Why such an emphasis on holistically building a class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ironically holistic admissions developed in the early 20th century at elite American universities, particularly at Harvard and Columbia, partly in response to the growing number of Jewish and Catholic students entering these traditionally WASP institutions at rates that the traditional American aristocracy viewed as a threat to their power. During this time, the percentage of Jewish students at Harvard exceeded 20%, and at Columbia 40%. So Ivy League deans decided to adopt a more holistic approach to admissions that emphasized traits like legacy, athleticism, character, and other non-academic traits partly as a way to justify admitting more "traditional" (i.e. WASP) applicants over Jewish and Catholic students. Some schools even asked applicants to list their mother's maiden names, and provide photographs in order to filter out which applicants were Jewish. Even after the end of the Jewish quotas in the 1950s, this system carried over into the present. It's a bit shocking that universities continue to practice holistic admissions since its origins are blatantly racist and anti-Semitic.

It helps keep out the riff-raff

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically holistic admissions developed in the early 20th century at elite American universities, particularly at Harvard and Columbia, partly in response to the growing number of Jewish and Catholic students entering these traditionally WASP institutions at rates that the traditional American aristocracy viewed as a threat to their power. During this time, the percentage of Jewish students at Harvard exceeded 20%, and at Columbia 40%. So Ivy League deans decided to adopt a more holistic approach to admissions that emphasized traits like legacy, athleticism, character, and other non-academic traits partly as a way to justify admitting more "traditional" (i.e. WASP) applicants over Jewish and Catholic students. Some schools even asked applicants to list their mother's maiden names, and provide photographs in order to filter out which applicants were Jewish. Even after the end of the Jewish quotas in the 1950s, this system carried over into the present. It's a bit shocking that universities continue to practice holistic admissions since its origins are blatantly racist and anti-Semitic.

This is America. We utilize systems that are historically racist and unfair for good all the time. It’s kinda our specialty.

For example?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically holistic admissions developed in the early 20th century at elite American universities, particularly at Harvard and Columbia, partly in response to the growing number of Jewish and Catholic students entering these traditionally WASP institutions at rates that the traditional American aristocracy viewed as a threat to their power. During this time, the percentage of Jewish students at Harvard exceeded 20%, and at Columbia 40%. So Ivy League deans decided to adopt a more holistic approach to admissions that emphasized traits like legacy, athleticism, character, and other non-academic traits partly as a way to justify admitting more "traditional" (i.e. WASP) applicants over Jewish and Catholic students. Some schools even asked applicants to list their mother's maiden names, and provide photographs in order to filter out which applicants were Jewish. Even after the end of the Jewish quotas in the 1950s, this system carried over into the present. It's a bit shocking that universities continue to practice holistic admissions since its origins are blatantly racist and anti-Semitic.

This is America. We utilize systems that are historically racist and unfair for good all the time. It’s kinda our specialty.

The opposite also seem true where we utilize things like affirmative action that are historically meant to help stop discrimination to actually discriminate against politically weak minorities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so everyone isn't the same robot STEM kid.
seriously......

balance. a great American college experience is based on diversity of life experiences, thought, interests, background, majors, etc.

also, it allows them to pick students they KNOW will succeed (get jobs, not drop out, etc)

lastly, holistic admissions allows them to make sure they have students in ALL departments.

So every isn't the same white McLean, Langley, Big 3 kid. Bleh

You think holistic admissions is what prevents that? ROFLMAO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so everyone isn't the same robot STEM kid.
seriously......

balance. a great American college experience is based on diversity of life experiences, thought, interests, background, majors, etc.

also, it allows them to pick students they KNOW will succeed (get jobs, not drop out, etc)

lastly, holistic admissions allows them to make sure they have students in ALL departments.

But why does this matter? I ask this as a engineering graduate from a large university. They didn't care about a holistic class.

Of course they did. They offer way more than just engineering...you have to admit kids that want to study all the things they offer. They also need kids that can play in the marching band, play sports, participate in theatre, etc.

This. A university needs students in a variety of majors that do a variety of things.

You can do that without holistic admissions. All of europe manage to do this without holistic admissions.

Europe is not the US. Completely different population. This is the dumbest statement I have read on this thread.

[Anonymous]

No, they are creating a community. A cohort of young people who will live, work and socialize together for four years. A community full of all athletes or all eggheads or all one race or gender, no artists, etc is not ideal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically holistic admissions developed in the early 20th century at elite American universities, particularly at Harvard and Columbia, partly in response to the growing number of Jewish and Catholic students entering these traditionally WASP institutions at rates that the traditional American aristocracy viewed as a threat to their power. During this time, the percentage of Jewish students at Harvard exceeded 20%, and at Columbia 40%. So Ivy League deans decided to adopt a more holistic approach to admissions that emphasized traits like legacy, athleticism, character, and other non-academic traits partly as a way to justify admitting more "traditional" (i.e. WASP) applicants over Jewish and Catholic students. Some schools even asked applicants to list their mother's maiden names, and provide photographs in order to filter out which applicants were Jewish. Even after the end of the Jewish quotas in the 1950s, this system carried over into the present. It's a bit shocking that universities continue to practice holistic admissions since its origins are blatantly racist and anti-Semitic.

This is America. We utilize systems that are historically racist and unfair for good all the time. It’s kinda our specialty.

Also shocking these schools are considered prestigious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so everyone isn't the same robot STEM kid.
seriously......

balance. a great American college experience is based on diversity of life experiences, thought, interests, background, majors, etc.

also, it allows them to pick students they KNOW will succeed (get jobs, not drop out, etc)

lastly, holistic admissions allows them to make sure they have students in ALL departments.

But why does this matter? I ask this as a engineering graduate from a large university. They didn't care about a holistic class.

Of course they did. They offer way more than just engineering...you have to admit kids that want to study all the things they offer. They also need kids that can play in the marching band, play sports, participate in theatre, etc.

This. A university needs students in a variety of majors that do a variety of things.

You can do that without holistic admissions. All of europe manage to do this without holistic admissions.

Europe is not the US. Completely different population. This is the dumbest statement I have read on this thread.

There are 2 countries in the world that use holistic admissions. The USA and Hong Kong

[Anonymous]

When you only have 1500-1700 kids per class like most small elite universities, you want to have an interesting mix. You don't want everyone to be a CS nerd, pre-med, or future consultant.

Bigger schools are just more stats oriented because they take so many applicants they can afford to care less about individual characteristics. When you have a small student body, you need to be more specific with the class you curate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All the TO talk makes me wonder - what's the point of creating a specific class to your standards, whatever those standards are? Just a prestige thing?

https://www.aplu.org/urban-serving-universities/student-success/holistic/

Holistic review is a university admissions strategy that assesses an applicant’s unique experiences alongside traditional measures of academic achievement such as grades and test scores. It is designed to help universities consider a broad range of factors reflecting the applicant’s academic readiness, contribution to the incoming class, and potential for success both in school and later as a professional. Holistic review, when used in combination with a variety of other mission-based practices, constitutes a “holistic admission” process.

In 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court officially described the strategy as a “highly individualized, holistic review of each applicant’s file, giving serious consideration to all the ways an applicant might contribute to a diverse educational environment”(Grutter v. Bollinger, 539 U.S. 306, 2003). The ssociation of American Medical Colleges (AAMC) further refined this definition to provide specific guidance to medical schools, stating that in a holistic review process, “balanced consideration is given to experiences, attributes, and academic metrics and and, when considered in combination, how the individual might contribute value as a medical student and future physician” (Association of American Medical Colleges, 2013).

The desired outcomes of a holistic admission process will vary depending on each institution’s mission and goals. However, one core goal of a holistic process is the assembly of a diverse student body — diverse not only in race, ethnicity, and gender, but also in experience, socioeconomic status, and perspective. A key tenet of holistic review is the recognition that a diverse learning environment benefits all students and provides teaching and learning opportunities that more homogenous environments do not (Milem, 2003).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so everyone isn't the same robot STEM kid.
seriously......

balance. a great American college experience is based on diversity of life experiences, thought, interests, background, majors, etc.

also, it allows them to pick students they KNOW will succeed (get jobs, not drop out, etc)

lastly, holistic admissions allows them to make sure they have students in ALL departments.

this. its not india people.

Also, we don't need Engineering schools because we can import better educated Indians who weren't held back by equity-focused education.

[Anonymous]

One obvious thing about testing is that SAT is only a weird part of English and basic math, so doesn't help select people with talent in other areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the TO talk makes me wonder - what's the point of creating a specific class to your standards, whatever those standards are? Just a prestige thing?

Because for financial and logistical reasons they need a certain % of the class to be “… studies” majors. It costs way more to run labs and educate STEM majors, and since tuition doesn’t vary by major, they need to balance it out. They need a way to attract and keep the rich donor and otherwise connected kids who can’t keep up with more rigorous courses. They need to enrich the said kids’ experiences by providing structured but very low pressure interactions with the slice of population they will never encounter on their own. They want to be able to field a bunch of sports teams (big money there). Etc, etc.

No, the “diverse” class is not for your benefit.

This is why the institutions are big on non-science liberal arts. What does the funding of a math or English department look like:

Annual budget: Chalk— $800

Undergraduate lab/studio expenses are tiny compared to teaching staff and administrative bloat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you only have 1500-1700 kids per class like most small elite universities, you want to have an interesting mix. You don't want everyone to be a CS nerd, pre-med, or future consultant.

That's what they say, but the reality is that it means "we want more blacks, we don't want too many Asians". That is the working definition of "interesting".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you only have 1500-1700 kids per class like most small elite universities, you want to have an interesting mix. You don't want everyone to be a CS nerd, pre-med, or future consultant.

That's what they say, but the reality is that it means "we want more blacks, we don't want too many Asians". That is the working definition of "interesting".

Tons and tons of interesting Asians. They just have more interesting hobbies and academic interests than you and your kid.
And none of them are stem majors.