Northwestern v UChicago

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^How do you get to be a top 10 institution without the brightest students??

This! Do you think that when they have kids who have done really well in high school applying such that they could fill their class twice over, they should select a class from the next academic tier of applicants? Nobody is coasting through high school with stellar grades and test scores without effort.

No, I disagree. There are a huge number of kids who have the scores and grades to do well. Probably 5 kids for every 1 spot at these schools.
Some universities preferentially choose the ones who also did bench science research during every summer of high school, had 2 school-year internships, founded a company that generated $10K in profits and are on the board of 6 non-profits. Others take the kids who were the soccer captain and the newspaper editor.

Both kids have the smarts for these institutions but #1 is a super grinder and #2 is not.

Vanderbilt is far more likely to take kid #2--they are known for their random admissions. Chicago also ends up taking kid #2 from many private high schools because from private schools they are a destination for the smart kids under the top 10% (the type B smart kids).

very true.
Our CCO said Vandy likes the smart kids who could be Homecoming Queen while working at Dairy Queen and captain of the softball team and #5 in the class (to give you an idea)....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NU parent here. NU used to be a place with a lot of really smart/serious students but also quite a few “ordinary” smart/social/athletic kids mixed in. As the acceptance rate has dwindled down to single digits, it seems like there are more of the former & fewer of the latter.

It’s much closer to the U of Chicago stereotype (serious academics, little fun) than it was 10+ years ago.

A lot of NU students have high school friends at U of Mich, & when they visit them in Ann Arbor they reportedly find a balanced mixture of brains & fun that they had hoped to find at NU.

Michigan alum with a current NU student and I agree with the above. For what it is worth, the NU admin is aware that there needs to be more social opportunities on campus since Evanston is not like Ann Arbor and doesn’t offer much in the way of the sports bars and student centric restaurants etc. They are currently building a really nice outdoor space on the back of Norris (student center) that will have a pub/restaurant for the students to go to as well as fire pits, etc all taking advantage of their amazing lakefront property. The whole campus is stunning and they clearly have a lot of money and are financially sound. My DC not a huge partier but they do have Greek life for those who want it. I think UChicago and NU both attract similar types of students nowadays so vibes are likely pretty similar but NU location can’t be beat!

when will this work be done?

from our private, the social/smart extroverted kids chose Duke, Cornell, Vanderbilt and Michigan OVER Northwestern last cycle. The kids that ended up at Northwestern that we knew are introverted - haven't been to a football game this year with no plans to attend.

I am surprised that fun kids would choose Cornell, especially after last year.

Duke, Vanderbilt and Michigan are not surprises though.

what happened last year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NU parent here. NU used to be a place with a lot of really smart/serious students but also quite a few “ordinary” smart/social/athletic kids mixed in. As the acceptance rate has dwindled down to single digits, it seems like there are more of the former & fewer of the latter.

It’s much closer to the U of Chicago stereotype (serious academics, little fun) than it was 10+ years ago.

A lot of NU students have high school friends at U of Mich, & when they visit them in Ann Arbor they reportedly find a balanced mixture of brains & fun that they had hoped to find at NU.

Michigan alum with a current NU student and I agree with the above. For what it is worth, the NU admin is aware that there needs to be more social opportunities on campus since Evanston is not like Ann Arbor and doesn’t offer much in the way of the sports bars and student centric restaurants etc. They are currently building a really nice outdoor space on the back of Norris (student center) that will have a pub/restaurant for the students to go to as well as fire pits, etc all taking advantage of their amazing lakefront property. +1The whole campus is stunning and they clearly have a lot of money and are financially sound. My DC not a huge partier but they do have Greek life for those who want it. I think UChicago and NU both attract similar types of students nowadays so vibes are likely pretty similar but NU location can’t be beat!

It's not about having more fire pits. it's about admitting students who aren't grinders!!!

This. I think they admit the wrong students too.

+3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NU parent here. NU used to be a place with a lot of really smart/serious students but also quite a few “ordinary” smart/social/athletic kids mixed in. As the acceptance rate has dwindled down to single digits, it seems like there are more of the former & fewer of the latter.

It’s much closer to the U of Chicago stereotype (serious academics, little fun) than it was 10+ years ago.

A lot of NU students have high school friends at U of Mich, & when they visit them in Ann Arbor they reportedly find a balanced mixture of brains & fun that they had hoped to find at NU.

Michigan alum with a current NU student and I agree with the above. For what it is worth, the NU admin is aware that there needs to be more social opportunities on campus since Evanston is not like Ann Arbor and doesn’t offer much in the way of the sports bars and student centric restaurants etc. They are currently building a really nice outdoor space on the back of Norris (student center) that will have a pub/restaurant for the students to go to as well as fire pits, etc all taking advantage of their amazing lakefront property. +1The whole campus is stunning and they clearly have a lot of money and are financially sound. My DC not a huge partier but they do have Greek life for those who want it. I think UChicago and NU both attract similar types of students nowadays so vibes are likely pretty similar but NU location can’t be beat!

It's not about having more fire pits. it's about admitting students who aren't grinders!!!

This. I think they admit the wrong students too.

+3

look at the pictures of their admissions officers on Instagram. That may reveal a lot about who is making these decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^How do you get to be a top 10 institution without the brightest students??

This! Do you think that when they have kids who have done really well in high school applying such that they could fill their class twice over, they should select a class from the next academic tier of applicants? Nobody is coasting through high school with stellar grades and test scores without effort.

No, I disagree. There are a huge number of kids who have the scores and grades to do well. Probably 5 kids for every 1 spot at these schools.
Some universities preferentially choose the ones who also did bench science research during every summer of high school, had 2 school-year internships, founded a company that generated $10K in profits and are on the board of 6 non-profits. Others take the kids who were the soccer captain and the newspaper editor.

Both kids have the smarts for these institutions but #1 is a super grinder and #2 is not.

Vanderbilt is far more likely to take kid #2--they are known for their random admissions. Chicago also ends up taking kid #2 from many private high schools because from private schools they are a destination for the smart kids under the top 10% (the type B smart kids).

The soccer captain who is killing his AP classes and scoring a 1580 on the SAT is not just phoning it in. He is also a “grinder”. I know because this is my son. He puts in a ton of time into his classes. He has many friends on his soccer team who truly do not but are great at athletics. They are not getting into either Chicago or NU - and they shouldn’t. The idea that there is this large cohort of T20- capable students who don’t put in any effort is just nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Northwestern, hands down.

Better career outcomes. Less obnoxious/insufferably pretentious students. More outgoing student body, even if marginally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^How do you get to be a top 10 institution without the brightest students??

This! Do you think that when they have kids who have done really well in high school applying such that they could fill their class twice over, they should select a class from the next academic tier of applicants? Nobody is coasting through high school with stellar grades and test scores without effort.

No, I disagree. There are a huge number of kids who have the scores and grades to do well. Probably 5 kids for every 1 spot at these schools.
Some universities preferentially choose the ones who also did bench science research during every summer of high school, had 2 school-year internships, founded a company that generated $10K in profits and are on the board of 6 non-profits. Others take the kids who were the soccer captain and the newspaper editor.

Both kids have the smarts for these institutions but #1 is a super grinder and #2 is not.

Vanderbilt is far more likely to take kid #2--they are known for their random admissions. Chicago also ends up taking kid #2 from many private high schools because from private schools they are a destination for the smart kids under the top 10% (the type B smart kids).

The soccer captain who is killing his AP classes and scoring a 1580 on the SAT is not just phoning it in. He is also a “grinder”. I know because this is my son. He puts in a ton of time into his classes. He has many friends on his soccer team who truly do not but are great at athletics. They are not getting into either Chicago or NU - and they shouldn’t. The idea that there is this large cohort of T20- capable students who don’t put in any effort is just nonsense.

I disagree completely. I have kids (twins) who have >1550 SATs, top grades and are sports captains but they also party (often to my chagrin) and they aren't grinders. They spend hours doing homework there is a huge difference between very smart kids who do well in school and those who sacrifice everything socially because they're playing the admissions grind game of spending their high school career working in labs, doing 17 internships, and basically developing the resume of a 35 year old.

You can be very smart and do very well in a challenging high school and not be a grinder.

[Anonymous]

Northwestern kids do seem fairly down to earth and kind with a variety of interests. Doesn’t seem like a toxic culture at all the way some Ivys and top 20 schools are described. They take a very multidisciplinary approach and lots of kids double major as such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^How do you get to be a top 10 institution without the brightest students??

This! Do you think that when they have kids who have done really well in high school applying such that they could fill their class twice over, they should select a class from the next academic tier of applicants? Nobody is coasting through high school with stellar grades and test scores without effort.

No, I disagree. There are a huge number of kids who have the scores and grades to do well. Probably 5 kids for every 1 spot at these schools.
Some universities preferentially choose the ones who also did bench science research during every summer of high school, had 2 school-year internships, founded a company that generated $10K in profits and are on the board of 6 non-profits. Others take the kids who were the soccer captain and the newspaper editor.

Both kids have the smarts for these institutions but #1 is a super grinder and #2 is not.

Vanderbilt is far more likely to take kid #2--they are known for their random admissions. Chicago also ends up taking kid #2 from many private high schools because from private schools they are a destination for the smart kids under the top 10% (the type B smart kids).

The soccer captain who is killing his AP classes and scoring a 1580 on the SAT is not just phoning it in. He is also a “grinder”. I know because this is my son. He puts in a ton of time into his classes. He has many friends on his soccer team who truly do not but are great at athletics. They are not getting into either Chicago or NU - and they shouldn’t. The idea that there is this large cohort of T20- capable students who don’t put in any effort is just nonsense.

I disagree completely. I have kids (twins) who have >1550 SATs, top grades and are sports captains but they also party (often to my chagrin) and they aren't grinders. They spend hours doing homework there is a huge difference between very smart kids who do well in school and those who sacrifice everything socially because they're playing the admissions grind game of spending their high school career working in labs, doing 17 internships, and basically developing the resume of a 35 year old.

You can be very smart and do very well in a challenging high school and not be a grinder.

My two who have above 1500 SATs studied very little. School was easy for them. One continued to study very little while acing college. The other did not need to study until college.

Methinks that with a 7% acceptance rate for class of 28 at NU, many of those stating emphatically that the "wrong kind of kid" gets accepted to NU are possibly people with axes to grind over admission results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^How do you get to be a top 10 institution without the brightest students??

This! Do you think that when they have kids who have done really well in high school applying such that they could fill their class twice over, they should select a class from the next academic tier of applicants? Nobody is coasting through high school with stellar grades and test scores without effort.

No, I disagree. There are a huge number of kids who have the scores and grades to do well. Probably 5 kids for every 1 spot at these schools.
Some universities preferentially choose the ones who also did bench science research during every summer of high school, had 2 school-year internships, founded a company that generated $10K in profits and are on the board of 6 non-profits. Others take the kids who were the soccer captain and the newspaper editor.

Both kids have the smarts for these institutions but #1 is a super grinder and #2 is not.

Vanderbilt is far more likely to take kid #2--they are known for their random admissions. Chicago also ends up taking kid #2 from many private high schools because from private schools they are a destination for the smart kids under the top 10% (the type B smart kids).

The soccer captain who is killing his AP classes and scoring a 1580 on the SAT is not just phoning it in. He is also a “grinder”. I know because this is my son. He puts in a ton of time into his classes. He has many friends on his soccer team who truly do not but are great at athletics. They are not getting into either Chicago or NU - and they shouldn’t. The idea that there is this large cohort of T20- capable students who don’t put in any effort is just nonsense.

I disagree completely. I have kids (twins) who have >1550 SATs, top grades and are sports captains but they also party (often to my chagrin) and they aren't grinders. They spend hours doing homework there is a huge difference between very smart kids who do well in school and those who sacrifice everything socially because they're playing the admissions grind game of spending their high school career working in labs, doing 17 internships, and basically developing the resume of a 35 year old.

You can be very smart and do very well in a challenging high school and not be a grinder.

My kid did not have any stem activities at all, and was accepted to one of the STEM degrees at northwestern.

They did have very strong essays, well rounded activities, and excelled in a niche area completely unrelated to stem, non profits, or anything else one would find on a middle aged person's resume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^How do you get to be a top 10 institution without the brightest students??

This! Do you think that when they have kids who have done really well in high school applying such that they could fill their class twice over, they should select a class from the next academic tier of applicants? Nobody is coasting through high school with stellar grades and test scores without effort.

No, I disagree. There are a huge number of kids who have the scores and grades to do well. Probably 5 kids for every 1 spot at these schools.
Some universities preferentially choose the ones who also did bench science research during every summer of high school, had 2 school-year internships, founded a company that generated $10K in profits and are on the board of 6 non-profits. Others take the kids who were the soccer captain and the newspaper editor.

Both kids have the smarts for these institutions but #1 is a super grinder and #2 is not.

Vanderbilt is far more likely to take kid #2--they are known for their random admissions. Chicago also ends up taking kid #2 from many private high schools because from private schools they are a destination for the smart kids under the top 10% (the type B smart kids).

The soccer captain who is killing his AP classes and scoring a 1580 on the SAT is not just phoning it in. He is also a “grinder”. I know because this is my son. He puts in a ton of time into his classes. He has many friends on his soccer team who truly do not but are great at athletics. They are not getting into either Chicago or NU - and they shouldn’t. The idea that there is this large cohort of T20- capable students who don’t put in any effort is just nonsense.

I disagree completely. I have kids (twins) who have >1550 SATs, top grades and are sports captains but they also party (often to my chagrin) and they aren't grinders. They spend hours doing homework there is a huge difference between very smart kids who do well in school and those who sacrifice everything socially because they're playing the admissions grind game of spending their high school career working in labs, doing 17 internships, and basically developing the resume of a 35 year old.

You can be very smart and do very well in a challenging high school and not be a grinder.

You seem to have a definition of grinder that is “not what my kid does”. You don’t think that other kids are going to think that your 1550 kids who “spend hours doing homework” are grinders? Sure your kids may not have a summer internship but otherwise, to much of the student body in a public high school, they are indistinguishable from those you consider grinders.

My son is handsome (yes, I have mom glasses), well liked, athletic, and a great student. Like your kids, he has no internships or lab experience. But he floats between math club and varsity/ club soccer worlds. He is his own person but he probably “fits” better with the math club kids than the soccer kids though he hangs out with both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like both schools very much, I think the student body is likely far more similar today with Northwestern becoming more “serious” and U of C less. During our tour at Northwestern the guide mentioned all the swag they give trying to koio entice kids to attend the football games.

You can't admit a student body that never attended a football game in high school (as they were too busy working at NIH or completing 8 internships) and then expect them to relax and be big sports fans in college. This isn't rocket science.

The student football tickets at NU all sould out in minutes, with lines of kids waiting outside for general admission.

Is it Notre Dame or Alabama intensity? Of course not.

But there are definitely plenty of kids at NU enjoying their college experience, including football.

Don’t NU undergraduates get free admission to all sports events???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like both schools very much, I think the student body is likely far more similar today with Northwestern becoming more “serious” and U of C less. During our tour at Northwestern the guide mentioned all the swag they give trying to koio entice kids to attend the football games.

You can't admit a student body that never attended a football game in high school (as they were too busy working at NIH or completing 8 internships) and then expect them to relax and be big sports fans in college. This isn't rocket science.

The student football tickets at NU all sould out in minutes, with lines of kids waiting outside for general admission.

Is it Notre Dame or Alabama intensity? Of course not.

But there are definitely plenty of kids at NU enjoying their college experience, including football.

Don’t NU undergraduates get free admission to all sports events???

Yes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like both schools very much, I think the student body is likely far more similar today with Northwestern becoming more “serious” and U of C less. During our tour at Northwestern the guide mentioned all the swag they give trying to koio entice kids to attend the football games.

You can't admit a student body that never attended a football game in high school (as they were too busy working at NIH or completing 8 internships) and then expect them to relax and be big sports fans in college. This isn't rocket science.

The student football tickets at NU all sould out in minutes, with lines of kids waiting outside for general admission.

Is it Notre Dame or Alabama intensity? Of course not.

But there are definitely plenty of kids at NU enjoying their college experience, including football.

Don’t NU undergraduates get free admission to all sports events???

Yes. Except for the Wrigley Field game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Northwestern kids do seem fairly down to earth and kind with a variety of interests. Doesn’t seem like a toxic culture at all the way some Ivys and top 20 schools are described. They take a very multidisciplinary approach and lots of kids double major as such.

+1