SSL Hours for Religious Activities and the First Amendment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s important to keep in mind that the MCPS policy has to align with Maryland’s guidelines for SSL. Since we’re the only state to have a SSL requirement, any challenge would have to go to the state. It represents a choice the state made. There are other public school districts which require SSL hours that do not have some such limitations on connections to religious activities.
However, like many have said, the purpose of the SSL program may not be well served by the way it is done, and would be best discontinued.

Are we really the only state with an SSL requirement? That's surprising to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

These don't count:
* helping with Sunday School


That is unacceptable. My DD has gone back to her elementary school and helped the teachers out with various tasks. She has also volunteered in the Media Center, etc.

What is the difference? Helping out an MCPS teacher or helping out a Sunday School teacher. Both should be allowed. Or neither should be allowed. If anything, the Sunday School teacher is likely an unpaid volunteer, whereas the MCPS teacher is a paid individual.

You can't be this dense. Elementary schools enroll anyone. Sunday School enrolls members of a particular faith. Therefore service in an elementary school is for the wider community. Service at Sunday School is for a narrow group.

If you want your kid to volunteer at Sunday School, nothing is stopping you. Please just have her do it if she likes it -- maybe she'll get a good college essay out of the experience. It just doesn't count for SSL requirements. It is incredibly easy to get 75 hours -- something like 30 or 40 of them you get by just showing up for class in 6th through 9th grade. If your kid can't find a way to do another 35 hours of service to the wider community over the course of 7 years of middle and high school, that's on you.

Elementary schools enroll everyone. Basketball teams only enroll those who choose to join and pay. Therefore, service to an elementary school benefits the wider community, but service as a coaching assistant to a youth program only benefits the narrow group that chooses to join the basketball league.

And yet, MCPS allows SSL hours for one type of “narrow” service and not another.

Sure, kids could do religious volunteering on their own time without ssl credit, but your kid could do what you consider community wide volunteering on their own time without credit too.

This.

My kid has gotten all sorts of sports-related SSL hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

And as explained above, that limitation may not be legal, especially since what you call “proselytizing” could as easily (and probably more accurately) be described as helping teach/tutor religious subjects, just as people earn SSL hours for teaching/tutoring secular subjects and sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[quote=Anonymous)

Are we really the only state with an SSL requirement? That's surprising to me.

I missed DCPS. They require 100 hours. Otherwise, no other state. Some individual school districts though.

[Anonymous]

As long as you guys are okay with kids getting SSL hours for volunteering for the Satanic Temple, fine. If one religion is allowed then they all have to be. If Scientologists decide that washing Tom Cruise’s feet or boat or whatever is service those hours gotta count. If the Satanic Temple decides that standing at abortion clinics yelling at pro-life protesters is their version of helping at Sunday school then it is. You don’t get to judge what’s worthy in one religion and not others, so it’s all or nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

And as explained above, that limitation may not be legal, especially since what you call “proselytizing” could as easily (and probably more accurately) be described as helping teach/tutor religious subjects, just as people earn SSL hours for teaching/tutoring secular subjects and sports.

Regardless, it's still incorrect to state, as the PP I replied to did, that kids "can't get SSL hours through their church." Even now they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

And as explained above, that limitation may not be legal, especially since what you call “proselytizing” could as easily (and probably more accurately) be described as helping teach/tutor religious subjects, just as people earn SSL hours for teaching/tutoring secular subjects and sports.

Regardless, it's still incorrect to state, as the PP I replied to did, that kids "can't get SSL hours through their church." Even now they can.

+1 And if the "genius" OP is convinced that the current set up is unconstitutional, they can use their legal skills to try to fight this in court rather than spamming DCUM repeatedly.

[Anonymous]

My kid's school just sent out this SSL opportunity for this Saturday, March 15 in case anyone is looking for a non-church based option.

From the Q&A our school sent:

Q. Will Maryland residents be able to get one-on-one, step-by-step help from FreeState legal representatives for their name change/gender marker change during the clinic if they bring their birth certificate or state-issued ID and a Maryland address where they can receive court-ordered mail, even without registering in advance?

Yes.

Q. Will Maryland residents who are not ready to go through legal name change/gender marker change processes be able to ask FreeState legal representatives questions about these legal processes or other available referrals or resources during the clinic, including minors under 18? Individuals 13 and older are legally permitted to be in the library unattended, and teens under 18 have expressed interest in this event.

Yes.

https://mcpl.libnet.info/event/13050104

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

But they can’t get ssl hours for playing with toddlers in the church basement while their parents attend mass—yet they can get SSL hours for “volunteering” at Olney’s Field of Screams which is a for-profit venture that benefits a wealthy guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

But they can’t get ssl hours for playing with toddlers in the church basement while their parents attend mass—yet they can get SSL hours for “volunteering” at Olney’s Field of Screams which is a for-profit venture that benefits a wealthy guy.

If it were purely playing with toddlers, it would probably be ok. If their were age appropriate kids services or kids religious education, that wouldn’t be ok under the current policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

But they can’t get ssl hours for playing with toddlers in the church basement while their parents attend mass—yet they can get SSL hours for “volunteering” at Olney’s Field of Screams which is a for-profit venture that benefits a wealthy guy.

If it were purely playing with toddlers, it would probably be ok. If their were age appropriate kids services or kids religious education, that wouldn’t be ok under the current policy.

I think you are missing the point point: why can kids get ssl hours by volunteering at for-profit business ventures?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

But they can’t get ssl hours for playing with toddlers in the church basement while their parents attend mass—yet they can get SSL hours for “volunteering” at Olney’s Field of Screams which is a for-profit venture that benefits a wealthy guy.

If it were purely playing with toddlers, it would probably be ok. If their were age appropriate kids services or kids religious education, that wouldn’t be ok under the current policy.

I think you are missing the point point: why can kids get ssl hours by volunteering at for-profit business ventures?

They can’t. They have to be non profit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

But they can’t get ssl hours for playing with toddlers in the church basement while their parents attend mass—yet they can get SSL hours for “volunteering” at Olney’s Field of Screams which is a for-profit venture that benefits a wealthy guy.

If it were purely playing with toddlers, it would probably be ok. If their were age appropriate kids services or kids religious education, that wouldn’t be ok under the current policy.

I think you are missing the point point: why can kids get ssl hours by volunteering at for-profit business ventures?

They can’t. They have to be non profit

Then how are kids getting SSL hours at field of screams?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone should file a lawsuit.

It seems wrong that teens can get SSL hours at a for-profit business like Olney’s Field of Screams yet can’t get SSL hours through their church.

As explained in the post above, they can get SSL hours through their church. Just not for proselytizing.

But they can’t get ssl hours for playing with toddlers in the church basement while their parents attend mass—yet they can get SSL hours for “volunteering” at Olney’s Field of Screams which is a for-profit venture that benefits a wealthy guy.

If it were purely playing with toddlers, it would probably be ok. If their were age appropriate kids services or kids religious education, that wouldn’t be ok under the current policy.

I think you are missing the point point: why can kids get ssl hours by volunteering at for-profit business ventures?

They can’t. They have to be non profit

Then how are kids getting SSL hours at field of screams?

They do not appear on the approved organization list so I’m not sure why you believe students are getting volunteer hours volunteering for that entity.