Why such an emphasis on holistically building a class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Studies have consistently shown that diversity leads to success. The more diverse a business, the greater the profitability. This is because diversity brings many different viewpoints and experiences. If you don't believe me, read the article below...

https://online.uncp.edu/degrees/business/mba/general/diversity-and-inclusion-good-for-business/

You literally cited a single McKinsey study that is very flawed and it does not even try to control for confounding variables.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studies have consistently shown that diversity leads to success. The more diverse a business, the greater the profitability. This is because diversity brings many different viewpoints and experiences. If you don't believe me, read the article below...

https://online.uncp.edu/degrees/business/mba/general/diversity-and-inclusion-good-for-business/

You literally cited a single McKinsey study that is very flawed and it does not even try to control for confounding variables.

https://medium.com/@alex.edmans/is-there-really-a-business-case-for-diversity-c58ef67ebffa

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studies have consistently shown that diversity leads to success. The more diverse a business, the greater the profitability. This is because diversity brings many different viewpoints and experiences. If you don't believe me, read the article below...

https://online.uncp.edu/degrees/business/mba/general/diversity-and-inclusion-good-for-business/

Read that McKinsey report more closely. They mention minorities not underrepresented minorities. They are talking about companies with more asians being more profitable than companies than are almost exclusively white. It's not diversity that makes them profitable, it's having more asians.

You can't know that, because the report doesn't say how they measured diversity.

That is not a compelling argument for the benefits of diversity. If anything this lack detailed information about the methodology behind the study further supports their argument that this McKinsey study is not based on a rigorous scientific analysis of the data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you only have 1500-1700 kids per class like most small elite universities, you want to have an interesting mix. You don't want everyone to be a CS nerd, pre-med, or future consultant.

That's what they say, but the reality is that it means "we want more blacks, we don't want too many Asians". That is the working definition of "interesting".

Tons and tons of interesting Asians. They just have more interesting hobbies and academic interests than you and your kid.
And none of them are stem majors.

This is not about what I think. This is about what elite college admissions committees clearly think, as demonstrated by their actions. They simply don’t want “too many” Asians. Boring!

Asians are massively over represented at good universities

[Anonymous]

It is all part of the admissions schtick. The schools want good sports teams and be able to fill the seats in the outdated subjects where they are stuck with tenured faculty.

Modern American universities are looking for paying customers that meet community needs, nothing more, nothing less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you only have 1500-1700 kids per class like most small elite universities, you want to have an interesting mix. You don't want everyone to be a CS nerd, pre-med, or future consultant.

That's what they say, but the reality is that it means "we want more blacks, we don't want too many Asians". That is the working definition of "interesting".

Tons and tons of interesting Asians. They just have more interesting hobbies and academic interests than you and your kid.
And none of them are stem majors.

This is not about what I think. This is about what elite college admissions committees clearly think, as demonstrated by their actions. They simply don’t want “too many” Asians. Boring!

Asians are massively over represented at good universities

They are overrepresented because of higher average test scores and higher average high school GPAs. If you control for test scores and GPAs they are not overrepresented among. 60% people that get a 750+ on their SAT math score are asian. For people with scores between 700-750 approximately 39% are Asian. If anything they are actually underrepresented among the universe of people with 700+ SAT math scores at elite universities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you only have 1500-1700 kids per class like most small elite universities, you want to have an interesting mix. You don't want everyone to be a CS nerd, pre-med, or future consultant.

That's what they say, but the reality is that it means "we want more blacks, we don't want too many Asians". That is the working definition of "interesting".

Tons and tons of interesting Asians. They just have more interesting hobbies and academic interests than you and your kid.
And none of them are stem majors.

This is not about what I think. This is about what elite college admissions committees clearly think, as demonstrated by their actions. They simply don’t want “too many” Asians. Boring!

Asians are massively over represented at good universities

They are overrepresented because of higher average test scores and higher average high school GPAs. If you control for test scores and GPAs they are not overrepresented among. 60% people that get a 750+ on their SAT math score are asian. For people with scores between 700-750 approximately 39% are Asian. If anything they are actually underrepresented among the universe of people with 700+ SAT math scores at elite universities

https://i0.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ccf_20170201_reeves_2.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you only have 1500-1700 kids per class like most small elite universities, you want to have an interesting mix. You don't want everyone to be a CS nerd, pre-med, or future consultant.

That's what they say, but the reality is that it means "we want more blacks, we don't want too many Asians". That is the working definition of "interesting".

Tons and tons of interesting Asians. They just have more interesting hobbies and academic interests than you and your kid.
And none of them are stem majors.

This is not about what I think. This is about what elite college admissions committees clearly think, as demonstrated by their actions. They simply don’t want “too many” Asians. Boring!

Asians are massively over represented at good universities

Yet somehow underrepresented in corporate America, presidents of universities, superintendents of public school districts, governors, mayors, judges, partners at law firms....

You'd think that such an overrepresented group would have succeeded elsewhere in society. Here's a question for you: how many AA not in the entertainment and sports industries can you name?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so everyone isn't the same robot STEM kid.
seriously......

balance. a great American college experience is based on diversity of life experiences, thought, interests, background, majors, etc.

also, it allows them to pick students they KNOW will succeed (get jobs, not drop out, etc)

lastly, holistic admissions allows them to make sure they have students in ALL departments.

But why does this matter? I ask this as an engineering graduate from a large university. They didn't care about a holistic class.

They did care, but you just didn’t know. They did not want 100% engineering majors. They wanted a range. They do not want all students from one county in the state or even from one state. They seek a range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so everyone isn't the same robot STEM kid.
seriously......

balance. a great American college experience is based on diversity of life experiences, thought, interests, background, majors, etc.

also, it allows them to pick students they KNOW will succeed (get jobs, not drop out, etc)

lastly, holistic admissions allows them to make sure they have students in ALL departments.

But why does this matter? I ask this as a engineering graduate from a large university. They didn't care about a holistic class.

so maybe you weren't at a selective school (yes, i get a selective major)....but a large flagship doesn't care about "holistic" admissions bc their mission is to educate the state's people.

private colleges have different missions.

I’m not sure that’s true…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so everyone isn't the same robot STEM kid.
seriously......

balance. a great American college experience is based on diversity of life experiences, thought, interests, background, majors, etc.

also, it allows them to pick students they KNOW will succeed (get jobs, not drop out, etc)

lastly, holistic admissions allows them to make sure they have students in ALL departments.

But why does this matter? I ask this as a engineering graduate from a large university. They didn't care about a holistic class.

Your inability to see why a holistic class might be valuable shows the limits of your non-holistic experience! You could have learned a lot and enjoyed spending times with a bunch of kids with all kinds of backgrounds and interests.

This. OP doesn't understand the benefits of a diverse setting and how it makes you a better thinker and problem solver because they've never had this experience. That's why OP is now getting hung up on something others understand intuitively.

That’s how engineers think probably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so everyone isn't the same robot STEM kid.
seriously......

balance. a great American college experience is based on diversity of life experiences, thought, interests, background, majors, etc.

also, it allows them to pick students they KNOW will succeed (get jobs, not drop out, etc)

lastly, holistic admissions allows them to make sure they have students in ALL departments.

But why does this matter? I ask this as a engineering graduate from a large university. They didn't care about a holistic class.

Your inability to see why a holistic class might be valuable shows the limits of your non-holistic experience! You could have learned a lot and enjoyed spending times with a bunch of kids with all kinds of backgrounds and interests.

This. OP doesn't understand the benefits of a diverse setting and how it makes you a better thinker and problem solver because they've never had this experience. That's why OP is now getting hung up on something others understand intuitively.

That’s how engineers think probably.

There evidence of benefits from diversity are very weak and almost entirely attributable to publication bias. Researchers larger choose not to public articles that claim diversity has not benefit or is actually harmful in some way. There have been very rigorous meta analyses on diversity studies that indicate a strong publication bias in the results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so everyone isn't the same robot STEM kid.
seriously......

balance. a great American college experience is based on diversity of life experiences, thought, interests, background, majors, etc.

also, it allows them to pick students they KNOW will succeed (get jobs, not drop out, etc)

lastly, holistic admissions allows them to make sure they have students in ALL departments.

But why does this matter? I ask this as a engineering graduate from a large university. They didn't care about a holistic class.

Your inability to see why a holistic class might be valuable shows the limits of your non-holistic experience! You could have learned a lot and enjoyed spending times with a bunch of kids with all kinds of backgrounds and interests.

This. OP doesn't understand the benefits of a diverse setting and how it makes you a better thinker and problem solver because they've never had this experience. That's why OP is now getting hung up on something others understand intuitively.

That’s how engineers think probably.

DP. Not an engineer but can read and understand data unlike... The average engineer in any country is far more intelligent that the average liberal arts major and makes much more money than a liberal arts major. I bet you didn't know that.

[Anonymous]

OP doesn't understand the benefits of a diverse setting and how it makes you a better thinker and problem solver

Narrator: It doesn't.

This is like a Soviet commissar insisting that Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist Thought makes you a better thinker and problem solver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studies have consistently shown that diversity leads to success. The more diverse a business, the greater the profitability. This is because diversity brings many different viewpoints and experiences. If you don't believe me, read the article below...

https://online.uncp.edu/degrees/business/mba/general/diversity-and-inclusion-good-for-business/

Read that McKinsey report more closely. They mention minorities not underrepresented minorities. They are talking about companies with more asians being more profitable than companies than are almost exclusively white. It's not diversity that makes them profitable, it's having more asians.

You can't know that, because the report doesn't say how they measured diversity.

Yes they do, they say ethnic minority. Asians are an ethnic minority.