJ Admissions and its applicant site denies ordinary people, those without access to expensive courses, the opportunity to get ahead. The gap between applicant and finalist demographics continues to widen as fewer and fewer preparatory resources are made public for applicants."

https://www.tjtoday.org/23143/showcase/the-children-left-behind/

This is not data, this is the self flagellating of virtue signaling middle class kids bemoaning their privilege of being able to afford $2000/year program at places like curie.

Everyone took the quant Q cold that first year. The bottom that multiple choice exams are some secret format is stupid. Strategy and tactics on taking unspecified multiple choice exams is exceedingly thin and can be covered in an afternoon.

It's certainly not enough to explain the statistically similar results with quant Q vs the previous test by pointing at test prep.

Test prep is just dog whistle for "Asians are cheating". Which is just dog whistle for Asians are sneaky, conniving, greedy, immoral and unethical. Pretty much the same stereotype that Jews faced when they were first a model minority.

"Test prep" has never been limited to Asian families. And it's not just limited an afternoon of test taking strategies.

There is a robust test prep industry that caters to all flavors of wealthy people. Even today.

Test prep for a test that nobody has ever seen is limited to about an afternoons worth of material. You can't really peep for a test you have never seen. All you can do is talk about process of elimination, when to guess, overly vague words vs overly restrictive words. If it takes more than an afternoon to teach that to you, you were never getting in to begin with

As I said, it wasn’t just about test strategies. Families were (and still are) willing to spend big bucks in a variety of ways to get their kids a leg up.

Buying/renting in a certain school zone
Tutoring/academic programs
Certain activities/clubs
Essay coaching
Overall admissions consulting
Etc.

They eliminated the test. The argument was that this was to battle test prep and had nothing to do with race. It was clearly about race and had very little to do with test prep.

It was about inequities.

Kids from affluent families have a huge leg up in TJ admissions (and education) in general. Kids from affluent families who targeted activities, tutoring, etc specifically to get into TJ had an even better shot. And the kids who were able to see sample test questions that looked very similar to the actual test questions had the biggest unfair advantage of all.

Chipping away at the obvious inequities in the admissions process was progress but not a complete solution.

If exclusive access to questions was the biggest unfair advantage of all, why would you reduce access to the questions rather than making them public so everyone has access to them?

This was about people being offended by the lack of racial diversity at TJ.

Quant-Q was a mistake, no doubt.

The admissions change was to address multiple areas of privilege, including the most important wrt academics: economic.

There were <1% of kids from economically-disadvantaged families before the change.

Who benefited the most from the change? Asian students from ED families.

And MC Asians were the most harmed group. So now what?

How exactly? Asian enrollment is at a historic high.

DP.

You're the one that keeps crowing about how low income asians increased by 50 students. If asian enrollment overall dropped then the non-low income asian enrollment dropped by 50 plus whatever the overall drop in asian enrollment was.

But the biggest loser wasn't asians of any stripe, it was smart kids.
Smart kids and society. Society is misallocating resources to kids that don't really benefit from that TJ has to offer and gets very little in return.
The same people pushing less qualified kids at TJ are the same people who bemoan trump not letting the smartest students from around the world into Harvard.
How is locking out the smartest kids from Harvard to pursue some non-academic goal any worse than looking out the smartest kids from TJ to pursue some non-academic goal?

This is really about the left's uncomfortable relationship with merit.
They feel uneasy about how merit develops unevenly through society.
They tried very hard for decades to try and close the achievement gap by making things easier for black and hispanic kids. And they failed miserably.
Meanwhile asian parents spent that time making life harder for their kids (at least academically). And they succeeded so much that the left started hating them for their success.
You can't build muscle by reducing the load and you can't pick people based on race and say you are picking them based on strength.
The same applies to cognitive ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. Also: the old system required parents to pay $100 to even take the exam. $100 is a lot of money for people to pay for an application to a high school they probably won’t get into. That’s where a lot of people will say: you were able to buy the test- because you were able to not just buy sample test questions or enrich, the test itself was expensive to begin with.

When the new system rolled out, they were going to make it a lottery, which I completely opposed and argued against on this forum. After they modified it, I have been advocating for them to keep it because it isn’t based on race. It is based on geography and merit. Raising the GPA is a good idea but the current system now is still way better than the old system. The same number of Asians are going into the school. And now we have more kids going to Princeton than in years before.

I would also like to mention that the new Principal is also Asian and seems to truly care about making sure the kids aren’t burning out and having the parents trust the process- while raising the schools academic index. So it seems to me that a lot of the parents who are complaining about the new system are of the same vein as our AG Miyares or just haven’t been really looking at the data.

Removing the $100 fee was a great idea, everything else was stupid and racist.

The first class under the new system saw a 120 point drop in PSAT score. The drop in student quality is not imagined. The reason for the change was racially driven

PP here. Also Asian.

The PSAT is given sophomore year and for the first class under the new system, it was given in Fall of 2022. That was shortly after the pandemic, and also after the first class also had their first full year back in school as freshman as TJ.

To blame the new admissions system on the drop in national merit semifinalists is not looking at history correctly. You and I will both agree that changing the TJ admissions during the pandemic was one of the shadiest things the SB could ever do. But blaming the drop on just the admissions and not looking at how the whole county handled school closures because of Trump and Covid is absurd. Because remember- schools closed under Trump. The world shut down under Trump. So don’t assume that it’s just the admissions. Lots of those kids also lost family members and dealt with the trauma of Covid and the online abuse of people like you, claiming they aren’t worthy enough.

Then why was TJ the ONLY school to see this sort of drop? None of the other FCPS schools saw this sort of drop. None of the science schools in NYC saw this sort of drop.

Was TJ the only school affected by COVID? And the PSAT NMSF are relative to all the other kids taking the test as 11th graders that year.

But also, if you had kids in school at all… you would know that kids were not adjusting well to in person education. You would remember the increase of cyberbullying and how phones were uncontrolled. It was only recently (like this year) FCPS banned phones in the classroom. That first year back was chaotic. The second year wasn’t much better. It was last year that teachers said kids were getting better. 2023-2024.

And TJ was not unique in this. EVERY school had similar issues.

If you think gifted kids were not on their phones or didn’t have issues with digital distraction as a result of school closure- well, you either don’t have kids or your logic is deeply flawed. It also suggests that your memory of what happened during those years is so hyper fixated on the admissions that you forget- The GOP effed up the country. And that any war cry they pick up to get the Asian vote is because you have forgotten the deeply effed up things that also affected test scores.

And in your unflawed logic, why didn't this affect anyone outside of TJ like this?

Btw- that first new admissions class is sending a grad to Oxford. And five to Princeton. Usually we only send 2 to Princeton and none to Oxford. And the Oxford student is Asian. Some of the parents are upset that their kids aren’t going where they assumed TJ would just send them to, but they are all thrilled their kids aren’t going to a good college and a bunch of them got full rides.

But hey….. keep screaming that GOP race baiting drivel here.

Dismissing legitimate concerns with really bad logic and calling their concerns GOP drivel is the reason why trump won. People like you are why trump won.

I just checked the school quality reports- and lots of FCPS high schools had issues the 2022-2023 year with their students- in particular their minority students.

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

You made a generalization. But I checked- TJ was not the only school with a dip.

I will also mention that Youngkin is to blame for a lot of the issues in 2022-2023.

https://www.veanea.org/vea-challenges-administration-spin-on-sol-test-results/

Things are getting fixed but let’s be clear- I am bringing receipts here. It was a statewide dumpster fire because that happened because of Youngkin- a Trumpster who got voted in because schools were closed and because Terry supported teachers and there was that Loudoun county kid that triggered the whole trans-hysteria in NoVA.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/teen-accused-of-sexual-assaults-in-2-virginia-high-schools/2831314/

https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/

The school systems are adjusting. They are still great. But our federal funding is being completely drained so maybe stop focusing on TJ and start focusing on your base school?

What receipts?

Who else had PSAT scores drop anything close to 120 points?

You are pointing to some SOL scores that drifted down at some schools and ignoring the fact that they plummetted at TJ.

FCPS does not suffer from a federal funding issue. We never got a lot of federal funds because we are rich. The federal funds tend to go to poorer districts and they should.

Stop trying to make excuses for racism because you think you can tell the difference between good racisma nd bad racism. There is no such thing as good racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. Also: the old system required parents to pay $100 to even take the exam. $100 is a lot of money for people to pay for an application to a high school they probably won’t get into. That’s where a lot of people will say: you were able to buy the test- because you were able to not just buy sample test questions or enrich, the test itself was expensive to begin with.

When the new system rolled out, they were going to make it a lottery, which I completely opposed and argued against on this forum. After they modified it, I have been advocating for them to keep it because it isn’t based on race. It is based on geography and merit. Raising the GPA is a good idea but the current system now is still way better than the old system. The same number of Asians are going into the school. And now we have more kids going to Princeton than in years before.

I would also like to mention that the new Principal is also Asian and seems to truly care about making sure the kids aren’t burning out and having the parents trust the process- while raising the schools academic index. So it seems to me that a lot of the parents who are complaining about the new system are of the same vein as our AG Miyares or just haven’t been really looking at the data.

Removing the $100 fee was a great idea, everything else was stupid and racist.

The first class under the new system saw a 120 point drop in PSAT score. The drop in student quality is not imagined. The reason for the change was racially driven

PP here. Also Asian.

The PSAT is given sophomore year and for the first class under the new system, it was given in Fall of 2022. That was shortly after the pandemic, and also after the first class also had their first full year back in school as freshman as TJ.

To blame the new admissions system on the drop in national merit semifinalists is not looking at history correctly. You and I will both agree that changing the TJ admissions during the pandemic was one of the shadiest things the SB could ever do. But blaming the drop on just the admissions and not looking at how the whole county handled school closures because of Trump and Covid is absurd. Because remember- schools closed under Trump. The world shut down under Trump. So don’t assume that it’s just the admissions. Lots of those kids also lost family members and dealt with the trauma of Covid and the online abuse of people like you, claiming they aren’t worthy enough.

Then why was TJ the ONLY school to see this sort of drop? None of the other FCPS schools saw this sort of drop. None of the science schools in NYC saw this sort of drop.

Was TJ the only school affected by COVID? And the PSAT NMSF are relative to all the other kids taking the test as 11th graders that year.

But also, if you had kids in school at all… you would know that kids were not adjusting well to in person education. You would remember the increase of cyberbullying and how phones were uncontrolled. It was only recently (like this year) FCPS banned phones in the classroom. That first year back was chaotic. The second year wasn’t much better. It was last year that teachers said kids were getting better. 2023-2024.

And TJ was not unique in this. EVERY school had similar issues.

If you think gifted kids were not on their phones or didn’t have issues with digital distraction as a result of school closure- well, you either don’t have kids or your logic is deeply flawed. It also suggests that your memory of what happened during those years is so hyper fixated on the admissions that you forget- The GOP effed up the country. And that any war cry they pick up to get the Asian vote is because you have forgotten the deeply effed up things that also affected test scores.

And in your unflawed logic, why didn't this affect anyone outside of TJ like this?

Btw- that first new admissions class is sending a grad to Oxford. And five to Princeton. Usually we only send 2 to Princeton and none to Oxford. And the Oxford student is Asian. Some of the parents are upset that their kids aren’t going where they assumed TJ would just send them to, but they are all thrilled their kids aren’t going to a good college and a bunch of them got full rides.

But hey….. keep screaming that GOP race baiting drivel here.

Dismissing legitimate concerns with really bad logic and calling their concerns GOP drivel is the reason why trump won. People like you are why trump won.

I just checked the school quality reports- and lots of FCPS high schools had issues the 2022-2023 year with their students- in particular their minority students.

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

You made a generalization. But I checked- TJ was not the only school with a dip.

I will also mention that Youngkin is to blame for a lot of the issues in 2022-2023.

https://www.veanea.org/vea-challenges-administration-spin-on-sol-test-results/

Things are getting fixed but let’s be clear- I am bringing receipts here. It was a statewide dumpster fire because that happened because of Youngkin- a Trumpster who got voted in because schools were closed and because Terry supported teachers and there was that Loudoun county kid that triggered the whole trans-hysteria in NoVA.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/teen-accused-of-sexual-assaults-in-2-virginia-high-schools/2831314/

https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/

The school systems are adjusting. They are still great. But our federal funding is being completely drained so maybe stop focusing on TJ and start focusing on your base school?

What receipts?

Who else had PSAT scores drop anything close to 120 points?

You are pointing to some SOL scores that drifted down at some schools and ignoring the fact that they plummetted at TJ.

FCPS does not suffer from a federal funding issue. We never got a lot of federal funds because we are rich. The federal funds tend to go to poorer districts and they should.

Stop trying to make excuses for racism because you think you can tell the difference between good racisma nd bad racism. There is no such thing as good racism.

Who else saw FRM #s change so significantly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

Low income /= stupid

PSAT is generally not prepped.
Aside from the FARM kids, the SES of the TJ students hasn't changed that much.

The overall economic distribution has shifted down. Fewer private school admits, kids from all MSs, more kids who receive FRMs, etc.

Standardized test scores are correlated with income.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/11/new-study-finds-wide-gap-in-sat-act-test-scores-between-wealthy-lower-income-kids/
children of the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans were 13 times likelier than the children of low-income families to score 1300 or higher on SAT/ACT tests.

You didn't read the article did you?

The article interviews one of the authors of the study and asks if the SAT is a wealth test and he says:

DEMING: I think that’s a little bit misleading. And the reason is that everything that matters in college admissions is related to wealth, including the SATs. I think when people call it a wealth test, they mean to delegitimize it as a measure of who can succeed in school. And the reality is that the SAT test does predict success in college. The SAT does capture something about whether you’re ready to do college level work.

I would urge us to create conditions under which there are more low- and middle-income students who can do well on the test, not to get rid of the test. Getting rid of the test doesn’t make the disparity go away. It just makes it invisible in the eyes of the public. For me, that’s the wrong direction.

Also, if you get rid of the SAT, as many colleges have done, what you have left is things that are also related to wealth, probably even more so. Whether you can write a persuasive college essay, whether you can have the kinds of experiences that give you high ratings for extracurricular activities and leadership; those things are incredibly related to wealth.

My worry is that if we get rid of the SAT, you’re getting rid of the only way that a low-income student who’s academically talented has to distinguish themselves. Getting rid of the SAT means those people don’t have the opportunity to be noticed. I don’t think the SAT is perfect, but I think the problem isn’t the test. The problem is everything that happens before the test.

The same people later published this peer reviewed study that says that a wealthy kid with a good SAT score does just as well as a poor kid with the same SAT score. if the SAT score was in part driven by wealth in a way that was divorced from academic ability, you would expect the poor kid with a 1500 to outperform the rich kid with a 1500 and yet they do almost exactly the same.

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

You know what else correlates with high test scores? Being Asian.

Almost 10% of asians get above a 1500 ono the SAT

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

Low income /= stupid

PSAT is generally not prepped.
Aside from the FARM kids, the SES of the TJ students hasn't changed that much.

The overall economic distribution has shifted down. Fewer private school admits, kids from all MSs, more kids who receive FRMs, etc.

Standardized test scores are correlated with income.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/11/new-study-finds-wide-gap-in-sat-act-test-scores-between-wealthy-lower-income-kids/
children of the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans were 13 times likelier than the children of low-income families to score 1300 or higher on SAT/ACT tests.

You didn't read the article did you?

The article interviews one of the authors of the study and asks if the SAT is a wealth test and he says:

DEMING: I think that’s a little bit misleading. And the reason is that everything that matters in college admissions is related to wealth, including the SATs. I think when people call it a wealth test, they mean to delegitimize it as a measure of who can succeed in school. And the reality is that the SAT test does predict success in college. The SAT does capture something about whether you’re ready to do college level work.

I would urge us to create conditions under which there are more low- and middle-income students who can do well on the test, not to get rid of the test. Getting rid of the test doesn’t make the disparity go away. It just makes it invisible in the eyes of the public. For me, that’s the wrong direction.

Also, if you get rid of the SAT, as many colleges have done, what you have left is things that are also related to wealth, probably even more so. Whether you can write a persuasive college essay, whether you can have the kinds of experiences that give you high ratings for extracurricular activities and leadership; those things are incredibly related to wealth.

My worry is that if we get rid of the SAT, you’re getting rid of the only way that a low-income student who’s academically talented has to distinguish themselves. Getting rid of the SAT means those people don’t have the opportunity to be noticed. I don’t think the SAT is perfect, but I think the problem isn’t the test. The problem is everything that happens before the test.

The same people later published this peer reviewed study that says that a wealthy kid with a good SAT score does just as well as a poor kid with the same SAT score. if the SAT score was in part driven by wealth in a way that was divorced from academic ability, you would expect the poor kid with a 1500 to outperform the rich kid with a 1500 and yet they do almost exactly the same.

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

You know what else correlates with high test scores? Being Asian.

Almost 10% of asians get above a 1500 ono the SAT

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

I did read it; my point stands: standardized test scores are correlated with income.

And as you quoted:
"everything that matters in college admissions is related to wealth"
"those things are incredibly related to wealth"


So, as I originally said, TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. Also: the old system required parents to pay $100 to even take the exam. $100 is a lot of money for people to pay for an application to a high school they probably won’t get into. That’s where a lot of people will say: you were able to buy the test- because you were able to not just buy sample test questions or enrich, the test itself was expensive to begin with.

When the new system rolled out, they were going to make it a lottery, which I completely opposed and argued against on this forum. After they modified it, I have been advocating for them to keep it because it isn’t based on race. It is based on geography and merit. Raising the GPA is a good idea but the current system now is still way better than the old system. The same number of Asians are going into the school. And now we have more kids going to Princeton than in years before.

I would also like to mention that the new Principal is also Asian and seems to truly care about making sure the kids aren’t burning out and having the parents trust the process- while raising the schools academic index. So it seems to me that a lot of the parents who are complaining about the new system are of the same vein as our AG Miyares or just haven’t been really looking at the data.

Removing the $100 fee was a great idea, everything else was stupid and racist.

The first class under the new system saw a 120 point drop in PSAT score. The drop in student quality is not imagined. The reason for the change was racially driven

PP here. Also Asian.

The PSAT is given sophomore year and for the first class under the new system, it was given in Fall of 2022. That was shortly after the pandemic, and also after the first class also had their first full year back in school as freshman as TJ.

To blame the new admissions system on the drop in national merit semifinalists is not looking at history correctly. You and I will both agree that changing the TJ admissions during the pandemic was one of the shadiest things the SB could ever do. But blaming the drop on just the admissions and not looking at how the whole county handled school closures because of Trump and Covid is absurd. Because remember- schools closed under Trump. The world shut down under Trump. So don’t assume that it’s just the admissions. Lots of those kids also lost family members and dealt with the trauma of Covid and the online abuse of people like you, claiming they aren’t worthy enough.

Then why was TJ the ONLY school to see this sort of drop? None of the other FCPS schools saw this sort of drop. None of the science schools in NYC saw this sort of drop.

Was TJ the only school affected by COVID? And the PSAT NMSF are relative to all the other kids taking the test as 11th graders that year.

But also, if you had kids in school at all… you would know that kids were not adjusting well to in person education. You would remember the increase of cyberbullying and how phones were uncontrolled. It was only recently (like this year) FCPS banned phones in the classroom. That first year back was chaotic. The second year wasn’t much better. It was last year that teachers said kids were getting better. 2023-2024.

And TJ was not unique in this. EVERY school had similar issues.

If you think gifted kids were not on their phones or didn’t have issues with digital distraction as a result of school closure- well, you either don’t have kids or your logic is deeply flawed. It also suggests that your memory of what happened during those years is so hyper fixated on the admissions that you forget- The GOP effed up the country. And that any war cry they pick up to get the Asian vote is because you have forgotten the deeply effed up things that also affected test scores.

And in your unflawed logic, why didn't this affect anyone outside of TJ like this?

Btw- that first new admissions class is sending a grad to Oxford. And five to Princeton. Usually we only send 2 to Princeton and none to Oxford. And the Oxford student is Asian. Some of the parents are upset that their kids aren’t going where they assumed TJ would just send them to, but they are all thrilled their kids aren’t going to a good college and a bunch of them got full rides.

But hey….. keep screaming that GOP race baiting drivel here.

Dismissing legitimate concerns with really bad logic and calling their concerns GOP drivel is the reason why trump won. People like you are why trump won.

I just checked the school quality reports- and lots of FCPS high schools had issues the 2022-2023 year with their students- in particular their minority students.

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

You made a generalization. But I checked- TJ was not the only school with a dip.

I will also mention that Youngkin is to blame for a lot of the issues in 2022-2023.

https://www.veanea.org/vea-challenges-administration-spin-on-sol-test-results/

Things are getting fixed but let’s be clear- I am bringing receipts here. It was a statewide dumpster fire because that happened because of Youngkin- a Trumpster who got voted in because schools were closed and because Terry supported teachers and there was that Loudoun county kid that triggered the whole trans-hysteria in NoVA.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/teen-accused-of-sexual-assaults-in-2-virginia-high-schools/2831314/

https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/

The school systems are adjusting. They are still great. But our federal funding is being completely drained so maybe stop focusing on TJ and start focusing on your base school?

What receipts?

Who else had PSAT scores drop anything close to 120 points?

You are pointing to some SOL scores that drifted down at some schools and ignoring the fact that they plummetted at TJ.

FCPS does not suffer from a federal funding issue. We never got a lot of federal funds because we are rich. The federal funds tend to go to poorer districts and they should.

Stop trying to make excuses for racism because you think you can tell the difference between good racisma nd bad racism. There is no such thing as good racism.

Who else saw FRM #s change so significantly?

Do you know how low their test scores have to be for 25% of the population to drag down the average by 120 points? If all else remained equal, the poor kids would have to average under 1000 on the PSAT to drag down the average by 120 points.

I know you are trying to make yourself right but you are not fooling anyone, not even yourself. You know that the new admissions process led to a less qualified class.
Stop trying to blame the poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

Low income /= stupid

PSAT is generally not prepped.
Aside from the FARM kids, the SES of the TJ students hasn't changed that much.

The overall economic distribution has shifted down. Fewer private school admits, kids from all MSs, more kids who receive FRMs, etc.

Standardized test scores are correlated with income.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/11/new-study-finds-wide-gap-in-sat-act-test-scores-between-wealthy-lower-income-kids/
children of the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans were 13 times likelier than the children of low-income families to score 1300 or higher on SAT/ACT tests.

You didn't read the article did you?

The article interviews one of the authors of the study and asks if the SAT is a wealth test and he says:

DEMING: I think that’s a little bit misleading. And the reason is that everything that matters in college admissions is related to wealth, including the SATs. I think when people call it a wealth test, they mean to delegitimize it as a measure of who can succeed in school. And the reality is that the SAT test does predict success in college. The SAT does capture something about whether you’re ready to do college level work.

I would urge us to create conditions under which there are more low- and middle-income students who can do well on the test, not to get rid of the test. Getting rid of the test doesn’t make the disparity go away. It just makes it invisible in the eyes of the public. For me, that’s the wrong direction.

Also, if you get rid of the SAT, as many colleges have done, what you have left is things that are also related to wealth, probably even more so. Whether you can write a persuasive college essay, whether you can have the kinds of experiences that give you high ratings for extracurricular activities and leadership; those things are incredibly related to wealth.

My worry is that if we get rid of the SAT, you’re getting rid of the only way that a low-income student who’s academically talented has to distinguish themselves. Getting rid of the SAT means those people don’t have the opportunity to be noticed. I don’t think the SAT is perfect, but I think the problem isn’t the test. The problem is everything that happens before the test.

The same people later published this peer reviewed study that says that a wealthy kid with a good SAT score does just as well as a poor kid with the same SAT score. if the SAT score was in part driven by wealth in a way that was divorced from academic ability, you would expect the poor kid with a 1500 to outperform the rich kid with a 1500 and yet they do almost exactly the same.

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

You know what else correlates with high test scores? Being Asian.

Almost 10% of asians get above a 1500 ono the SAT

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

I did read it; my point stands: standardized test scores are correlated with income.

And as you quoted:
"everything that matters in college admissions is related to wealth"
"those things are incredibly related to wealth"


So, as I originally said, TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

Did you miss the part about how people like you try to use this correlation to try and delegitimize standardized tests? Standardized tests are the single best predictor of not only academic performance but a whole raft of lifetime outcomes because they frequently measure cognitive ability and cognitive ability affects almost everything.

Your point is true but it is meaninglessd. The fact that rich people tend to have smart kids is not news to anybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. Also: the old system required parents to pay $100 to even take the exam. $100 is a lot of money for people to pay for an application to a high school they probably won’t get into. That’s where a lot of people will say: you were able to buy the test- because you were able to not just buy sample test questions or enrich, the test itself was expensive to begin with.

When the new system rolled out, they were going to make it a lottery, which I completely opposed and argued against on this forum. After they modified it, I have been advocating for them to keep it because it isn’t based on race. It is based on geography and merit. Raising the GPA is a good idea but the current system now is still way better than the old system. The same number of Asians are going into the school. And now we have more kids going to Princeton than in years before.

I would also like to mention that the new Principal is also Asian and seems to truly care about making sure the kids aren’t burning out and having the parents trust the process- while raising the schools academic index. So it seems to me that a lot of the parents who are complaining about the new system are of the same vein as our AG Miyares or just haven’t been really looking at the data.

Removing the $100 fee was a great idea, everything else was stupid and racist.

The first class under the new system saw a 120 point drop in PSAT score. The drop in student quality is not imagined. The reason for the change was racially driven

PP here. Also Asian.

The PSAT is given sophomore year and for the first class under the new system, it was given in Fall of 2022. That was shortly after the pandemic, and also after the first class also had their first full year back in school as freshman as TJ.

To blame the new admissions system on the drop in national merit semifinalists is not looking at history correctly. You and I will both agree that changing the TJ admissions during the pandemic was one of the shadiest things the SB could ever do. But blaming the drop on just the admissions and not looking at how the whole county handled school closures because of Trump and Covid is absurd. Because remember- schools closed under Trump. The world shut down under Trump. So don’t assume that it’s just the admissions. Lots of those kids also lost family members and dealt with the trauma of Covid and the online abuse of people like you, claiming they aren’t worthy enough.

Then why was TJ the ONLY school to see this sort of drop? None of the other FCPS schools saw this sort of drop. None of the science schools in NYC saw this sort of drop.

Was TJ the only school affected by COVID? And the PSAT NMSF are relative to all the other kids taking the test as 11th graders that year.

But also, if you had kids in school at all… you would know that kids were not adjusting well to in person education. You would remember the increase of cyberbullying and how phones were uncontrolled. It was only recently (like this year) FCPS banned phones in the classroom. That first year back was chaotic. The second year wasn’t much better. It was last year that teachers said kids were getting better. 2023-2024.

And TJ was not unique in this. EVERY school had similar issues.

If you think gifted kids were not on their phones or didn’t have issues with digital distraction as a result of school closure- well, you either don’t have kids or your logic is deeply flawed. It also suggests that your memory of what happened during those years is so hyper fixated on the admissions that you forget- The GOP effed up the country. And that any war cry they pick up to get the Asian vote is because you have forgotten the deeply effed up things that also affected test scores.

And in your unflawed logic, why didn't this affect anyone outside of TJ like this?

Btw- that first new admissions class is sending a grad to Oxford. And five to Princeton. Usually we only send 2 to Princeton and none to Oxford. And the Oxford student is Asian. Some of the parents are upset that their kids aren’t going where they assumed TJ would just send them to, but they are all thrilled their kids aren’t going to a good college and a bunch of them got full rides.

But hey….. keep screaming that GOP race baiting drivel here.

Dismissing legitimate concerns with really bad logic and calling their concerns GOP drivel is the reason why trump won. People like you are why trump won.

I just checked the school quality reports- and lots of FCPS high schools had issues the 2022-2023 year with their students- in particular their minority students.

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

You made a generalization. But I checked- TJ was not the only school with a dip.

I will also mention that Youngkin is to blame for a lot of the issues in 2022-2023.

https://www.veanea.org/vea-challenges-administration-spin-on-sol-test-results/

Things are getting fixed but let’s be clear- I am bringing receipts here. It was a statewide dumpster fire because that happened because of Youngkin- a Trumpster who got voted in because schools were closed and because Terry supported teachers and there was that Loudoun county kid that triggered the whole trans-hysteria in NoVA.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/teen-accused-of-sexual-assaults-in-2-virginia-high-schools/2831314/

https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/

The school systems are adjusting. They are still great. But our federal funding is being completely drained so maybe stop focusing on TJ and start focusing on your base school?

What receipts?

Who else had PSAT scores drop anything close to 120 points?

You are pointing to some SOL scores that drifted down at some schools and ignoring the fact that they plummetted at TJ.

FCPS does not suffer from a federal funding issue. We never got a lot of federal funds because we are rich. The federal funds tend to go to poorer districts and they should.

Stop trying to make excuses for racism because you think you can tell the difference between good racisma nd bad racism. There is no such thing as good racism.

Who else saw FRM #s change so significantly?

Do you know how low their test scores have to be for 25% of the population to drag down the average by 120 points? If all else remained equal, the poor kids would have to average under 1000 on the PSAT to drag down the average by 120 points.

I know you are trying to make yourself right but you are not fooling anyone, not even yourself. You know that the new admissions process led to a less qualified class.
Stop trying to blame the poor kids.

I'm not blaming anyone, just pointing out the facts: the economic distribution of TJ students has shifted. Given that standardized testing scores are correlated to family income, we should expect test scores to shift as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

Low income /= stupid

PSAT is generally not prepped.
Aside from the FARM kids, the SES of the TJ students hasn't changed that much.

The overall economic distribution has shifted down. Fewer private school admits, kids from all MSs, more kids who receive FRMs, etc.

Standardized test scores are correlated with income.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/11/new-study-finds-wide-gap-in-sat-act-test-scores-between-wealthy-lower-income-kids/
children of the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans were 13 times likelier than the children of low-income families to score 1300 or higher on SAT/ACT tests.

You didn't read the article did you?

The article interviews one of the authors of the study and asks if the SAT is a wealth test and he says:

DEMING: I think that’s a little bit misleading. And the reason is that everything that matters in college admissions is related to wealth, including the SATs. I think when people call it a wealth test, they mean to delegitimize it as a measure of who can succeed in school. And the reality is that the SAT test does predict success in college. The SAT does capture something about whether you’re ready to do college level work.

I would urge us to create conditions under which there are more low- and middle-income students who can do well on the test, not to get rid of the test. Getting rid of the test doesn’t make the disparity go away. It just makes it invisible in the eyes of the public. For me, that’s the wrong direction.

Also, if you get rid of the SAT, as many colleges have done, what you have left is things that are also related to wealth, probably even more so. Whether you can write a persuasive college essay, whether you can have the kinds of experiences that give you high ratings for extracurricular activities and leadership; those things are incredibly related to wealth.

My worry is that if we get rid of the SAT, you’re getting rid of the only way that a low-income student who’s academically talented has to distinguish themselves. Getting rid of the SAT means those people don’t have the opportunity to be noticed. I don’t think the SAT is perfect, but I think the problem isn’t the test. The problem is everything that happens before the test.

The same people later published this peer reviewed study that says that a wealthy kid with a good SAT score does just as well as a poor kid with the same SAT score. if the SAT score was in part driven by wealth in a way that was divorced from academic ability, you would expect the poor kid with a 1500 to outperform the rich kid with a 1500 and yet they do almost exactly the same.

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

You know what else correlates with high test scores? Being Asian.

Almost 10% of asians get above a 1500 ono the SAT

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

I did read it; my point stands: standardized test scores are correlated with income.

And as you quoted:
"everything that matters in college admissions is related to wealth"
"those things are incredibly related to wealth"


So, as I originally said, TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

Did you miss the part about how people like you try to use this correlation to try and delegitimize standardized tests? Standardized tests are the single best predictor of not only academic performance but a whole raft of lifetime outcomes because they frequently measure cognitive ability and cognitive ability affects almost everything.

Your point is true but it is meaninglessd. The fact that rich people tend to have smart kids is not news to anybody.

Rich people tend to have kids who benefit from their privilege.

I didn't say anything about the legitimacy or value of standardized tests. I am merely pointing out the fact that standardized test scores are correlated with family income. A shift in incomes naturally leads to a shift in scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. Also: the old system required parents to pay $100 to even take the exam. $100 is a lot of money for people to pay for an application to a high school they probably won’t get into. That’s where a lot of people will say: you were able to buy the test- because you were able to not just buy sample test questions or enrich, the test itself was expensive to begin with.

When the new system rolled out, they were going to make it a lottery, which I completely opposed and argued against on this forum. After they modified it, I have been advocating for them to keep it because it isn’t based on race. It is based on geography and merit. Raising the GPA is a good idea but the current system now is still way better than the old system. The same number of Asians are going into the school. And now we have more kids going to Princeton than in years before.

I would also like to mention that the new Principal is also Asian and seems to truly care about making sure the kids aren’t burning out and having the parents trust the process- while raising the schools academic index. So it seems to me that a lot of the parents who are complaining about the new system are of the same vein as our AG Miyares or just haven’t been really looking at the data.

Removing the $100 fee was a great idea, everything else was stupid and racist.

The first class under the new system saw a 120 point drop in PSAT score. The drop in student quality is not imagined. The reason for the change was racially driven

PP here. Also Asian.

The PSAT is given sophomore year and for the first class under the new system, it was given in Fall of 2022. That was shortly after the pandemic, and also after the first class also had their first full year back in school as freshman as TJ.

To blame the new admissions system on the drop in national merit semifinalists is not looking at history correctly. You and I will both agree that changing the TJ admissions during the pandemic was one of the shadiest things the SB could ever do. But blaming the drop on just the admissions and not looking at how the whole county handled school closures because of Trump and Covid is absurd. Because remember- schools closed under Trump. The world shut down under Trump. So don’t assume that it’s just the admissions. Lots of those kids also lost family members and dealt with the trauma of Covid and the online abuse of people like you, claiming they aren’t worthy enough.

Then why was TJ the ONLY school to see this sort of drop? None of the other FCPS schools saw this sort of drop. None of the science schools in NYC saw this sort of drop.

Was TJ the only school affected by COVID? And the PSAT NMSF are relative to all the other kids taking the test as 11th graders that year.

But also, if you had kids in school at all… you would know that kids were not adjusting well to in person education. You would remember the increase of cyberbullying and how phones were uncontrolled. It was only recently (like this year) FCPS banned phones in the classroom. That first year back was chaotic. The second year wasn’t much better. It was last year that teachers said kids were getting better. 2023-2024.

And TJ was not unique in this. EVERY school had similar issues.

If you think gifted kids were not on their phones or didn’t have issues with digital distraction as a result of school closure- well, you either don’t have kids or your logic is deeply flawed. It also suggests that your memory of what happened during those years is so hyper fixated on the admissions that you forget- The GOP effed up the country. And that any war cry they pick up to get the Asian vote is because you have forgotten the deeply effed up things that also affected test scores.

And in your unflawed logic, why didn't this affect anyone outside of TJ like this?

Btw- that first new admissions class is sending a grad to Oxford. And five to Princeton. Usually we only send 2 to Princeton and none to Oxford. And the Oxford student is Asian. Some of the parents are upset that their kids aren’t going where they assumed TJ would just send them to, but they are all thrilled their kids aren’t going to a good college and a bunch of them got full rides.

But hey….. keep screaming that GOP race baiting drivel here.

Dismissing legitimate concerns with really bad logic and calling their concerns GOP drivel is the reason why trump won. People like you are why trump won.

I just checked the school quality reports- and lots of FCPS high schools had issues the 2022-2023 year with their students- in particular their minority students.

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

You made a generalization. But I checked- TJ was not the only school with a dip.

I will also mention that Youngkin is to blame for a lot of the issues in 2022-2023.

https://www.veanea.org/vea-challenges-administration-spin-on-sol-test-results/

Things are getting fixed but let’s be clear- I am bringing receipts here. It was a statewide dumpster fire because that happened because of Youngkin- a Trumpster who got voted in because schools were closed and because Terry supported teachers and there was that Loudoun county kid that triggered the whole trans-hysteria in NoVA.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/teen-accused-of-sexual-assaults-in-2-virginia-high-schools/2831314/

https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/

The school systems are adjusting. They are still great. But our federal funding is being completely drained so maybe stop focusing on TJ and start focusing on your base school?

What receipts?

Who else had PSAT scores drop anything close to 120 points?

You are pointing to some SOL scores that drifted down at some schools and ignoring the fact that they plummetted at TJ.

FCPS does not suffer from a federal funding issue. We never got a lot of federal funds because we are rich. The federal funds tend to go to poorer districts and they should.

Stop trying to make excuses for racism because you think you can tell the difference between good racisma nd bad racism. There is no such thing as good racism.

Who else saw FRM #s change so significantly?

Do you know how low their test scores have to be for 25% of the population to drag down the average by 120 points? If all else remained equal, the poor kids would have to average under 1000 on the PSAT to drag down the average by 120 points.

I know you are trying to make yourself right but you are not fooling anyone, not even yourself. You know that the new admissions process led to a less qualified class.
Stop trying to blame the poor kids.

I'm not blaming anyone, just pointing out the facts: the economic distribution of TJ students has shifted. Given that standardized testing scores are correlated to family income, we should expect test scores to shift as well.

First of all, the increase in FRM kids cannot explain the drop unless those FRM kids are scoring below average PSAT results, so it's not just the FRM kids.
Secondly, we aren't doing them any favors by putting them in highly competitive environments they aren't prepared for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

Low income /= stupid

PSAT is generally not prepped.
Aside from the FARM kids, the SES of the TJ students hasn't changed that much.

The overall economic distribution has shifted down. Fewer private school admits, kids from all MSs, more kids who receive FRMs, etc.

Standardized test scores are correlated with income.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/11/new-study-finds-wide-gap-in-sat-act-test-scores-between-wealthy-lower-income-kids/
children of the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans were 13 times likelier than the children of low-income families to score 1300 or higher on SAT/ACT tests.

You didn't read the article did you?

The article interviews one of the authors of the study and asks if the SAT is a wealth test and he says:

DEMING: I think that’s a little bit misleading. And the reason is that everything that matters in college admissions is related to wealth, including the SATs. I think when people call it a wealth test, they mean to delegitimize it as a measure of who can succeed in school. And the reality is that the SAT test does predict success in college. The SAT does capture something about whether you’re ready to do college level work.

I would urge us to create conditions under which there are more low- and middle-income students who can do well on the test, not to get rid of the test. Getting rid of the test doesn’t make the disparity go away. It just makes it invisible in the eyes of the public. For me, that’s the wrong direction.

Also, if you get rid of the SAT, as many colleges have done, what you have left is things that are also related to wealth, probably even more so. Whether you can write a persuasive college essay, whether you can have the kinds of experiences that give you high ratings for extracurricular activities and leadership; those things are incredibly related to wealth.

My worry is that if we get rid of the SAT, you’re getting rid of the only way that a low-income student who’s academically talented has to distinguish themselves. Getting rid of the SAT means those people don’t have the opportunity to be noticed. I don’t think the SAT is perfect, but I think the problem isn’t the test. The problem is everything that happens before the test.

The same people later published this peer reviewed study that says that a wealthy kid with a good SAT score does just as well as a poor kid with the same SAT score. if the SAT score was in part driven by wealth in a way that was divorced from academic ability, you would expect the poor kid with a 1500 to outperform the rich kid with a 1500 and yet they do almost exactly the same.

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

You know what else correlates with high test scores? Being Asian.

Almost 10% of asians get above a 1500 ono the SAT

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf

I did read it; my point stands: standardized test scores are correlated with income.

And as you quoted:
"everything that matters in college admissions is related to wealth"
"those things are incredibly related to wealth"


So, as I originally said, TJ saw a significant increase in kids from lower-income families. Of course that shifts standardized test results.

Did you miss the part about how people like you try to use this correlation to try and delegitimize standardized tests? Standardized tests are the single best predictor of not only academic performance but a whole raft of lifetime outcomes because they frequently measure cognitive ability and cognitive ability affects almost everything.

Your point is true but it is meaninglessd. The fact that rich people tend to have smart kids is not news to anybody.

Rich people tend to have kids who benefit from their privilege.

I didn't say anything about the legitimacy or value of standardized tests. I am merely pointing out the fact that standardized test scores are correlated with family income. A shift in incomes naturally leads to a shift in scores.

Regardless of how they got there, the rich kids are smarter. Whether it's because they had smarter parents or because they had better instruction, the kids are smarter.

You can have a school full of smart poor kids (see stuyvesant), but you have to select for them using metrics that measure how smart they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-thomas-jefferson-high-school-science-and-technology-class-2029

Offers made to "academically wealthy feeders" (schools with most advanced STEM students):
Carson Middle School - 48
Cooper Middle School - 25
Longfellow Middle School - 48
Rocky Run Middle School - 22

The term “academically wealthy feeders” is used by certain posters on this forum, with a tone of envy, to describe top-ranked middle schools that consistently produce a large number of hardworking, advanced STEM students, and FCPS proudly mentions them in the TJ offers news releases.

My kid attends Carson and will be applying for TJ next year. We are upper middle class and have been able to provide them with math competition classes, STEM extra curriculars, and STEM camps because they enjoy them. I would expect that their STEM resume looks better than a FARMs kid from Poe who is interested in STEM and a strong student but does not have the same access to extra-curricular activities. I don't have a problem with the new admission system making sure that kid from Poe has a chance to attend TJ even if he is starting with less of a STEM base then my kid. The kid from Poe shouldn't be penalized because his parents couldn't afford the same opportunities we could.

There are ways to tweak the current admissions process that would improve the selection process. Increase the GPA to 3.75 and require all Honors classes. Math classes should be given a weight. 1 point for Algebra 2, .5 points for Geometry. That would mean that the more advanced math kids at schools like Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run would be more likely to be in the top 1.5% and at the top of the general pool while not penalizing the kid at Poe who didn't have the same opportunities to accelerate in math.

But TJ is a public school that should be available to all the kids in our area if they meet the criteria. The old system favored kids whose parents could pay for enrichment. Adding the quota for each school opens the school to additional kids and there is nothing wrong with that.

Agreed. Also: the old system required parents to pay $100 to even take the exam. $100 is a lot of money for people to pay for an application to a high school they probably won’t get into. That’s where a lot of people will say: you were able to buy the test- because you were able to not just buy sample test questions or enrich, the test itself was expensive to begin with.

When the new system rolled out, they were going to make it a lottery, which I completely opposed and argued against on this forum. After they modified it, I have been advocating for them to keep it because it isn’t based on race. It is based on geography and merit. Raising the GPA is a good idea but the current system now is still way better than the old system. The same number of Asians are going into the school. And now we have more kids going to Princeton than in years before.

I would also like to mention that the new Principal is also Asian and seems to truly care about making sure the kids aren’t burning out and having the parents trust the process- while raising the schools academic index. So it seems to me that a lot of the parents who are complaining about the new system are of the same vein as our AG Miyares or just haven’t been really looking at the data.

Removing the $100 fee was a great idea, everything else was stupid and racist.

The first class under the new system saw a 120 point drop in PSAT score. The drop in student quality is not imagined. The reason for the change was racially driven

PP here. Also Asian.

The PSAT is given sophomore year and for the first class under the new system, it was given in Fall of 2022. That was shortly after the pandemic, and also after the first class also had their first full year back in school as freshman as TJ.

To blame the new admissions system on the drop in national merit semifinalists is not looking at history correctly. You and I will both agree that changing the TJ admissions during the pandemic was one of the shadiest things the SB could ever do. But blaming the drop on just the admissions and not looking at how the whole county handled school closures because of Trump and Covid is absurd. Because remember- schools closed under Trump. The world shut down under Trump. So don’t assume that it’s just the admissions. Lots of those kids also lost family members and dealt with the trauma of Covid and the online abuse of people like you, claiming they aren’t worthy enough.

Then why was TJ the ONLY school to see this sort of drop? None of the other FCPS schools saw this sort of drop. None of the science schools in NYC saw this sort of drop.

Was TJ the only school affected by COVID? And the PSAT NMSF are relative to all the other kids taking the test as 11th graders that year.

But also, if you had kids in school at all… you would know that kids were not adjusting well to in person education. You would remember the increase of cyberbullying and how phones were uncontrolled. It was only recently (like this year) FCPS banned phones in the classroom. That first year back was chaotic. The second year wasn’t much better. It was last year that teachers said kids were getting better. 2023-2024.

And TJ was not unique in this. EVERY school had similar issues.

If you think gifted kids were not on their phones or didn’t have issues with digital distraction as a result of school closure- well, you either don’t have kids or your logic is deeply flawed. It also suggests that your memory of what happened during those years is so hyper fixated on the admissions that you forget- The GOP effed up the country. And that any war cry they pick up to get the Asian vote is because you have forgotten the deeply effed up things that also affected test scores.

And in your unflawed logic, why didn't this affect anyone outside of TJ like this?

Btw- that first new admissions class is sending a grad to Oxford. And five to Princeton. Usually we only send 2 to Princeton and none to Oxford. And the Oxford student is Asian. Some of the parents are upset that their kids aren’t going where they assumed TJ would just send them to, but they are all thrilled their kids aren’t going to a good college and a bunch of them got full rides.

But hey….. keep screaming that GOP race baiting drivel here.

Dismissing legitimate concerns with really bad logic and calling their concerns GOP drivel is the reason why trump won. People like you are why trump won.

I just checked the school quality reports- and lots of FCPS high schools had issues the 2022-2023 year with their students- in particular their minority students.

https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

You made a generalization. But I checked- TJ was not the only school with a dip.

I will also mention that Youngkin is to blame for a lot of the issues in 2022-2023.

https://www.veanea.org/vea-challenges-administration-spin-on-sol-test-results/

Things are getting fixed but let’s be clear- I am bringing receipts here. It was a statewide dumpster fire because that happened because of Youngkin- a Trumpster who got voted in because schools were closed and because Terry supported teachers and there was that Loudoun county kid that triggered the whole trans-hysteria in NoVA.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/teen-accused-of-sexual-assaults-in-2-virginia-high-schools/2831314/

https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2023/10/school-bathroom-sexual-assault-victim-files-30m-lawsuit-against-loudoun-co-school-board/

The school systems are adjusting. They are still great. But our federal funding is being completely drained so maybe stop focusing on TJ and start focusing on your base school?

What receipts?

Who else had PSAT scores drop anything close to 120 points?

You are pointing to some SOL scores that drifted down at some schools and ignoring the fact that they plummetted at TJ.

FCPS does not suffer from a federal funding issue. We never got a lot of federal funds because we are rich. The federal funds tend to go to poorer districts and they should.

Stop trying to make excuses for racism because you think you can tell the difference between good racisma nd bad racism. There is no such thing as good racism.

Who else saw FRM #s change so significantly?

Do you know how low their test scores have to be for 25% of the population to drag down the average by 120 points? If all else remained equal, the poor kids would have to average under 1000 on the PSAT to drag down the average by 120 points.

I know you are trying to make yourself right but you are not fooling anyone, not even yourself. You know that the new admissions process led to a less qualified class.
Stop trying to blame the poor kids.

I'm not blaming anyone, just pointing out the facts: the economic distribution of TJ students has shifted. Given that standardized testing scores are correlated to family income, we should expect test scores to shift as well.

First of all, the increase in FRM kids cannot explain the drop unless those FRM kids are scoring below average PSAT results, so it's not just the FRM kids.
Secondly, we aren't doing them any favors by putting them in highly competitive environments they aren't prepared for.

By drawing kids from all MSs across the county there will be a shift in income, beyond FRM #s.

There are also significantly fewer admits from private schools.