Two child homicides in Cleveland Park/Van Ness apartment buildings in eight days

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the voucher holders moving into those buildings.

I have 2 properties with voucher-holder tenants. The problem is not that the tenants hold vouchers, it's more likely that the management did not properly screen them, check background and references. My tenants are terrific.

No, the problem is DC dumping people who need significant assistance into empty apartments in neighborhoods far from their support centers (both familial and professional). The vouchers need to be combined with intensive support services. Just giving someone four walls and some help with the rent is only a very small part of the solution, but as usual, DC does it half-assed and is shocked when it doesn't work and actually makes things worse for everyone.

They are but there is very little or anything that a social worker can do. I've work as a nurse case manager and have been in the apartments of many voucher clients on CT ave. I spend my days connecting clients with medical and mental health appointments. There is a huge crowd of social workers from a million different agencies who follow the voucher clients. However, you can't stop violent behavior from happening the minute you leave from visiting a client and the city won't prosecute it. You can't force people to attend appointments or take meds--you can get them appointments, transportation to the appointments and you can follow them weekly to check in with them to talk about their lives, etc but that's about it. Building relationship helps but it is slow and expensive work. Let's say you send me out to check on someone once a week. That is a few hundred dollars. For one visit. 5K a year. For one client and that's if I do nothing but make a visit. It's mind blowing how many people there are like this in DC and how hard and expensive this work is.

It's amazing that more children (and women) don't get hurt. There is so much dysfunction and stuff that happens to children. It's horrible but it's been going on since the beginning of time. Now it's just under the nose of upper NW.

Actually my math is wrong. If I visit a client once a week that is more like $10K a year. On the cheap end. $10K a year just to support one person, encourage him to take his meds and hopefully inspire him to stay out of trouble (which may or may not work). And that's if he answers his door and I find him. It's 20K if I have to come back two times per week because he doesn't answer the door or pick up the phone (no one ever does this) and I have to make multiple visits or search parks or whatnot. Anyway, social work is very, very slow and cumbersome work. That's why it's not as easy as the city hiring more social workers (or nurses as is my case).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Housing First goes back to Bush, it predates Frumin by quite a bit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/10/07/dc-child-dies-father-arrested/

What was Bush’s policy on violent criminals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the voucher holders moving into those buildings.

I have 2 properties with voucher-holder tenants. The problem is not that the tenants hold vouchers, it's more likely that the management did not properly screen them, check background and references. My tenants are terrific.

No, the problem is DC dumping people who need significant assistance into empty apartments in neighborhoods far from their support centers (both familial and professional). The vouchers need to be combined with intensive support services. Just giving someone four walls and some help with the rent is only a very small part of the solution, but as usual, DC does it half-assed and is shocked when it doesn't work and actually makes things worse for everyone.

This was Mary Cheh’s take. It provoked a significant backlash and she chose to resign from the Council not long after. I wasn’t always a fan of Mary Cheh, but she made a very reasonable point on this issue and the reaction to it was disgusting.

Has Frumin said anything about all of this? Like, one word? The time to start finding an opponent for him is now. He's simply inept.

Frumin is focused on bike lanes and funk bands. Only so many hours in the day, people.

[Anonymous]

Maybe, just maybe the City shouldn’t approve marijuana dispensaries along Connecticut Ave?

[Anonymous]

This demonstrates that you cannot solve homelessness and mental illness simply by giving people apartments for free. They need to be in settings where they can get the support they need and where they are safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This demonstrates that you cannot solve homelessness and mental illness simply by giving people apartments for free. They need to be in settings where they can get the support they need and where they are safe.

Where do you think this mythical support and safety is? Newflash: it's nowhere.

Deandre wasn't killed because Ward 3 didn't have the services his family needed. He was killed because his dad is a monster and because our system sucks at protecting children. All over the city. It's sick to see a bunch of comments leveraging this tragedy to try to wall off upper NW from the problems of the city. The right place to direct anger is the USAO, the father who murdered his own kid, and the city who failed the kid. NOT marijuana dispensaries or vouchers or any other NIMBY garbage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This demonstrates that you cannot solve homelessness and mental illness simply by giving people apartments for free. They need to be in settings where they can get the support they need and where they are safe.

Where do you think this mythical support and safety is? Newflash: it's nowhere.

Deandre wasn't killed because Ward 3 didn't have the services his family needed. He was killed because his dad is a monster and because our system sucks at protecting children. All over the city. It's sick to see a bunch of comments leveraging this tragedy to try to wall off upper NW from the problems of the city. The right place to direct anger is the USAO, the father who murdered his own kid, and the city who failed the kid. NOT marijuana dispensaries or vouchers or any other NIMBY garbage.

The legal weed shops is the exact opposite of a NIMBY issue. Because in the 45 high rise buildings along the corridor the thousands of neighbors don’t have a “BY.” They have four inches of drywall and shared ventilation systems. The buildings will become unlivable for law abiding citizens in a few years and will spiral faster out of control. This is a legitimate public safety issue, whether you want to admit it or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how a fall could leave to cardiac arrest...

It doesn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Housing First goes back to Bush, it predates Frumin by quite a bit.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/10/07/dc-child-dies-father-arrested/

WP piece opens in private window if you are blocked. Has a lot of sweet details re: DeAndre. Mind blowing that he will not get to be 6. Per a neighbor, father was in bad mood @ car issues and he told the neighbor he punched the boy. Kids were living in squalor. Moving people to Ward 3 does not fix violence and dysfunction by magic Does Murch have adequate social workers to be keeping tabs on kids as the population has changed?

No school has adequate social workers. But surely they have enough to keep tabs on the kids at school. I’m not sure what kind of underpaid overworked school miracle worker you think is “keeping tabs” on kids at home.

No, they don’t have enough to support these children. DCPS and DC decided long ago that ward 3 schools get nothing. Not even for those who need it most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the voucher holders moving into those buildings.

I have 2 properties with voucher-holder tenants. The problem is not that the tenants hold vouchers, it's more likely that the management did not properly screen them, check background and references. My tenants are terrific.

No, the problem is DC dumping people who need significant assistance into empty apartments in neighborhoods far from their support centers (both familial and professional). The vouchers need to be combined with intensive support services. Just giving someone four walls and some help with the rent is only a very small part of the solution, but as usual, DC does it half-assed and is shocked when it doesn't work and actually makes things worse for everyone.

They are but there is very little or anything that a social worker can do. I've work as a nurse case manager and have been in the apartments of many voucher clients on CT ave. I spend my days connecting clients with medical and mental health appointments. There is a huge crowd of social workers from a million different agencies who follow the voucher clients. However, you can't stop violent behavior from happening the minute you leave from visiting a client and the city won't prosecute it. You can't force people to attend appointments or take meds--you can get them appointments, transportation to the appointments and you can follow them weekly to check in with them to talk about their lives, etc but that's about it. Building relationship helps but it is slow and expensive work. Let's say you send me out to check on someone once a week. That is a few hundred dollars. For one visit. 5K a year. For one client and that's if I do nothing but make a visit. It's mind blowing how many people there are like this in DC and how hard and expensive this work is.

It's amazing that more children (and women) don't get hurt. There is so much dysfunction and stuff that happens to children. It's horrible but it's been going on since the beginning of time. Now it's just under the nose of upper NW.

Actually my math is wrong. If I visit a client once a week that is more like $10K a year. On the cheap end. $10K a year just to support one person, encourage him to take his meds and hopefully inspire him to stay out of trouble (which may or may not work). And that's if he answers his door and I find him. It's 20K if I have to come back two times per week because he doesn't answer the door or pick up the phone (no one ever does this) and I have to make multiple visits or search parks or whatnot. Anyway, social work is very, very slow and cumbersome work. That's why it's not as easy as the city hiring more social workers (or nurses as is my case).

What would have saved this kid no doubt is if the kids were taken and kept away from the dad immediately following DV violence and gun charges last year. Dad should have been in jail. But alas the prosecutors dropped the charges because no one wants to hurt feelings. Then, when the violent monster kills someone it’s all tears and outrage.

Where are the prosecutors who let this guy back on the street?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This demonstrates that you cannot solve homelessness and mental illness simply by giving people apartments for free. They need to be in settings where they can get the support they need and where they are safe.

Where do you think this mythical support and safety is? Newflash: it's nowhere.

Deandre wasn't killed because Ward 3 didn't have the services his family needed. He was killed because his dad is a monster and because our system sucks at protecting children. All over the city. It's sick to see a bunch of comments leveraging this tragedy to try to wall off upper NW from the problems of the city. The right place to direct anger is the USAO, the father who murdered his own kid, and the city who failed the kid. NOT marijuana dispensaries or vouchers or any other NIMBY garbage.

I agree with you but it also doesn’t mean that I personally want to live with that disfunction. It used to be that DC did wall off some areas from thr disfunction — there are a lot of downsides to that approach but the upside is that you mention a tax base and commercial base in that area of the city. Once you spread the disfunction around the city, people who can afford to move out of the city will, and businesses will also close down. One would hope that the result of spreading the disfunction about the city is that: 1) wealthier residents get motivated to try to solve the problem and 2) the problems are decreased because there’s an exponential effect of having lots of low income people grouped together closely. But the other possible result is that the wealthier residents just leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the voucher holders moving into those buildings.

I have 2 properties with voucher-holder tenants. The problem is not that the tenants hold vouchers, it's more likely that the management did not properly screen them, check background and references. My tenants are terrific.

No, the problem is DC dumping people who need significant assistance into empty apartments in neighborhoods far from their support centers (both familial and professional). The vouchers need to be combined with intensive support services. Just giving someone four walls and some help with the rent is only a very small part of the solution, but as usual, DC does it half-assed and is shocked when it doesn't work and actually makes things worse for everyone.

They are but there is very little or anything that a social worker can do. I've work as a nurse case manager and have been in the apartments of many voucher clients on CT ave. I spend my days connecting clients with medical and mental health appointments. There is a huge crowd of social workers from a million different agencies who follow the voucher clients. However, you can't stop violent behavior from happening the minute you leave from visiting a client and the city won't prosecute it. You can't force people to attend appointments or take meds--you can get them appointments, transportation to the appointments and you can follow them weekly to check in with them to talk about their lives, etc but that's about it. Building relationship helps but it is slow and expensive work. Let's say you send me out to check on someone once a week. That is a few hundred dollars. For one visit. 5K a year. For one client and that's if I do nothing but make a visit. It's mind blowing how many people there are like this in DC and how hard and expensive this work is.

It's amazing that more children (and women) don't get hurt. There is so much dysfunction and stuff that happens to children. It's horrible but it's been going on since the beginning of time. Now it's just under the nose of upper NW.

Actually my math is wrong. If I visit a client once a week that is more like $10K a year. On the cheap end. $10K a year just to support one person, encourage him to take his meds and hopefully inspire him to stay out of trouble (which may or may not work). And that's if he answers his door and I find him. It's 20K if I have to come back two times per week because he doesn't answer the door or pick up the phone (no one ever does this) and I have to make multiple visits or search parks or whatnot. Anyway, social work is very, very slow and cumbersome work. That's why it's not as easy as the city hiring more social workers (or nurses as is my case).

What would have saved this kid no doubt is if the kids were taken and kept away from the dad immediately following DV violence and gun charges last year. Dad should have been in jail. But alas the prosecutors dropped the charges because no one wants to hurt feelings. Then, when the violent monster kills someone it’s all tears and outrage.

Where are the prosecutors who let this guy back on the street?

I’m sure it’s not because they didn’t want hurt feelings. They probably didn’t have cooperative witness. Because they need to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt they can’t do that without a witness.
cPS has a lower burden of proof but they also can’t take kids based on unsworn accusations. It’s a good question whether there is a policy of referring DV accusations for CPS assessment — I would guess there is not because many, many women would not come forward to make DV charges if they knew it would result in a CPS investigation and they might lose their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the voucher holders moving into those buildings.

Cleveland Park racist white woman has entered the chat.

Facts are not racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This demonstrates that you cannot solve homelessness and mental illness simply by giving people apartments for free. They need to be in settings where they can get the support they need and where they are safe.

Where do you think this mythical support and safety is? Newflash: it's nowhere.

Deandre wasn't killed because Ward 3 didn't have the services his family needed. He was killed because his dad is a monster and because our system sucks at protecting children. All over the city. It's sick to see a bunch of comments leveraging this tragedy to try to wall off upper NW from the problems of the city. The right place to direct anger is the USAO, the father who murdered his own kid, and the city who failed the kid. NOT marijuana dispensaries or vouchers or any other NIMBY garbage.

Right. If this kid had died in SW, would we now be five pages deep in this thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This demonstrates that you cannot solve homelessness and mental illness simply by giving people apartments for free. They need to be in settings where they can get the support they need and where they are safe.

Where do you think this mythical support and safety is? Newflash: it's nowhere.

Deandre wasn't killed because Ward 3 didn't have the services his family needed. He was killed because his dad is a monster and because our system sucks at protecting children. All over the city. It's sick to see a bunch of comments leveraging this tragedy to try to wall off upper NW from the problems of the city. The right place to direct anger is the USAO, the father who murdered his own kid, and the city who failed the kid. NOT marijuana dispensaries or vouchers or any other NIMBY garbage.

Right. If this kid had died in SW, would we now be five pages deep in this thread?

It should be. This was a family that had to have been deeply involved in DC social services yet all they got was a voucher in a building with zero support or care. Maybe if the city had just taken the kids and let him be homeless things would have turned out better.