Yield Protection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UMiami--in our school's scattergram, all the top stat students are deferred from EA and offered the opportunity to ED2. Without going ED2, even with showing tons of interest, my high stats kid was waitlisted.

That's not a rejection so it's a soft version of yield protection. Yield protecting non binding EA is reasonable. It would be chaos otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:virginia tech big time

1. VT is not a safety.
2. VT does not yield-protect and says as much right on their website.

"Yield Protection
Virginia Tech does not participate in yield protection."

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/counselor-corner.html#:~:text=Virginia%20Tech%20does%20not,participate%20in%20yield%20protection.

OP here.
I’ve heard that if you have over a 1500 SAT to watch out with VT. That’s really sad because it’s a top choice for my son. He submitted his app early (yesterday) plus we toured in Jan. Hopefully that signals to VT, that he is interested.

Next someone will say that VT doesn't care about DI. VT does care about DI AND yield protects regardless of what a lot VT cheerleaders come on here to say. If the department that your son is interested in has any sessions at all, make sure you attend to show interest even if you have attended a similar event previously. Engage with the department staff.

A lot of schools yield protect even though their stated policy may be "we don't yield protect". What are you going to do? Sue them? Kinda hard to prove your case given the opacity of the process. Don't really blame them though. A school that doesn't yield protect would pretty much admit every student that meets their academic/other threshold/standard for admission and deal with the consequences of low yield and waitlist management. Tech chooses not to do that and that's fine. People just need to be aware of this and plan accordingly.

If you are making the positive claim that a school yield protects, it's your job to prove it does, not our job to prove it doesn't. And as you say, it's going to be hard to prove your case. In fact, nobody has proven any school yield protects, it's just the all-purpose excuse for why kids who "should" have been admitted were denied.

Big and well-regarded state schools like VT and UVA have no need to yield protect. They have large pools of highly qualified applicants who are happy to attend due to the relatively low cost. If one kid out of 20,000+ who gets an offer turns it down, that won't even more the needle on VT yield rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:virginia tech big time

1. VT is not a safety.
2. VT does not yield-protect and says as much right on their website.

"Yield Protection
Virginia Tech does not participate in yield protection."

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/counselor-corner.html#:~:text=Virginia%20Tech%20does%20not,participate%20in%20yield%20protection.

OP here.
I’ve heard that if you have over a 1500 SAT to watch out with VT. That’s really sad because it’s a top choice for my son. He submitted his app early (yesterday) plus we toured in Jan. Hopefully that signals to VT, that he is interested.

Next someone will say that VT doesn't care about DI. VT does care about DI AND yield protects regardless of what a lot VT cheerleaders come on here to say. If the department that your son is interested in has any sessions at all, make sure you attend to show interest even if you have attended a similar event previously. Engage with the department staff.

A lot of schools yield protect even though their stated policy may be "we don't yield protect". What are you going to do? Sue them? Kinda hard to prove your case given the opacity of the process. Don't really blame them though..A school that doesn't yield protect would pretty much admit every student that meets their academic/other threshold/standard for admission and deal with the consequences of low yield and waitlist management. Tech chooses not to do that and that's fine. People just need to be aware of this and plan accordingly.

DP. What you are saying makes sense. It's disappointing, to say the least, that VT lies about this, both on the website and in its Common Data Set.

Good thing such "lies" are implausible and unproven, then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:virginia tech big time

1. VT is not a safety.
2. VT does not yield-protect and says as much right on their website.

"Yield Protection
Virginia Tech does not participate in yield protection."

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/counselor-corner.html#:~:text=Virginia%20Tech%20does%20not,participate%20in%20yield%20protection.

OP here.
I’ve heard that if you have over a 1500 SAT to watch out with VT. That’s really sad because it’s a top choice for my son. He submitted his app early (yesterday) plus we toured in Jan. Hopefully that signals to VT, that he is interested.

Next someone will say that VT doesn't care about DI. VT does care about DI AND yield protects regardless of what a lot VT cheerleaders come on here to say. If the department that your son is interested in has any sessions at all, make sure you attend to show interest even if you have attended a similar event previously. Engage with the department staff.

A lot of schools yield protect even though their stated policy may be "we don't yield protect". What are you going to do? Sue them? Kinda hard to prove your case given the opacity of the process. Don't really blame them though. A school that doesn't yield protect would pretty much admit every student that meets their academic/other threshold/standard for admission and deal with the consequences of low yield and waitlist management. Tech chooses not to do that and that's fine. People just need to be aware of this and plan accordingly.

If you are making the positive claim that a school yield protects, it's your job to prove it does, not our job to prove it doesn't. And as you say, it's going to be hard to prove your case. In fact, nobody has proven any school yield protects, it's just the all-purpose excuse for why kids who "should" have been admitted were denied.

Big and well-regarded state schools like VT and UVA have no need to yield protect. They have large pools of highly qualified applicants who are happy to attend due to the relatively low cost. If one kid out of 20,000+ who gets an offer turns it down, that won't even more the needle on VT yield rate.

How, if at all, do you distinguish yield protection from considering demonstrated interest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:virginia tech big time

1. VT is not a safety.
2. VT does not yield-protect and says as much right on their website.

"Yield Protection
Virginia Tech does not participate in yield protection."

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/counselor-corner.html#:~:text=Virginia%20Tech%20does%20not,participate%20in%20yield%20protection.

OP here.
I’ve heard that if you have over a 1500 SAT to watch out with VT. That’s really sad because it’s a top choice for my son. He submitted his app early (yesterday) plus we toured in Jan. Hopefully that signals to VT, that he is interested.

DP
SAT scores don’t matter as much as GPA and the VT essays. VT does not yield protect.

According to our Navience data they clearly do, or at least overly use waitlist for high stats kids. Better chance of getting in with a 4.1/1460 than a 4.4/1560. We had 20+ waitlisted kids with over a 4.1 and over a 1500, including 4.6/1570, 4.6/1580, 4.5/1590. Also two outright rejections at 4.3/1550. Kind of crazy for a school with an average SAT of 1260.

I'm seeing a huge forest of green in the top right of our naviance for VT. Over 1300 SAT and 4.0 gpa is essentially an auto-admit. Nothing about it says "yield protection". There are some waitlists in this high stats group, but given that (for example) in the group >1400 >4.3 there are about 50 admits, it is absurd to attribute the 7 waitlisted applicants to "yield protection".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:virginia tech big time

1. VT is not a safety.
2. VT does not yield-protect and says as much right on their website.

"Yield Protection
Virginia Tech does not participate in yield protection."

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/counselor-corner.html#:~:text=Virginia%20Tech%20does%20not,participate%20in%20yield%20protection.

OP here.
I’ve heard that if you have over a 1500 SAT to watch out with VT. That’s really sad because it’s a top choice for my son. He submitted his app early (yesterday) plus we toured in Jan. Hopefully that signals to VT, that he is interested.

Next someone will say that VT doesn't care about DI. VT does care about DI AND yield protects regardless of what a lot VT cheerleaders come on here to say. If the department that your son is interested in has any sessions at all, make sure you attend to show interest even if you have attended a similar event previously. Engage with the department staff.

A lot of schools yield protect even though their stated policy may be "we don't yield protect". What are you going to do? Sue them? Kinda hard to prove your case given the opacity of the process. Don't really blame them though..A school that doesn't yield protect would pretty much admit every student that meets their academic/other threshold/standard for admission and deal with the consequences of low yield and waitlist management. Tech chooses not to do that and that's fine. People just need to be aware of this and plan accordingly.

If VT admitted every student that is in their profile, they would over enroll every year. Having the stats isn’t enough. If your kid had the stats and didn’t get in it’s not because of yield protection, it’s because that’s how selective admissions works. You can accept reality and move on or keep going in circles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:virginia tech big time

1. VT is not a safety.
2. VT does not yield-protect and says as much right on their website.

"Yield Protection
Virginia Tech does not participate in yield protection."

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/counselor-corner.html#:~:text=Virginia%20Tech%20does%20not,participate%20in%20yield%20protection.

OP here.
I’ve heard that if you have over a 1500 SAT to watch out with VT. That’s really sad because it’s a top choice for my son. He submitted his app early (yesterday) plus we toured in Jan. Hopefully that signals to VT, that he is interested.

DP
SAT scores don’t matter as much as GPA and the VT essays. VT does not yield protect.

According to our Navience data they clearly do, or at least overly use waitlist for high stats kids. Better chance of getting in with a 4.1/1460 than a 4.4/1560. We had 20+ waitlisted kids with over a 4.1 and over a 1500, including 4.6/1570, 4.6/1580, 4.5/1590. Also two outright rejections at 4.3/1550. Kind of crazy for a school with an average SAT of 1260.

I'm seeing a huge forest of green in the top right of our naviance for VT. Over 1300 SAT and 4.0 gpa is essentially an auto-admit. Nothing about it says "yield protection". There are some waitlists in this high stats group, but given that (for example) in the group >1400 >4.3 there are about 50 admits, it is absurd to attribute the 7 waitlisted applicants to "yield protection".

Who said anything about seven? At our school for over 4.0 and over 1500 we have 29 waitlist and 4 rejections. Over 4.0 and 1350-1490 is almost an auto-admit. Obviously data from one school is not dispositive, but the higher stats kids at our school are getting different results than you would expect. I'm not sure why VT people are so defensive about this. There were a few years in recent history when VT overenrolled because they got more yield than they expected and they probably started using waitlist more to protect against overenrolling. If you want to call it yield management instead I guess that if fine. Everyone should check the data from their school and plan accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're in NY state (public) and according to our school's Naviance stats, Washington University of St. Louis is a big yield protect school.

It's not a super popular school for us, but in the past three years, Wash U accepted a handful of students in the 1330-1400 range with 3.91+ . . . but denied or WL quite a few more with 1500+ and 3.95+

When we dug in to the scattergrams of admit/WL/deny for our school, Wash U seemed like a genuine outlier re yield protection. Curious what others have seen.

Very likely Wash U applicants were TO. You can’t tell that from Scattergrams.

Obviously you can’t know why it was a no for an applicant, but we weee surprised that our 1500+, high rigor, etc etc kid didn’t get into Wash. CS/Engineering was probably part of it. But the TO environment didn’t help. And maybe not many from our public didn’t help either.

You: it’s not a popular school for your kid’s HS

And: a few lower stats kids got in AND Wash U denied quite a few higher stays kids.

Sounds like quite a few kids from your HS applied

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're in NY state (public) and according to our school's Naviance stats, Washington University of St. Louis is a big yield protect school.

It's not a super popular school for us, but in the past three years, Wash U accepted a handful of students in the 1330-1400 range with 3.91+ . . . but denied or WL quite a few more with 1500+ and 3.95+

When we dug in to the scattergrams of admit/WL/deny for our school, Wash U seemed like a genuine outlier re yield protection. Curious what others have seen.

Very likely Wash U applicants were TO. You can’t tell that from Scattergrams.

Our school does indicate TO on the scattergrams. We use SCOIR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Elon

(I know a kid who got into Amherst and Penn but rejected from Elon!)

Yep. In at Georgetown and Middlebury, waitlisted Elon.

Private college counselors routinely suggest Elon as a safety school for many higher stats kids. I imagine they are inundated with these applications. Elon is trying to manage their yield by accepting kids that are actually going to attend. They know a 35 ACT, 4.6 GPA kid is not likely to attend Elon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:virginia tech big time

1. VT is not a safety.
2. VT does not yield-protect and says as much right on their website.

"Yield Protection
Virginia Tech does not participate in yield protection."

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/counselor-corner.html#:~:text=Virginia%20Tech%20does%20not,participate%20in%20yield%20protection.

OP here.
I’ve heard that if you have over a 1500 SAT to watch out with VT. That’s really sad because it’s a top choice for my son. He submitted his app early (yesterday) plus we toured in Jan. Hopefully that signals to VT, that he is interested.

Next someone will say that VT doesn't care about DI. VT does care about DI AND yield protects regardless of what a lot VT cheerleaders come on here to say. If the department that your son is interested in has any sessions at all, make sure you attend to show interest even if you have attended a similar event previously. Engage with the department staff.

A lot of schools yield protect even though their stated policy may be "we don't yield protect". What are you going to do? Sue them? Kinda hard to prove your case given the opacity of the process. Don't really blame them though..A school that doesn't yield protect would pretty much admit every student that meets their academic/other threshold/standard for admission and deal with the consequences of low yield and waitlist management. Tech chooses not to do that and that's fine. People just need to be aware of this and plan accordingly.

If VT admitted every student that is in their profile, they would over enroll every year. Having the stats isn’t enough. If your kid had the stats and didn’t get in it’s not because of yield protection, it’s because that’s how selective admissions works. You can accept reality and move on or keep going in circles.

So you do admit they don't admit people that may fit their profile of an admitted student but they choose to not offer admission because that kid likely won't attend? That's the very definition of yield protection. And get over the stupid notion that these kids only have stats but are deficient in other ways. That might have worked in 1970 but no longer. Every high stats kid knows the game and plays it well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Also known for yield protection:
Santa Clara University
George Washington University

GWU Naviance from an FCPS school: >1300 SAT and >3.6 gpa = 90% admit rate.

The rejects were 1400 SAT so clearly not "yield protected" i.e. rejected because they were going to Harvard instead, lmao.

No yield protection there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:virginia tech big time

1. VT is not a safety.
2. VT does not yield-protect and says as much right on their website.

"Yield Protection
Virginia Tech does not participate in yield protection."

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/counselor-corner.html#:~:text=Virginia%20Tech%20does%20not,participate%20in%20yield%20protection.

OP here.
I’ve heard that if you have over a 1500 SAT to watch out with VT. That’s really sad because it’s a top choice for my son. He submitted his app early (yesterday) plus we toured in Jan. Hopefully that signals to VT, that he is interested.

DP
SAT scores don’t matter as much as GPA and the VT essays. VT does not yield protect.

According to our Navience data they clearly do, or at least overly use waitlist for high stats kids. Better chance of getting in with a 4.1/1460 than a 4.4/1560. We had 20+ waitlisted kids with over a 4.1 and over a 1500, including 4.6/1570, 4.6/1580, 4.5/1590. Also two outright rejections at 4.3/1550. Kind of crazy for a school with an average SAT of 1260.

I'm seeing a huge forest of green in the top right of our naviance for VT. Over 1300 SAT and 4.0 gpa is essentially an auto-admit. Nothing about it says "yield protection". There are some waitlists in this high stats group, but given that (for example) in the group >1400 >4.3 there are about 50 admits, it is absurd to attribute the 7 waitlisted applicants to "yield protection".

Who said anything about seven? [I said it because it's on my school's naviance, idiot.] At our school for over 4.0 and over 1500 we have 29 waitlist and 4 rejections. [Does your school necessarily report it when the WL is converted into an admit or deny?] Over 4.0 and 1350-1490 is almost an auto-admit. Obviously data from one school is not dispositive, but the higher stats kids at our school are getting different results than you would expect. [Like I said, our school shows exactly what you would expect - high stats kids overwhelmingly admitted, no anomalous pattern of high stats rejections.] I'm not sure why VT people are so defensive about this. [I'm not a VT person and I'm not being "defensive" I'm pointing out you have failed to prove your claim which is triggering you.] There were a few years in recent history when VT overenrolled because they got more yield than they expected and they probably started using waitlist more to protect against overenrolling. [Their yield has been consistently dropping since 2011. Isn't "yield protection" supposed to stop that from happening?] If you want to call it yield management instead I guess that if fine. Everyone should check the data from their school and plan accordingly.

For our school VT is basically a safety for high stats kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:virginia tech big time

1. VT is not a safety.
2. VT does not yield-protect and says as much right on their website.

"Yield Protection
Virginia Tech does not participate in yield protection."

https://www.vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/counselor-corner.html#:~:text=Virginia%20Tech%20does%20not,participate%20in%20yield%20protection.

OP here.
I’ve heard that if you have over a 1500 SAT to watch out with VT. That’s really sad because it’s a top choice for my son. He submitted his app early (yesterday) plus we toured in Jan. Hopefully that signals to VT, that he is interested.

DP
SAT scores don’t matter as much as GPA and the VT essays. VT does not yield protect.

According to our Navience data they clearly do, or at least overly use waitlist for high stats kids. Better chance of getting in with a 4.1/1460 than a 4.4/1560. We had 20+ waitlisted kids with over a 4.1 and over a 1500, including 4.6/1570, 4.6/1580, 4.5/1590. Also two outright rejections at 4.3/1550. Kind of crazy for a school with an average SAT of 1260.

I'm seeing a huge forest of green in the top right of our naviance for VT. Over 1300 SAT and 4.0 gpa is essentially an auto-admit. Nothing about it says "yield protection". There are some waitlists in this high stats group, but given that (for example) in the group >1400 >4.3 there are about 50 admits, it is absurd to attribute the 7 waitlisted applicants to "yield protection".

Who said anything about seven? At our school for over 4.0 and over 1500 we have 29 waitlist and 4 rejections. Over 4.0 and 1350-1490 is almost an auto-admit. Obviously data from one school is not dispositive, but the higher stats kids at our school are getting different results than you would expect. I'm not sure why VT people are so defensive about this. There were a few years in recent history when VT overenrolled because they got more yield than they expected and they probably started using waitlist more to protect against overenrolling. If you want to call it yield management instead I guess that if fine. Everyone should check the data from their school and plan accordingly.

Exactly! You are likely talking about TJ kids. My kid (and several of his high stats friends - We are talking GPA way over 75th percentile and SATs 1550+) who did not ED a couple of years ago were waitlisted at VT. We personally know at least a dozen of them and they had all the "VT-desired" EC crap and essays. These are not the "oh all they do is study and get high GPA and have nothing else" kids (who I don't think really exist). Of course, it was a safety for most of them and the few that were hoping for VT were pretty upset. I think a couple got in after sending in LOCIs but not sure. We saw the same thing happen over past couple of years as well and there are tons of posts in this forum as well as on CC that validates this. VT figured these kids are unlikely to attend and didn't offer admission. That IS the very definition of yield protection (or yield management) and VT has every right to do so.

DC 2 had a much lower GPA (25-50 %ile), SAT way over the 75th percentile, a meh EC profile, last minute essays and he got in. They figured he was likely to attend. Classic example of yield management.

Parents should check message boards and go with the most conservative assessments. Assume the worst, show interest in the college even if they say they don't consider DI, etc.

[Anonymous]

You really can't rely on Naviance to assess whether a school is yield protecting. There are so many factors--such as whether a student is a legacy, recruited athlete, what their intended major is--that is missing from those scatterplots.