UK and EU schools - Is your KID picking a UK or EU school over a US school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am British, now living in the U.SA but graduated from University of London(Queen Mary College)

Can someone who has studied at both USA high school and UK university, please speak on their experience going from multchoice type questions (my USA kids mainly have multiple choice style questions for schoolwork at US public school) -vs- the essay style questions UK uni's use at end of year course exams (no multiple choice allowed).

Was it easy to make the transition in the two assessment styles?

My two kids went to dual degree programs where they did two years at a US college and two years at a UK university.

So experienced the difference between multiple choice, many graded assignment vs mid-term and final essays. One child did better at US college other did better at UK university.

Take away is if the kid is a good writer and more self-motivated they can adapt to UK style, if not it is a harder transition but still doable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In at Durham and St. Andrew’s, waiting on King’s. Staying in America…

Are the admission decisions rolling?

Similar situation.
How did you make that decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For US parents whose kids applied to both US and UK/EU universities.

If you kid planning on going abroad? If so, which US schools are you giving up offers to go abroad?

DS is going to Oxford. Was accepted at Stanford.

Oh, my. This is a big mistake. Like picking Cornell over Stanford…

I dont have a dog in the fight….but since the OP never mentioned the program, one can only assume you are comparing universities. Show me one World Ranking where Stanford is ranked higher than Oxford….

+1

Chances of a top, genius unhooked American kid getting into Stanford: 2% (give or take 1 percentage point).
Chances of a top, genius UK kid getting into Oxford: 60% (give or take 10 percentage points).
Chances that UK apologists will protest this because they are nostalgic for Old Europe: 100%.

Sure, Stanford rejects a much higher percentage of applicants. But keep in mind that Oxford applications are limited, bc 1) students must choose to apply to Oxford OR Cambridge, and apply to both (whereas, Stanford students can and do apply to MIT and Harvard as well), and 2) UK students are only allowed to apply to five universities in total, which discourages applications to Oxbridge from many students who rationally assess their admissions chances as low. The denominator for Oxford is much lower.

Chances that UK apologists will protest this because they are nostalgic for Old Europe: 100%.

[Anonymous]

No, we like exploration and choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In at Durham and St. Andrew’s, waiting on King’s. Staying in America…

Are the admission decisions rolling?

Similar situation.
How did you make that decision?

The benefit of Durham and St. Andrew’s is that they are “target” schools with the admissions percentage (for a certain tier of applicant) of an American safety.

Did not need to compare to other American targets (or may have been tempted, especially for a 3-year at Durham) because got into American reaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For US parents whose kids applied to both US and UK/EU universities.

If you kid planning on going abroad? If so, which US schools are you giving up offers to go abroad?

Parent of Junior here, the last few weeks have put UK schools back in the mix.

Three years to get a degree, less expensive tuition, out of the US/out of reach of Trump/Elon hands. Even with airfare considered, cost for three years will come out less or as a wash depending on which US school we’re knocking it against.

We’ll see what happens - I’m happy we have 6+ to watch this play out and understand what it all means before applications have to start going in vs current Seniors and their families. I feel for them.

[Anonymous]

6+ months* ^^^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For US parents whose kids applied to both US and UK/EU universities.

If you kid planning on going abroad? If so, which US schools are you giving up offers to go abroad?

DS is going to Oxford. Was accepted at Stanford.

Oh, my. This is a big mistake. Like picking Cornell over Stanford…

I dont have a dog in the fight….but since the OP never mentioned the program, one can only assume you are comparing universities. Show me one World Ranking where Stanford is ranked higher than Oxford….

+1

Chances of a top, genius unhooked American kid getting into Stanford: 2% (give or take 1 percentage point).
Chances of a top, genius UK kid getting into Oxford: 60% (give or take 10 percentage points).
Chances that UK apologists it will protest this because they are nostalgic for Old Europe: 100%.

DP: "Unhooked" is the key word here. Holistic admission makes things more difficult for unhooked geniuses in the US than in the UK. Are you saying that's a good think? Different systems have different priorities. Oxford gives zero preference to athletes, children of donors, chess champions, etc. Some will argue that is a bug, others think that is a feature.

But I take your point that Stanford rejects a much higher percentage of applicants than Oxford does

No, you missed the point. Kid is an unhooked genius and is a top applicant, that is, has fantastic extracurriculars to boot. In other words, the best possible student for American holistic admissions (barring recruited athlete, first gen, and geographic diversity, which the UK also has the equivalent of).

Yes, I am saying that kid still has only a 2% admissions chance. That’s how hard it is. If you don’t believe me, it is because you are a Brit and don’t know Stanford or are from a previous generation when Oxford and Stanford could be in the same breadth.

The best UK student only has to be a genius and will get into Oxford. Easy. It’s simply not as competitive, period.

[Anonymous]

You do have to take into account curricular inflexibility as well. For example, if an American kid has already done multivariate and linear algebra in high school, the kid would have to repeat that work at Oxbridge and essentially waste the first year. Same for foreign languages not taught at Oxbridge from scratch. Already taken Russian in high school or as a DE? Start over at Oxbridge…

The true UK geniuses would therefore be far better off attending college in the US, which would start them at their actual level.

Of course, they wouldn’t get in, even with excellent extracurriculars, so they attend Oxbridge as a back up. Damned by both systems, unfortunately…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For US parents whose kids applied to both US and UK/EU universities.

If you kid planning on going abroad? If so, which US schools are you giving up offers to go abroad?

DS is going to Oxford. Was accepted at Stanford.

Oh, my. This is a big mistake. Like picking Cornell over Stanford…

I dont have a dog in the fight….but since the OP never mentioned the program, one can only assume you are comparing universities. Show me one World Ranking where Stanford is ranked higher than Oxford….

+1

Chances of a top, genius unhooked American kid getting into Stanford: 2% (give or take 1 percentage point).
Chances of a top, genius UK kid getting into Oxford: 60% (give or take 10 percentage points).
Chances that UK apologists it will protest this because they are nostalgic for Old Europe: 100%.

DP: "Unhooked" is the key word here. Holistic admission makes things more difficult for unhooked geniuses in the US than in the UK. Are you saying that's a good think? Different systems have different priorities. Oxford gives zero preference to athletes, children of donors, chess champions, etc. Some will argue that is a bug, others think that is a feature.

But I take your point that Stanford rejects a much higher percentage of applicants than Oxford does

No, you missed the point. Kid is an unhooked genius and is a top applicant, that is, has fantastic extracurriculars to boot. In other words, the best possible student for American holistic admissions (barring recruited athlete, first gen, and geographic diversity, which the UK also has the equivalent of).

Yes, I am saying that kid still has only a 2% admissions chance. That’s how hard it is. If you don’t believe me, it is because you are a Brit and don’t know Stanford or are from a previous generation when Oxford and Stanford could be in the same breadth.

The best UK student only has to be a genius and will get into Oxford. Easy. It’s simply not as competitive, period.

Actually, I get exactly what you are saying and I agree with you: Stanford is MUCH more competitive.

But I don't agree that those 'fantastic ECs' are anywhere as meaningful or real as you suspect they are. Most, in fact, are meaningless, and have limited (if any) impact on the intellectual life of the university community. I think the selection process is murky and suspect. I think if Stanford threw out their admitted class and took the next level below the school would be just as vibrant and impressive.

But given the massive numbers who apply to Stanford, they have to have some decision mechanism for selection and, given grade inflation and the relatively low difficulty of US standardized tests, they can't make that selection on academic criteria alone. I don't think the emphasis on non-academic accomplishments makes much sense, but it's probably as good as many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You do have to take into account curricular inflexibility as well. For example, if an American kid has already done multivariate and linear algebra in high school, the kid would have to repeat that work at Oxbridge and essentially waste the first year. Same for foreign languages not taught at Oxbridge from scratch. Already taken Russian in high school or as a DE? Start over at Oxbridge…

The true UK geniuses would therefore be far better off attending college in the US, which would start them at their actual level.

Of course, they wouldn’t get in, even with excellent extracurriculars, so they attend Oxbridge as a back up. Damned by both systems, unfortunately…

That’s not true at all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For US parents whose kids applied to both US and UK/EU universities.

If you kid planning on going abroad? If so, which US schools are you giving up offers to go abroad?

DS is going to Oxford. Was accepted at Stanford.

Oh, my. This is a big mistake. Like picking Cornell over Stanford…

I dont have a dog in the fight….but since the OP never mentioned the program, one can only assume you are comparing universities. Show me one World Ranking where Stanford is ranked higher than Oxford….

+1

Chances of a top, genius unhooked American kid getting into Stanford: 2% (give or take 1 percentage point).
Chances of a top, genius UK kid getting into Oxford: 60% (give or take 10 percentage points).
Chances that UK apologists will protest this because they are nostalgic for Old Europe: 100%.

I’m British and definitely not a UK apologist and you’re right - that’s kind of the whole point. The admissions process at UK universities is not holistic, it is designed to find and admit top genius kids. Oxford doesn’t care about your sports and theater and nonprofit or whatever.

+1

As another poster remarked, some will look at this as a bug, others as a feature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am British, now living in the U.SA but graduated from University of London(Queen Mary College)

Can someone who has studied at both USA high school and UK university, please speak on their experience going from multchoice type questions (my USA kids mainly have multiple choice style questions for schoolwork at US public school) -vs- the essay style questions UK uni's use at end of year course exams (no multiple choice allowed).

Was it easy to make the transition in the two assessment styles?

I went to HS in the US and ended up at LSE to study Econ. It all depends on what kind of high school your kids go to. I was blessed to have been able to go to an elite private school in the Dallas area. I did not have ONE multiple choice test while I was there. It was very rigorous and it prepared me very well for LSE. My English and Asian friends in my first year similar stereotypical view of Americans, thinking I was going to crash and burn…as most Brits assume the typical HS education in the US is below par….maybe it is. But I graduated with a first from LSE and have been in the PE industry now for 2 decades back in the US. My son is now at Oxford studying Economics. He went to the same high school….no issues at all with rigor at Oxford.

BTW,I wasn’t the one talking about this. I’m the previous poster from TExas who went to LSE. Since you were there for your masters, I do have to say that while I also thought it wasn’t difficult, it is known thing that some of the top undergrad offerings at LSE are MUCH MUCH more difficult to get in than their master’s degrees….half of people there in their masters would have never got in certain undergrad programs to begin with ….BSc Econometrics & Mathemarical Econ being one of them… so lets not compare apples to oranges….

I went to a top private US school (never had a multiple choice test except SAT and part of the AP exams - what are you talking about??), a top ten US college, and then did a master's at LSE.

LSE was the easiest school I went to. I had a few 3 to 5 page essays throughout the year, but most of them did not count towards my grades (one class did).

Then at the end of the year I had three exams for three classes and had to write a 10,000 word dissertation.

I had the entire summer to write the dissertation, which was the length of a paper I would write undergrad all the time, like in a seminar class.

The exams were cake. I say this as someone who is not particularly great at exams.

We had, I think, something like 15 weeks of classes. Each week covered one topic. On the exam, you had to answer three essay questions. But there were a dozen questions, one for 12 weeks/topics (3 topics/weeks would not make it onto the exam). And you only had to answer three! So the strategy was to learn four topics/weeks really really well. Hope that three of those show up on the exam, but in case they don't, learn two other topics/weeks somewhat well. Then learn one or two other topics a little bit, enough not to fail. The exams were three hours and you were expected to fill maybe one exam book per question, if that.

It was SOO much easier and less work than my US high school and my private liberal arts college.

You have to be pretty independent and learn most of the stuff on your own.

If your kid is going to an American high school where they are primarily tested in multiple choice, you need to get them the heck out of that school or into harder classes or dual enrollment or something. That's pathetic. Even AP exams have essays. I had zero multiple choice exams in high school other than SAT and parts of the APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am British, now living in the U.SA but graduated from University of London(Queen Mary College)

Can someone who has studied at both USA high school and UK university, please speak on their experience going from multchoice type questions (my USA kids mainly have multiple choice style questions for schoolwork at US public school) -vs- the essay style questions UK uni's use at end of year course exams (no multiple choice allowed).

Was it easy to make the transition in the two assessment styles?

I went to HS in the US and ended up at LSE to study Econ. It all depends on what kind of high school your kids go to. I was blessed to have been able to go to an elite private school in the Dallas area. I did not have ONE multiple choice test while I was there. It was very rigorous and it prepared me very well for LSE. My English and Asian friends in my first year similar stereotypical view of Americans, thinking I was going to crash and burn…as most Brits assume the typical HS education in the US is below par….maybe it is. But I graduated with a first from LSE and have been in the PE industry now for 2 decades back in the US. My son is now at Oxford studying Economics. He went to the same high school….no issues at all with rigor at Oxford.

I went to a top private US school (never had a multiple choice test except SAT and part of the AP exams - what are you talking about??), a top ten US college, and then did a master's at LSE.

LSE was the easiest school I went to. I had a few 3 to 5 page essays throughout the year, but most of them did not count towards my grades (one class did).

Then at the end of the year I had three exams for three classes and had to write a 10,000 word dissertation.

I had the entire summer to write the dissertation, which was the length of a paper I would write undergrad all the time, like in a seminar class.

The exams were cake. I say this as someone who is not particularly great at exams.

We had, I think, something like 15 weeks of classes. Each week covered one topic. On the exam, you had to answer three essay questions. But there were a dozen questions, one for 12 weeks/topics (3 topics/weeks would not make it onto the exam). And you only had to answer three! So the strategy was to learn four topics/weeks really really well. Hope that three of those show up on the exam, but in case they don't, learn two other topics/weeks somewhat well. Then learn one or two other topics a little bit, enough not to fail. The exams were three hours and you were expected to fill maybe one exam book per question, if that.

It was SOO much easier and less work than my US high school and my private liberal arts college.

You have to be pretty independent and learn most of the stuff on your own.

If your kid is going to an American high school where they are primarily tested in multiple choice, you need to get them the heck out of that school or into harder classes or dual enrollment or something. That's pathetic. Even AP exams have essays. I had zero multiple choice exams in high school other than SAT and parts of the APs.

Somehow the quotes got entangled…. BTW,I wasn’t the one talking about this. I’m the previous poster from TExas who went to LSE. Since you were there for your masters, I do have to say that while I also thought it wasn’t difficult, it is known thing that some of the top undergrad offerings at LSE are MUCH MUCH more difficult to get in than their master’s degrees….half of people there in their masters would have never got in certain undergrad programs to begin with ….BSc Econometrics & Mathemarical Econ being one of them… so lets not compare apples to oranges….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am British, now living in the U.SA but graduated from University of London(Queen Mary College)

Can someone who has studied at both USA high school and UK university, please speak on their experience going from multchoice type questions (my USA kids mainly have multiple choice style questions for schoolwork at US public school) -vs- the essay style questions UK uni's use at end of year course exams (no multiple choice allowed).

Was it easy to make the transition in the two assessment styles?

I went to HS in the US and ended up at LSE to study Econ. It all depends on what kind of high school your kids go to. I was blessed to have been able to go to an elite private school in the Dallas area. I did not have ONE multiple choice test while I was there. It was very rigorous and it prepared me very well for LSE. My English and Asian friends in my first year similar stereotypical view of Americans, thinking I was going to crash and burn…as most Brits assume the typical HS education in the US is below par….maybe it is. But I graduated with a first from LSE and have been in the PE industry now for 2 decades back in the US. My son is now at Oxford studying Economics. He went to the same high school….no issues at all with rigor at Oxford.

I went to a top private US school (never had a multiple choice test except SAT and part of the AP exams - what are you talking about??), a top ten US college, and then did a master's at LSE.

LSE was the easiest school I went to. I had a few 3 to 5 page essays throughout the year, but most of them did not count towards my grades (one class did).

Then at the end of the year I had three exams for three classes and had to write a 10,000 word dissertation.

I had the entire summer to write the dissertation, which was the length of a paper I would write undergrad all the time, like in a seminar class.

The exams were cake. I say this as someone who is not particularly great at exams.

We had, I think, something like 15 weeks of classes. Each week covered one topic. On the exam, you had to answer three essay questions. But there were a dozen questions, one for 12 weeks/topics (3 topics/weeks would not make it onto the exam). And you only had to answer three! So the strategy was to learn four topics/weeks really really well. Hope that three of those show up on the exam, but in case they don't, learn two other topics/weeks somewhat well. Then learn one or two other topics a little bit, enough not to fail. The exams were three hours and you were expected to fill maybe one exam book per question, if that.

It was SOO much easier and less work than my US high school and my private liberal arts college.

You have to be pretty independent and learn most of the stuff on your own.

If your kid is going to an American high school where they are primarily tested in multiple choice, you need to get them the heck out of that school or into harder classes or dual enrollment or something. That's pathetic. Even AP exams have essays. I had zero multiple choice exams in high school other than SAT and parts of the APs.

Somehow the quotes got entangled…. BTW,I wasn’t the one talking about this. I’m the previous poster from TExas who went to LSE. Since you were there for your masters, I do have to say that while I also thought it wasn’t difficult, it is known thing that some of the top undergrad offerings at LSE are MUCH MUCH more difficult to get in than their master’s degrees….half of people there in their masters would have never got in certain undergrad programs to begin with ….BSc Econometrics & Mathemarical Econ being one of them… so lets not compare apples to oranges….

DP. This is true. But also some of the masters are more difficult to get into than others (econ/econ and math/accounting/finance versus some of the politics ones, for example).

And the grad programs that the PP described are much more of a “get out what you put in” deal. Yes, you can pass without massive effort, but that’s not really the point. The point is they provide you with all of the academic research, methods, and frameworks for understanding where your subject currently is/has been. How deep you want to go is up to you, but if you really dive in, you come out with a very strong background in your (academic) field.