The End of Feminism? Young Men Prefer Traditional Gender Roles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think they will rapidly change their minds when (1) they discover how much housing costs, (2) they learn many very desirable partners have no interest in staying home and waiting on them, and (3) even the women who agree to this arrangement will sour on it when they discover having no independent economic power makes them feel unappreciated and used.

But go ahead a re-learn the lessons of prior generations I guess.

+1

-older gen xer wife, mom with a FT job

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am a working woman with a husband who does 50/50 at home and is supportive of my career.

However if I could do it all over again I would look for a more traditional marriage with gender roles.

The vast majority of women seemed to get screwed over working a man’s job and also being a wife and mom. Now there is an expectation that a woman has a demanding career and do everything at home.

Never heard nor saw this “expectation.”

Who has this expectation?

I believe it was first pointed out in "The Second Shift." Have you read it?

If you're the same person who thought that women didn't have kids out of wedlock then you're just all over this thread being confidently wrong.

No I don’t care about neither of those other things.

That's fine. Have a great day.

Talking about a book and a baby momma thread isn’t answering the question.

I can live with that. I don't care what you know or don't know.

We all see 3x now how uncomfortable that question makes you. Since you refuse to answer it.

Let’s try again PP: Who has that expectation?

We?

I'm unwilling to work for you. I know it's a waste of my time to have this conversation with someone who doesn't care to read. Don't worry, I'm sure someone else will have more patience for handholding.

Another non-response to “Who has those expectations?”

Hope you aren’t like this at work or your real life relationships. You must piss off everyone with your lame and obvious deflections.

[Anonymous]

Is tradition protection from divorce? What happens when a traditional housewife gets divorced 15 years from today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The unpopular but true opinion is that being a housewife is an amazing job. You don't have a boss. You can wakeup whenever you want most days. The lions share of chores are a cinch. Wow, throw in laundry and go run on the treadmill for an hour. Throw in dryer and stream Netflix vids.

Why would you want a stressful professional job that kills you and makes you die early?

Gen Z women have figure out that the working world is overrated and for suckers.

It kills your brain cells, and dealing with children all day, even your own, can wear on you. Most people, women and men, don't absolutely love being with kids all day.

I've done it all - wohm, wfh, PT, FT, sahm. Yes, the stress went down when I became a sahm, but I also found my brain was atrophying. PT was the best of both worlds. However, once the kids hit MS, and they don't need you as much, you get bored. One can only do so much laundry and cleaning.

My sister is a care taker. Always has been. She desperately wanted to be a sahm with a small house. Didn't work that way for her. She divorced her deadbeat husband and became a single mom who had to work, starting from scratch because she had given up her career when she married her deadbeat husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Men are rejecting the unnecessary posturing anger in relationships. You say you're strong and independent and you don't need a man? Okay, gotcha. I'm going fishing, have a nice life, bye.

They're checking out on the nonsense. As men are saying now, "There are no more good women worth having".

"You can't fire me, I quit"

Anyway, why do you think a woman working means she thinks she doesn't need a man? It's kind of weird. Most women work. Do you honestly think "good" women don't work? Are you OK?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is tradition protection from divorce? What happens when a traditional housewife gets divorced 15 years from today?

This is why some men want to go back to the 1950s, where women had to suck it up in a bad marriage, even an abusive one.

My mother was one such person. I'm positive that the mental and emotional abuse she endured from my father caused her to have alzheimers. They are still married, and when she was diagnosed with this disease he didn't believe it. He continued to mentally and emotionally abuse her saying that she was faking it.

She had zero resources to divorce and be a single parent to four children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is tradition protection from divorce? What happens when a traditional housewife gets divorced 15 years from today?

They’ll post a bunch of tearful videos on social media. Boo hoo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they will rapidly change their minds when (1) they discover how much housing costs, (2) they learn many very desirable partners have no interest in staying home and waiting on them, and (3) even the women who agree to this arrangement will sour on it when they discover having no independent economic power makes them feel unappreciated and used.

But go ahead a re-learn the lessons of prior generations I guess.

+1

Men earn more than women, men are better at investing and saving their money than women. Think again.

You might want to read an article about why that is, rather than pat yourself on the back. FWIW, I had more saved than DH did, and he had always out earned me, including the six years he started working before me. Now I out earn him.

https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/banking/savings/why-women-save-less-money-than-men/#-women-earn-less-than-men

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Neglect of social science is a huge factor in this kind of thinking. People who actually learn about history, gender studies, and social economics know that this vision of "traditional" roles with SAH spouse was never common. (Those people would also know what the words "feminism" and "patriarchy" mean, which I'm not sure OP does.)

In an aggragrian society, everybody works but mostly not for cash. There was no "going to work" vs staying home, although you might share labor among neighbors. As things urbanized and moved to cash, people almost immediately outsourced their meals and laundry, so there were women with businesses and working outside the home. In both scenarios there were a lot of people who never married: they lived with family, or worked for the rich, or went into religion or military.

The idea of widespread marriage where one man's cash wage supports a SAHM nuclear family was a thing for a very brief period in the US, and only for a faction of the population. A blip, not traditional.

This is not what labor statistics show. But this is often repeated on here. Women didn’t even have access to daycare or any sort of maternity leave so it was extremely difficult for a woman to hold down any sort of job outside of the home. Women working a man’s job is a recent thing.

Curious what you think are men's jobs in this context, but it doesn't really matter because we're talking paid work outside the home. Women historically worked as teachers, cooks, childcare providers, laundresses, cleaners, seamstresses, etc etc. When office work was invented they worked in offices. That's all working outside the home.

Women left their kids with relatives or brought them with, depending on the job. But, as I already said many didn't have spouses so they either didn't have kids or they gave them up (including to family). Marriage was not as common as the trad fantasy assumes.

You lost all credibility with that statement. Having children out of wedlock was incredibly uncommon. Why? The average woman couldn’t support herself and there was limited government assistance, if any.

LOL, people have always been horny. Kids out of wedlock was not uncommon at all. But childless people also were not uncommon. Birth control wasn't great but it existed, and also babies died. And of course some people didn't have sex or didn't have hetero sex or were infertile.

Even though you didn't learn this in school, I don't understand how you can consume popular media and not think there were working women. You've never seen a movie set pre-1940 with women factory workers or school teachers? Never seen one set 1950-onward with secretaries? You don't have any female relatives from the 50s who worked or employed women?

[Anonymous]

So where'd OP go??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, they're just going to find out no one wants to date or marry them with those attitudes.

Yes ,it’s going to be hard for a man to find a woman who wants to take care of kid, family and home instead of going into the workforce.

You’re delusional if you think that is going to be hard.

Well first those men have to actually get jobs that can fund that. So that's one. Second, men who feel strongly about "traditional" gender roles often just are terrible about doing their share at home and act controlling.

The reality is most men I've met who claim to want traditional gender roles are just lazy guys who don't actually make that much money but they want a woman to cook and clean for them anyway. The men I know who are doctors, lawyers and engineers are married to other doctors, lawyers, and engineers.

This. Educated men want equal earners; they don’t want to support somebody else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:No, they're just going to find out no one wants to date or marry them with those attitudes.

Yes ,it’s going to be hard for a man to find a woman who wants to take care of kid, family and home instead of going into the workforce.

You’re delusional if you think that is going to be hard.

Well first those men have to actually get jobs that can fund that. So that's one. Second, men who feel strongly about "traditional" gender roles often just are terrible about doing their share at home and act controlling.

The reality is most men I've met who claim to want traditional gender roles are just lazy guys who don't actually make that much money but they want a woman to cook and clean for them anyway. The men I know who are doctors, lawyers and engineers are married to other doctors, lawyers, and engineers.

Yes. But then they expect the female doctors, lawyers, and engineers to do the brunt of the housework and childcare. This is why female physicians make $100,000 less per year than their male counterparts.

In some ways, I think it would be a lot easier if everyone was realistic about what they wanted upfront.

I'm a female lawyer married to a male engineer, and no, he doesn't dump all the work on me. My mom worked part time and my physician father didn't dump all the work on her either, my Dad and I together would do the dishes and clean every single night.

Women make up more than half of enrollment colleges, law schools and medical schools. We're not going back.

I was married to a lawyer and one of the reasons we are divorced is because he did 0% of parenting or household duties. A lot of men do still dump the woman on the women even when they work full-time which sucks but at least I was able to get a divorce because I work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a working woman with a husband who does 50/50 at home and is supportive of my career.

However if I could do it all over again I would look for a more traditional marriage with gender roles.

The vast majority of women seemed to get screwed over working a man’s job and also being a wife and mom. Now there is an expectation that a woman has a demanding career and do everything at home.

Never heard nor saw this “expectation.”

Who has this expectation?

I am young Gen X and this expectation is exactly correct because it’s been the expectation for people my age for the last 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a working woman with a husband who does 50/50 at home and is supportive of my career.

However if I could do it all over again I would look for a more traditional marriage with gender roles.

The vast majority of women seemed to get screwed over working a man’s job and also being a wife and mom. Now there is an expectation that a woman has a demanding career and do everything at home.

Never heard nor saw this “expectation.”

Who has this expectation?

I believe it was first pointed out in "The Second Shift." Have you read it?

If you're the same person who thought that women didn't have kids out of wedlock then you're just all over this thread being confidently wrong.

+1

[Anonymous]

Women are earning more money. But they're still picking up a heavier load at home

https://www.npr.org/2023/04/13/1168961388/pew-earnings-gender-wage-gap-housework-chores-child-care

It's still standard that women do more around the house than men do, but the solution isn't for women to stop working, it's for men to start working (around the house). Some men are doing their part, but they aren't in the majority. The alleged male loneliness epidemic won't go away until these men are willing to put in the same amount of work that women put in.