William & Mary admission rates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just thinking about the same question today. At our very competitive FCPS, getting into William and Mary is very, very difficult. There is nowhere near a 40% acceptance rate. I am not sure why the acceptance rate appears so high, because coming from FCPS, I imagine it’s in the 20% range or lower. And only the top kids are applying.

It's more self selective. People who do not have the academic qualifications to get into W&M tend not to apply unlike other a lot of other schools

This. You can tell the cuts offs for WM (and UVA) in Naviance, and it is pretty clear what it takes to be admitted. (VT is a bit different because it doesn’t break out engineering and CS, which are very high stat, from other schools that are not. UVA has a much smaller engineering school). And WM has an optional extra essay that admissions clearly said in my kid’s info session is not optional. And they push demonstrated interest and consider it strongly, which means interviewing, visiting before being admitted, etc. You can a pretty clear idea of whether you will get in from NOVA just by looking at Naviance and checking demonstrated interest boxes. My kid had white/Asian female friends sitting in the 4.1-4.2 range who didn’t even bother to apply to WM because they knew they weren’t getting in and/or they didn’t want it enough to jump through the extra essay, interview, campus visit hoops.

The clear cut off, plus the fact it is the smallest T-whatever public university in the US and attracts a certain type of kid makes its applicant pool pretty self selecting.

Oddly, the same not really there on stats/ not applying to WM kids will often apply to UVA. Not sure why. I’m sure not having the extra essay helps. As does the fact UVA is more of a traditional flagship and WM attracts kids who want more undergrad focus, small classes, etc. and less big sports / highly visible Greek life.

But, statistically, it's more difficult to get into UVA.

Right. Because more kids apply to UVA. Which is what I said. But Looking at SCHEV, the stats of admitted students are almost identical for GPA, SAT and ACT for UVA and WM. And plenty of kids apply to both but only get into one— UVA wants more well rounded, and WM is a great place for pointy kids. They look for different things. But their median GPAs are about .02 apart.

But UVA is more selective at 19% of applicants offered admission whereas W&M's selectivity rate is 32% Further broken down you can see that only 12% of in-state applicants get into UVA. The stats figures you cite go to quality of student, which, indeed, are close. But the selectivity percentages show UVA is more difficult to get into.

Dude. We are saying the same thing.

Me: more kids apply to UVA, so a smaller percentage are admitted. But the quality of student by objective measures (GPAs and test scores) are identical..

You: yes but a smaller percentage of applicants are admitted so it’s a better school.

Me: I agree they admit a smaller percentage, but they still admit applicants with the exact same stats.

You (stamps foot): but UVA must be better because more kids apply


Me: but they are admitting kids with the same GPa and test scores.

You: but UVa is better!

It’s like arguing with a toddler. WM is more of a niche school with fewer applicants. But the classes they admit have almost identical academically caliber. Both of these things can be true at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just thinking about the same question today. At our very competitive FCPS, getting into William and Mary is very, very difficult. There is nowhere near a 40% acceptance rate. I am not sure why the acceptance rate appears so high, because coming from FCPS, I imagine it’s in the 20% range or lower. And only the top kids are applying.

It's more self selective. People who do not have the academic qualifications to get into W&M tend not to apply unlike other a lot of other schools

This. You can tell the cuts offs for WM (and UVA) in Naviance, and it is pretty clear what it takes to be admitted. (VT is a bit different because it doesn’t break out engineering and CS, which are very high stat, from other schools that are not. UVA has a much smaller engineering school). And WM has an optional extra essay that admissions clearly said in my kid’s info session is not optional. And they push demonstrated interest and consider it strongly, which means interviewing, visiting before being admitted, etc. You can a pretty clear idea of whether you will get in from NOVA just by looking at Naviance and checking demonstrated interest boxes. My kid had white/Asian female friends sitting in the 4.1-4.2 range who didn’t even bother to apply to WM because they knew they weren’t getting in and/or they didn’t want it enough to jump through the extra essay, interview, campus visit hoops.

The clear cut off, plus the fact it is the smallest T-whatever public university in the US and attracts a certain type of kid makes its applicant pool pretty self selecting.

Oddly, the same not really there on stats/ not applying to WM kids will often apply to UVA. Not sure why. I’m sure not having the extra essay helps. As does the fact UVA is more of a traditional flagship and WM attracts kids who want more undergrad focus, small classes, etc. and less big sports / highly visible Greek life.

But, statistically, it's more difficult to get into UVA.

Right. Because more kids apply to UVA. Which is what I said. But Looking at SCHEV, the stats of admitted students are almost identical for GPA, SAT and ACT for UVA and WM. And plenty of kids apply to both but only get into one— UVA wants more well rounded, and WM is a great place for pointy kids. They look for different things. But their median GPAs are about .02 apart.

But UVA is more selective at 19% of applicants offered admission whereas W&M's selectivity rate is 32% Further broken down you can see that only 12% of in-state applicants get into UVA. The stats figures you cite go to quality of student, which, indeed, are close. But the selectivity percentages show UVA is more difficult to get into.

Dude. We are saying the same thing.

Me: more kids apply to UVA, so a smaller percentage are admitted. But the quality of student by objective measures (GPAs and test scores) are identical..

You: yes but a smaller percentage of applicants are admitted so it’s a better school.

Me: I agree they admit a smaller percentage, but they still admit applicants with the exact same stats.

You (stamps foot): but UVA must be better because more kids apply


Me: but they are admitting kids with the same GPa and test scores.

You: but UVa is better!

It’s like arguing with a toddler. WM is more of a niche school with fewer applicants. But the classes they admit have almost identical academically caliber. Both of these things can be true at the same time.

They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

[Anonymous]

They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

UVA is like the lottery ticket Harvard of Virginia.
UVA is a bigger school with "something for everyone" so why not buy a lottery ticket.
W&M applicants are more self-selecting. It's more niche and not for everyone. People either love it or hate it.

When we toured UVA, I asked random students around campus why they chose UVA. A memorable quote was "I didn't look. I just applied. Many probably apply blindly, without knowing much about the school except for its ranking and reputation, which of course is very attractive. Very different from W&M whose students talked more about the vibe or the strength of the program they were pursuing.

If you look at the yield rates, W&M is lower (again, this is the love it/hate it factor) than UVA, which means they would need to increase their acceptance rates to make their enrollment class- which does make them look less selective (usuall translation- easier to get into) based on that number alone. It is very interesting to see that the stats of the enrolled students in both schools.

[Anonymous]

My kid “hated” W&M after the tour. Ended up going there (admitted students day was very impressive!) and has absolutely loved the school (he’s a junior)! Goes to show that snap judgements after tours should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just thinking about the same question today. At our very competitive FCPS, getting into William and Mary is very, very difficult. There is nowhere near a 40% acceptance rate. I am not sure why the acceptance rate appears so high, because coming from FCPS, I imagine it’s in the 20% range or lower. And only the top kids are applying.

It's more self selective. People who do not have the academic qualifications to get into W&M tend not to apply unlike other a lot of other schools

This. You can tell the cuts offs for WM (and UVA) in Naviance, and it is pretty clear what it takes to be admitted. (VT is a bit different because it doesn’t break out engineering and CS, which are very high stat, from other schools that are not. UVA has a much smaller engineering school). And WM has an optional extra essay that admissions clearly said in my kid’s info session is not optional. And they push demonstrated interest and consider it strongly, which means interviewing, visiting before being admitted, etc. You can a pretty clear idea of whether you will get in from NOVA just by looking at Naviance and checking demonstrated interest boxes. My kid had white/Asian female friends sitting in the 4.1-4.2 range who didn’t even bother to apply to WM because they knew they weren’t getting in and/or they didn’t want it enough to jump through the extra essay, interview, campus visit hoops.

The clear cut off, plus the fact it is the smallest T-whatever public university in the US and attracts a certain type of kid makes its applicant pool pretty self selecting.

Oddly, the same not really there on stats/ not applying to WM kids will often apply to UVA. Not sure why. I’m sure not having the extra essay helps. As does the fact UVA is more of a traditional flagship and WM attracts kids who want more undergrad focus, small classes, etc. and less big sports / highly visible Greek life.

But, statistically, it's more difficult to get into UVA.

Right. Because more kids apply to UVA. Which is what I said. But Looking at SCHEV, the stats of admitted students are almost identical for GPA, SAT and ACT for UVA and WM. And plenty of kids apply to both but only get into one— UVA wants more well rounded, and WM is a great place for pointy kids. They look for different things. But their median GPAs are about .02 apart.

But UVA is more selective at 19% of applicants offered admission whereas W&M's selectivity rate is 32% Further broken down you can see that only 12% of in-state applicants get into UVA. The stats figures you cite go to quality of student, which, indeed, are close. But the selectivity percentages show UVA is more difficult to get into.

UVA’s overall in-state acceptance rate is 25.5%.

http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2024/03/2023-2024-uva-admission-statistics.html

Lol people just straight up making up numbers on this thread.

Why would this be different from any other thread on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

UVA is like the lottery ticket Harvard of Virginia.
UVA is a bigger school with "something for everyone" so why not buy a lottery ticket.
W&M applicants are more self-selecting. It's more niche and not for everyone. People either love it or hate it.

When we toured UVA, I asked random students around campus why they chose UVA. A memorable quote was "I didn't look. I just applied. Many probably apply blindly, without knowing much about the school except for its ranking and reputation, which of course is very attractive. Very different from W&M whose students talked more about the vibe or the strength of the program they were pursuing.

If you look at the yield rates, W&M is lower (again, this is the love it/hate it factor) than UVA, which means they would need to increase their acceptance rates to make their enrollment class- which does make them look less selective (usuall translation- easier to get into) based on that number alone. It is very interesting to see that the stats of the enrolled students in both schools.

Yep my point exactly. W&M is currently in the first year of a yield increase pilot though, so it will be interested to see how that changes things. I'm also curious to see if the new undergrad Marine Science and Computer/Data Science schools will cause application numbers to jump (CS schools usually result in a lot of shotgun applications)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only a handful of 1693 scholarships, advantage in going ED1 or ED2, sign-up for an interview with admissions. Boys have about an 8% advantage in admissions.

Competitive admission, will most likely need over 1450 on SAT and 4.3+ on GPA.

This is interesting. Their website says the interview is with a current student and that it has no bearing on whether or not a kid is admitted. (My kid is signed up for the "shadow" day and not the interview, but maybe they should sign up for both?)

I think pp was specifically talking about the 1693 scholarship. An interview is required for the scholarship. But I believe the school contacts applicants selected for consideration (there is not a separate application), so you’d sign up for the 1693 interview at that time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably. Do you have a son or daughter? If son, more likely to be accepted as the gender balance is out of whack.

That’s nearly all schools. Not just W&M. Look at the gender numbers at other schools, too. More women are pursuing higher education than men.

I think engineering is still dominated by boys.

Biomedical and environmental engineering at both my kids’ T10s are 60-75% female. Mechanical is 20% female and CS is close to 5050. Electrical is almost 0 females. Females overall are approaching 50. Highly technical schols like RPI are dominated by males but at top schools that allow and encourage a lot of interdisciplinary study outside of the engineering program or within it—women engineering applicants heavily favor these schools. Since they are the most selective they get the best of the best females, and the schools have no problem getting outstanding females. In BME it is becoming almost a negative to be a female, similar to female bio majors: premeds dominate and premed females are far too common in the application pool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just thinking about the same question today. At our very competitive FCPS, getting into William and Mary is very, very difficult. There is nowhere near a 40% acceptance rate. I am not sure why the acceptance rate appears so high, because coming from FCPS, I imagine it’s in the 20% range or lower. And only the top kids are applying.

It's more self selective. People who do not have the academic qualifications to get into W&M tend not to apply unlike other a lot of other schools

This. You can tell the cuts offs for WM (and UVA) in Naviance, and it is pretty clear what it takes to be admitted. (VT is a bit different because it doesn’t break out engineering and CS, which are very high stat, from other schools that are not. UVA has a much smaller engineering school). And WM has an optional extra essay that admissions clearly said in my kid’s info session is not optional. And they push demonstrated interest and consider it strongly, which means interviewing, visiting before being admitted, etc. You can a pretty clear idea of whether you will get in from NOVA just by looking at Naviance and checking demonstrated interest boxes. My kid had white/Asian female friends sitting in the 4.1-4.2 range who didn’t even bother to apply to WM because they knew they weren’t getting in and/or they didn’t want it enough to jump through the extra essay, interview, campus visit hoops.

The clear cut off, plus the fact it is the smallest T-whatever public university in the US and attracts a certain type of kid makes its applicant pool pretty self selecting.

Oddly, the same not really there on stats/ not applying to WM kids will often apply to UVA. Not sure why. I’m sure not having the extra essay helps. As does the fact UVA is more of a traditional flagship and WM attracts kids who want more undergrad focus, small classes, etc. and less big sports / highly visible Greek life.

But, statistically, it's more difficult to get into UVA.

Right. Because more kids apply to UVA. Which is what I said. But Looking at SCHEV, the stats of admitted students are almost identical for GPA, SAT and ACT for UVA and WM. And plenty of kids apply to both but only get into one— UVA wants more well rounded, and WM is a great place for pointy kids. They look for different things. But their median GPAs are about .02 apart.

But UVA is more selective at 19% of applicants offered admission whereas W&M's selectivity rate is 32% Further broken down you can see that only 12% of in-state applicants get into UVA. The stats figures you cite go to quality of student, which, indeed, are close. But the selectivity percentages show UVA is more difficult to get into.

Dude. We are saying the same thing.

Me: more kids apply to UVA, so a smaller percentage are admitted. But the quality of student by objective measures (GPAs and test scores) are identical..

You: yes but a smaller percentage of applicants are admitted so it’s a better school.

Me: I agree they admit a smaller percentage, but they still admit applicants with the exact same stats.

You (stamps foot): but UVA must be better because more kids apply


Me: but they are admitting kids with the same GPa and test scores.

You: but UVa is better!

It’s like arguing with a toddler. WM is more of a niche school with fewer applicants. But the classes they admit have almost identical academically caliber. Both of these things can be true at the same time.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in VA, just trying to understand how competitive it is to get in. I'm seeing in-state/out-of-state admission rates for W&M as 39%/28%, which doesn't seem terrible. But the reputation in this forum is that it's a super tough admission. Is that because there's so much competition among the NOVA kids?

W&M doesn't have a super low acceptance rate, but the enrolled stats are relatively quite high. That probably explains what you said above. The applicant pool is not as big as other schools, but it would appear to be relatively qualified.

W&M posted the first stats for class of 2028 in the link below. SAT Mid 50% of 1530-1400 and ACT Mid 50% of 34-32. That is pretty high, along with an average GPA of 4.35. These are of course test optional and post Supreme Court ruling stats.

https://news.wm.edu/2024/08/23/a-bright-future-meet-william-marys-class-of-2028/

SAT ranges are meaningless in a TO environment. However: pre-TestOptional WM and UVA had almost exactly the same ranges as each other, with 25% of the enrolled class scoring around 1480+ , compared to the ivy/plus schools at the time with medians of 1490-1500. William and Mary is on par with UVA as far as student quality. It is much closer to an ivy “feel” than UVa because it has the ivy-range undergraduate size with focus on seminar style classes and engaged professors who love working with undergraduates. It always surprises me that it is not more popular! It is a perfect school for students who want ivy types but cannot get in or want to spend less $ for a similar style of education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not in VA, just trying to understand how competitive it is to get in. I'm seeing in-state/out-of-state admission rates for W&M as 39%/28%, which doesn't seem terrible. But the reputation in this forum is that it's a super tough admission. Is that because there's so much competition among the NOVA kids?

W&M doesn't have a super low acceptance rate, but the enrolled stats are relatively quite high. That probably explains what you said above. The applicant pool is not as big as other schools, but it would appear to be relatively qualified.

W&M posted the first stats for class of 2028 in the link below. SAT Mid 50% of 1530-1400 and ACT Mid 50% of 34-32. That is pretty high, along with an average GPA of 4.35. These are of course test optional and post Supreme Court ruling stats.

https://news.wm.edu/2024/08/23/a-bright-future-meet-william-marys-class-of-2028/

SAT ranges are meaningless in a TO environment. However: pre-TestOptional WM and UVA had almost exactly the same ranges as each other, with 25% of the enrolled class scoring around 1480+ , compared to the ivy/plus schools at the time with medians of 1490-1500. William and Mary is on par with UVA as far as student quality. It is much closer to an ivy “feel” than UVa because it has the ivy-range undergraduate size with focus on seminar style classes and engaged professors who love working with undergraduates. It always surprises me that it is not more popular! It is a perfect school for students who want ivy types but cannot get in or want to spend less $ for a similar style of education

SAT/ACT ranges aren't meaningless. You just have to try to factor the percentage that submit.

If you aren't factoring SAT/ACT, a sizeable majority of high schools don't provide class rank, and GPA calculations differ from state to district to school, what is really left to assess?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just thinking about the same question today. At our very competitive FCPS, getting into William and Mary is very, very difficult. There is nowhere near a 40% acceptance rate. I am not sure why the acceptance rate appears so high, because coming from FCPS, I imagine it’s in the 20% range or lower. And only the top kids are applying.

It's more self selective. People who do not have the academic qualifications to get into W&M tend not to apply unlike other a lot of other schools

This. You can tell the cuts offs for WM (and UVA) in Naviance, and it is pretty clear what it takes to be admitted. (VT is a bit different because it doesn’t break out engineering and CS, which are very high stat, from other schools that are not. UVA has a much smaller engineering school). And WM has an optional extra essay that admissions clearly said in my kid’s info session is not optional. And they push demonstrated interest and consider it strongly, which means interviewing, visiting before being admitted, etc. You can a pretty clear idea of whether you will get in from NOVA just by looking at Naviance and checking demonstrated interest boxes. My kid had white/Asian female friends sitting in the 4.1-4.2 range who didn’t even bother to apply to WM because they knew they weren’t getting in and/or they didn’t want it enough to jump through the extra essay, interview, campus visit hoops.

The clear cut off, plus the fact it is the smallest T-whatever public university in the US and attracts a certain type of kid makes its applicant pool pretty self selecting.

Oddly, the same not really there on stats/ not applying to WM kids will often apply to UVA. Not sure why. I’m sure not having the extra essay helps. As does the fact UVA is more of a traditional flagship and WM attracts kids who want more undergrad focus, small classes, etc. and less big sports / highly visible Greek life.

But, statistically, it's more difficult to get into UVA.

Right. Because more kids apply to UVA. Which is what I said. But Looking at SCHEV, the stats of admitted students are almost identical for GPA, SAT and ACT for UVA and WM. And plenty of kids apply to both but only get into one— UVA wants more well rounded, and WM is a great place for pointy kids. They look for different things. But their median GPAs are about .02 apart.

But UVA is more selective at 19% of applicants offered admission whereas W&M's selectivity rate is 32% Further broken down you can see that only 12% of in-state applicants get into UVA. The stats figures you cite go to quality of student, which, indeed, are close. But the selectivity percentages show UVA is more difficult to get into.

Dude. We are saying the same thing.

Me: more kids apply to UVA, so a smaller percentage are admitted. But the quality of student by objective measures (GPAs and test scores) are identical..

You: yes but a smaller percentage of applicants are admitted so it’s a better school.

Me: I agree they admit a smaller percentage, but they still admit applicants with the exact same stats.

You (stamps foot): but UVA must be better because more kids apply


Me: but they are admitting kids with the same GPa and test scores.

You: but UVa is better!

It’s like arguing with a toddler. WM is more of a niche school with fewer applicants. But the classes they admit have almost identical academically caliber. Both of these things can be true at the same time.

They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

No, they are not saying that at all.. Because parents, students and college counsellors have the SCHEV statistics issued annually by the Commonwealth (which no other state has) high schools seniors need only look at those stats plus their own high school's Naviance to determine whether or not they even have a chance at the lowest percentile of getting in. If you don't understand thus ask your high school counselor. It's all out there in black and white. If you apply to W&M or UVA but ate not acafemically qualified then you ate an ifiot (and most high school counsellors will strongly advise against it - advice which should be taken seriously in VA since they write one of the letters of recommendation and check off the "most rigorous" box)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

UVA is like the lottery ticket Harvard of Virginia.
UVA is a bigger school with "something for everyone" so why not buy a lottery ticket.
W&M applicants are more self-selecting. It's more niche and not for everyone. People either love it or hate it.

When we toured UVA, I asked random students around campus why they chose UVA. A memorable quote was "I didn't look. I just applied. Many probably apply blindly, without knowing much about the school except for its ranking and reputation, which of course is very attractive. Very different from W&M whose students talked more about the vibe or the strength of the program they were pursuing.

If you look at the yield rates, W&M is lower (again, this is the love it/hate it factor) than UVA, which means they would need to increase their acceptance rates to make their enrollment class- which does make them look less selective (usuall translation- easier to get into) based on that number alone. It is very interesting to see that the stats of the enrolled students in both schools.

Re: the bolded - is this satire? Because I can't stop laughing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

UVA is like the lottery ticket Harvard of Virginia.
UVA is a bigger school with "something for everyone" so why not buy a lottery ticket.
W&M applicants are more self-selecting. It's more niche and not for everyone. People either love it or hate it.

When we toured UVA, I asked random students around campus why they chose UVA. A memorable quote was "I didn't look. I just applied. Many probably apply blindly, without knowing much about the school except for its ranking and reputation, which of course is very attractive. Very different from W&M whose students talked more about the vibe or the strength of the program they were pursuing.

If you look at the yield rates, W&M is lower (again, this is the love it/hate it factor) than UVA, which means they would need to increase their acceptance rates to make their enrollment class- which does make them look less selective (usuall translation- easier to get into) based on that number alone. It is very interesting to see that the stats of the enrolled students in both schools.

Re: the bolded - is this satire? Because I can't stop laughing.

[b]

+1. Seriously. . They haven't a clue how VA admissions works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just thinking about the same question today. At our very competitive FCPS, getting into William and Mary is very, very difficult. There is nowhere near a 40% acceptance rate. I am not sure why the acceptance rate appears so high, because coming from FCPS, I imagine it’s in the 20% range or lower. And only the top kids are applying.

It's more self selective. People who do not have the academic qualifications to get into W&M tend not to apply unlike other a lot of other schools

This. You can tell the cuts offs for WM (and UVA) in Naviance, and it is pretty clear what it takes to be admitted. (VT is a bit different because it doesn’t break out engineering and CS, which are very high stat, from other schools that are not. UVA has a much smaller engineering school). And WM has an optional extra essay that admissions clearly said in my kid’s info session is not optional. And they push demonstrated interest and consider it strongly, which means interviewing, visiting before being admitted, etc. You can a pretty clear idea of whether you will get in from NOVA just by looking at Naviance and checking demonstrated interest boxes. My kid had white/Asian female friends sitting in the 4.1-4.2 range who didn’t even bother to apply to WM because they knew they weren’t getting in and/or they didn’t want it enough to jump through the extra essay, interview, campus visit hoops.

The clear cut off, plus the fact it is the smallest T-whatever public university in the US and attracts a certain type of kid makes its applicant pool pretty self selecting.

Oddly, the same not really there on stats/ not applying to WM kids will often apply to UVA. Not sure why. I’m sure not having the extra essay helps. As does the fact UVA is more of a traditional flagship and WM attracts kids who want more undergrad focus, small classes, etc. and less big sports / highly visible Greek life.

But, statistically, it's more difficult to get into UVA.

Right. Because more kids apply to UVA. Which is what I said. But Looking at SCHEV, the stats of admitted students are almost identical for GPA, SAT and ACT for UVA and WM. And plenty of kids apply to both but only get into one— UVA wants more well rounded, and WM is a great place for pointy kids. They look for different things. But their median GPAs are about .02 apart.

But UVA is more selective at 19% of applicants offered admission whereas W&M's selectivity rate is 32% Further broken down you can see that only 12% of in-state applicants get into UVA. The stats figures you cite go to quality of student, which, indeed, are close. But the selectivity percentages show UVA is more difficult to get into.

Dude. We are saying the same thing.

Me: more kids apply to UVA, so a smaller percentage are admitted. But the quality of student by objective measures (GPAs and test scores) are identical..

You: yes but a smaller percentage of applicants are admitted so it’s a better school.

Me: I agree they admit a smaller percentage, but they still admit applicants with the exact same stats.

You (stamps foot): but UVA must be better because more kids apply


Me: but they are admitting kids with the same GPa and test scores.

You: but UVa is better!

It’s like arguing with a toddler. WM is more of a niche school with fewer applicants. But the classes they admit have almost identical academically caliber. Both of these things can be true at the same time.

They're ignoring that thousands of students that aren't anywhere close to being academically qualified for UVA apply every year and are essentially an auto reject. W&M doesn't really get that.

No, they are not saying that at all.. Because parents, students and college counsellors have the SCHEV statistics issued annually by the Commonwealth (which no other state has) high schools seniors need only look at those stats plus their own high school's Naviance to determine whether or not they even have a chance at the lowest percentile of getting in. If you don't understand thus ask your high school counselor. It's all out there in black and white. If you apply to W&M or UVA but ate not acafemically qualified then you ate an ifiot (and most high school counsellors will strongly advise against it - advice which should be taken seriously in VA since they write one of the letters of recommendation and check off the "most rigorous" box)

+1. This