How to fix our crisis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

I agree about not guaranteeing a HS diploma - we should force more kids to repeat grades as they do in France, for example.

But I am not convinced every HS grad needs calc. How about starting with the knowledge to pay taxes and killer arithmetic and algebra skills?

Why do people always put the responsibility of taxes on the school? That’s a parenting issue (and a reading skills issue, it is incredibly easy to file unless you’re obscenely wealthy or own a business). I do not think schools should be a ”Parental Failure 101” drop off. Also, at our local high school there are two personal finance classes, and the instructors emphasize that students say they want “life skills” until it comes time to actually do the work and learn. Many kids do not care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why our family chose IB. American education sucks.

Wise choice. I wish I had realized that before my kids started high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More people should be failed out of high school and directed somewhere else. As someone not born in the US, calculus being treated as some ridiculously insane requirement for 17 year olds is a really embarrassing reflection of this country. Sports are treated more seriously than education in the US

Do all 17 yr olds in your country go to HS? In many countries, free schooling ends around age 13. HS is only for the top students.

My home country is like that, and it makes sense. I don’t really think you need to continue school if you don’t care about it nor find it tedious as many in this thread seem to. Plus, it’s not like it bars you from college. You still get a diploma and can go to university!

So, you're not from the U.S.? Many kids have no idea what they want to do at the age of 13. It's ridiculously short-sighted to group kids into two separate tracks at that age and I'm very glad we don't do that here. High school education is for everyone. The decision to go on to college or not is one that can be made after earning a high school degree.

And no one on this thread has said or even implied that school is "tedious." On the contrary, many of us advocating the humanities *love* school. You seem to think that only STEM has value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

I agree about not guaranteeing a HS diploma - we should force more kids to repeat grades as they do in France, for example.

But I am not convinced every HS grad needs calc. How about starting with the knowledge to pay taxes and killer arithmetic and algebra skills?

+1
This is what's needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

Any sort of business, sociology/anthropology/area studies, non-Newtonian physics, many schools lacking in CS still, philosophy, hell education itself (I promise you that more students will need to be able to teach someone something effectively in their career than half the things we force them to learn).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As much as we talk about the difficulty of college admissions, American high school students are not learning enough content to compete in a global market. The SAT is not rigorous and barely tests at a pre-calculus level. Our students are dropping out of STEM programs like flies, and students aren’t graduating with the skills needed to compete in the entry level market. What reforms should we make?

None of this is true

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More people should be failed out of high school and directed somewhere else. As someone not born in the US, calculus being treated as some ridiculously insane requirement for 17 year olds is a really embarrassing reflection of this country. Sports are treated more seriously than education in the US

Do all 17 yr olds in your country go to HS? In many countries, free schooling ends around age 13. HS is only for the top students.

My home country is like that, and it makes sense. I don’t really think you need to continue school if you don’t care about it nor find it tedious as many in this thread seem to. Plus, it’s not like it bars you from college. You still get a diploma and can go to university!

So, you're not from the U.S.? Many kids have no idea what they want to do at the age of 13. It's ridiculously short-sighted to group kids into two separate tracks at that age and I'm very glad we don't do that here. High school education is for everyone. The decision to go on to college or not is one that can be made after earning a high school degree.

And no one on this thread has said or even implied that school is "tedious." On the contrary, many of us advocating the humanities *love* school. You seem to think that only STEM has value.

So because I’m an immigrant, you’re just going to assume that my country doesn’t have the same kind of kids as yours with the same obliviousness? It’s the unwillingness to educate yourself and thoughtfully engage with ideas when your system clearly doesn’t work that blows my mind every time. Also, I’m a parent. I have high school and colleged age children. It’s not like I’m in this forum for nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

Any sort of business, sociology/anthropology/area studies, non-Newtonian physics, many schools lacking in CS still, philosophy, hell education itself (I promise you that more students will need to be able to teach someone something effectively in their career than half the things we force them to learn).

You're saying those degree programs "aren't represented at all" in universities? Of course they are! I'm really not following you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

I agree about not guaranteeing a HS diploma - we should force more kids to repeat grades as they do in France, for example.

But I am not convinced every HS grad needs calc. How about starting with the knowledge to pay taxes and killer arithmetic and algebra skills?

Why do people always put the responsibility of taxes on the school? That’s a parenting issue (and a reading skills issue, it is incredibly easy to file unless you’re obscenely wealthy or own a business). I do not think schools should be a ”Parental Failure 101” drop off. Also, at our local high school there are two personal finance classes, and the instructors emphasize that students say they want “life skills” until it comes time to actually do the work and learn. Many kids do not care.

+1, I guarantee you the students will not listen to Financial planning lectures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

How ridiculous. Unless one is going into a STEM field, calculus is completely unnecessary - and useless.

Not only that, but calculus is taken at much higher rates now than 20 years ago, yet according to OP, US education is in decline in that time. Meanwhile, colleges are reporting that many students are arriving on campus with an unwillingness to read long, complex texts and an inability to write at a college level.

Whatever is ailing the US education system, it cannot be fixed with universal calculus.

+100
If anything, remedial reading and writing instruction for those needing it, and more advanced humanities classes for others.

Yes! And remedial arithmetic! I am so tired of watching cashiers stumble as they try to figure out how to make change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More people should be failed out of high school and directed somewhere else. As someone not born in the US, calculus being treated as some ridiculously insane requirement for 17 year olds is a really embarrassing reflection of this country. Sports are treated more seriously than education in the US

Do all 17 yr olds in your country go to HS? In many countries, free schooling ends around age 13. HS is only for the top students.

My home country is like that, and it makes sense. I don’t really think you need to continue school if you don’t care about it nor find it tedious as many in this thread seem to. Plus, it’s not like it bars you from college. You still get a diploma and can go to university!

So, you're not from the U.S.? Many kids have no idea what they want to do at the age of 13. It's ridiculously short-sighted to group kids into two separate tracks at that age and I'm very glad we don't do that here. High school education is for everyone. The decision to go on to college or not is one that can be made after earning a high school degree.

And no one on this thread has said or even implied that school is "tedious." On the contrary, many of us advocating the humanities *love* school. You seem to think that only STEM has value.

So because I’m an immigrant, you’re just going to assume that my country doesn’t have the same kind of kids as yours with the same obliviousness? It’s the unwillingness to educate yourself and thoughtfully engage with ideas when your system clearly doesn’t work that blows my mind every time. Also, I’m a parent. I have high school and colleged age children. It’s not like I’m in this forum for nothing.

What?? Nothing you're saying makes sense. Also, since you're so critical of our education system here in the U.S., tell us what country you're from so we can critique it too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

Any sort of business, sociology/anthropology/area studies, non-Newtonian physics, many schools lacking in CS still, philosophy, hell education itself (I promise you that more students will need to be able to teach someone something effectively in their career than half the things we force them to learn).

You're saying those degree programs "aren't represented at all" in universities? Of course they are! I'm really not following you.

In high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Making calculus a graduation requirement and not guaranteeing a high school diploma would fix a ton of our issues

I agree about not guaranteeing a HS diploma - we should force more kids to repeat grades as they do in France, for example.

But I am not convinced every HS grad needs calc. How about starting with the knowledge to pay taxes and killer arithmetic and algebra skills?

Why do people always put the responsibility of taxes on the school? That’s a parenting issue (and a reading skills issue, it is incredibly easy to file unless you’re obscenely wealthy or own a business). I do not think schools should be a ”Parental Failure 101” drop off. Also, at our local high school there are two personal finance classes, and the instructors emphasize that students say they want “life skills” until it comes time to actually do the work and learn. Many kids do not care.

+1, I guarantee you the students will not listen to Financial planning lectures.

DP. My kids did. They learned a lot from those classes, in addition to my spouse and I teaching them about personal finances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop teaching so many courses. We could consolidate many ap English and history courses to a series of Humanities courses- literally call them Humanities 1, 2, and 3. Make them rigorous general education courses on US and global history, English Literature, and potentially add in some philosophy/sociology in the later coursework. Increase and normalize the “fast track” where Algebra 1 is taken in 8th grade across the country; then, by senior year have students choose between a project-based stats course or calc.

Stop making students take every class under the sun for elite colleges and have them tested across these two courses: Humanities and Math to free up space for whatever electives they want. If you wanna take Humanities, Calc 3, Physics, Bio, and Chem with a language, do it. If you wanna take Humanities, Stats, Latin, Advanced European history, do it. No reason why we have to take so many classes across the spectrum that we don’t care about.

+10! Why do we have so many required courses to get into decent colleges? Yes, the liberal arts matter, but there’s so many degree programs not represented at all.

Such as?

Any sort of business, sociology/anthropology/area studies, non-Newtonian physics, many schools lacking in CS still, philosophy, hell education itself (I promise you that more students will need to be able to teach someone something effectively in their career than half the things we force them to learn).

You're saying those degree programs "aren't represented at all" in universities? Of course they are! I'm really not following you.

In high school.

We don't have "degree programs" in high school.