Algebra 2 after summer geometry: online or in person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An update: after a meeting with the principal and head counselor where the parents of rising 8th graders made their concerns known, the school made the decision to offer Algebra 2 in person this year. A great outcome and much appreciation for the flexibility and openness KMS showed. It really is a very good school.

Great. Kids who really need resources get fewer so that your UMC snowflakes aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the consequences of your own poor choices. Yay!

You have such venom for advanced students…why?

Shortchanging math does no good and is emblematic of education being about ‘winning’ and not about learning. There is no reason to cram a year’s worth of fundamental math into six weeks. Until there are real immediate consequences for people doing so (as opposed to the later gaps that might not be noticed for years), people will continue to do so.

Actually a more likely outcome is that as more people take it routinely, middle schools are more likely to make it available on a regular basis. It is , for instance, always available in person at schools like Longfellow and Cooper. This is the direction of travel.

It's funny how some pyramids advertise the availability of summer geometry and others have no clue. For anyone wondering why seats at TJ have to be allocated by MS, this is a great example of how FCPS allows some schools to push students and other schools to pretend options aren't available

It’s not pushing to let the kids know a summer class is available.

The OP said that they were surprised because they thought more kid were taking summer geometry. It turns out that a decent number of the Kilmore kids taking geometry in the summer are expunging it from their report cards and will be taking it this term. That tells me that a good number of kids or parents or both realized that this was a crazy path or too hard a path and unnecessary.

Summer school should not be pushed to accelerate a child academically, especially when you are trying to cram a years worth of math into 5-6 weeks. Summer school is mainly meant to retake failed classes or classes kids did not do well in. It isn't meant to accelerate.

DS is taking Algebra 1 at Carson this year, I doubt that he is going to have Teachers telling him to take Geometry this summer. The kids that I know who have discussed doing this were telling their parents that their friends were doing it so they wanted to do it. It wasn't the Teachers, it was peer pressure. My friends told their kids no and both the kids I know who were told no ended up at TJ with Geometry completed.

The only ones I know who have done Geometry in the summer and didn't hate it were kids who had taken Geometry through RSM or AoPS and the class was essentially checking a box for them. These kids still didn't like taking it in the summer because it meant that they had less time to do something that they wanted to do that as fun.

I don't believe for a second that Counselors or Teachers are pushing Geometry in the summer. This is a parents who think their kids need to be further accelerated or kids listening to friends who are taking the class. The schools that have a larger number of TJ focused kids end up with more kids taking this path in the summer mostly because they think it will give them an admissions advantage in some way.

[Anonymous]

You can't be mad at kids or parents for utilizing a path that FCPS has made available. IMO, it would be much better if FCPS expanded pathways for kids to take Algebra in 6th, providing that the kid truly is ready.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't be mad at kids or parents for utilizing a path that FCPS has made available. IMO, it would be much better if FCPS expanded pathways for kids to take Algebra in 6th, providing that the kid truly is ready.

I am not mad with the parents. I do think that the parents are responsible for understanding what the next class looks like before they enroll their kid in an accelrated class that is not within the normal pacing. There are not enough students to have a complete Algebra 2 class and the online class was offered. Now schedules at the MS have been disrupted to appease the parents who choose to accelerate their kids in a non-standard path. That annoys me.

Teachers and Admin are stretched thin, mucking with Teachers schedules and prep time because 8 parents decided that their kid had to take a year long class in a 5 week period so they could be ahead in math is unreasonable. I only hope that a Teacher didn't loose a planning period or that other kids are not being added to a large section of Geometry or Algebra to make space in the schedule for Algebra 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't be mad at kids or parents for utilizing a path that FCPS has made available. IMO, it would be much better if FCPS expanded pathways for kids to take Algebra in 6th, providing that the kid truly is ready.

I am not mad with the parents. I do think that the parents are responsible for understanding what the next class looks like before they enroll their kid in an accelrated class that is not within the normal pacing. There are not enough students to have a complete Algebra 2 class and the online class was offered. Now schedules at the MS have been disrupted to appease the parents who choose to accelerate their kids in a non-standard path. That annoys me.

Teachers and Admin are stretched thin, mucking with Teachers schedules and prep time because 8 parents decided that their kid had to take a year long class in a 5 week period so they could be ahead in math is unreasonable. I only hope that a Teacher didn't loose a planning period or that other kids are not being added to a large section of Geometry or Algebra to make space in the schedule for Algebra 2.

You're taking this really personally and directing your ire at the wrong people. The MS *chose* to change the schedule to provide an in-person algebra II option. They could have just as easily decided to force the kids to either do the online class or take classes at the local high school. Since they apparently offered Algebra II in person last year, it's likely that the teacher from last year wanted to teach it again or the school generally wants to provide the class. They likely want to be seen as on par with Carson and Longfellow. If you dislike the schedule changes, then you should be upset with the people who have control over the scheduling. Whiny parents don't really have that much power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't be mad at kids or parents for utilizing a path that FCPS has made available. IMO, it would be much better if FCPS expanded pathways for kids to take Algebra in 6th, providing that the kid truly is ready.

I am not mad with the parents. I do think that the parents are responsible for understanding what the next class looks like before they enroll their kid in an accelrated class that is not within the normal pacing. There are not enough students to have a complete Algebra 2 class and the online class was offered. Now schedules at the MS have been disrupted to appease the parents who choose to accelerate their kids in a non-standard path. That annoys me.

Teachers and Admin are stretched thin, mucking with Teachers schedules and prep time because 8 parents decided that their kid had to take a year long class in a 5 week period so they could be ahead in math is unreasonable. I only hope that a Teacher didn't loose a planning period or that other kids are not being added to a large section of Geometry or Algebra to make space in the schedule for Algebra 2.

It’s 13 kids not 8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't be mad at kids or parents for utilizing a path that FCPS has made available. IMO, it would be much better if FCPS expanded pathways for kids to take Algebra in 6th, providing that the kid truly is ready.

I am not mad with the parents. I do think that the parents are responsible for understanding what the next class looks like before they enroll their kid in an accelrated class that is not within the normal pacing. There are not enough students to have a complete Algebra 2 class and the online class was offered. Now schedules at the MS have been disrupted to appease the parents who choose to accelerate their kids in a non-standard path. That annoys me.

Teachers and Admin are stretched thin, mucking with Teachers schedules and prep time because 8 parents decided that their kid had to take a year long class in a 5 week period so they could be ahead in math is unreasonable. I only hope that a Teacher didn't loose a planning period or that other kids are not being added to a large section of Geometry or Algebra to make space in the schedule for Algebra 2.

If some middle schools offer it routinely, that means it IS within the range of normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An update: after a meeting with the principal and head counselor where the parents of rising 8th graders made their concerns known, the school made the decision to offer Algebra 2 in person this year. A great outcome and much appreciation for the flexibility and openness KMS showed. It really is a very good school.

Great. Kids who really need resources get fewer so that your UMC snowflakes aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the consequences of your own poor choices. Yay!

You have such venom for advanced students…why?

Shortchanging math does no good and is emblematic of education being about ‘winning’ and not about learning. There is no reason to cram a year’s worth of fundamental math into six weeks. Until there are real immediate consequences for people doing so (as opposed to the later gaps that might not be noticed for years), people will continue to do so.

A simple improvement to minimize the number of students going through this path but lacking strong fundamentals, would be to just give them a geometry test prior to the start of school, or even before school starts but after summer geometry ends. Ensure the test is equivalent to a final exam that would be given to those completing the full year version. If the summer geometry students do well enough (whatever that metric may be) on it, then they should be ready for algebra 2; if not then they clearly have holes and it would be highly advisable not to skip.

I realize that this puts more pressure on these kids during the summer, but asking for pressure is part of signing up for this summer option in the first place. So if a family commits to this, it should be done correctly, including testing the student at the end to make sure they truly learned the concepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An update: after a meeting with the principal and head counselor where the parents of rising 8th graders made their concerns known, the school made the decision to offer Algebra 2 in person this year. A great outcome and much appreciation for the flexibility and openness KMS showed. It really is a very good school.

Great. Kids who really need resources get fewer so that your UMC snowflakes aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the consequences of your own poor choices. Yay!

You have such venom for advanced students…why?

Shortchanging math does no good and is emblematic of education being about ‘winning’ and not about learning. There is no reason to cram a year’s worth of fundamental math into six weeks. Until there are real immediate consequences for people doing so (as opposed to the later gaps that might not be noticed for years), people will continue to do so.

A simple improvement to minimize the number of students going through this path but lacking strong fundamentals, would be to just give them a geometry test prior to the start of school, or even before school starts but after summer geometry ends. Ensure the test is equivalent to a final exam that would be given to those completing the full year version. If the summer geometry students do well enough (whatever that metric may be) on it, then they should be ready for algebra 2; if not then they clearly have holes and it would be highly advisable not to skip.

I realize that this puts more pressure on these kids during the summer, but asking for pressure is part of signing up for this summer option in the first place. So if a family commits to this, it should be done correctly, including testing the student at the end to make sure they truly learned the concepts.

You can't do that in a public school. Virtual Virginia credits are just as valid as FCPS credits and have to be accepted by FCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An update: after a meeting with the principal and head counselor where the parents of rising 8th graders made their concerns known, the school made the decision to offer Algebra 2 in person this year. A great outcome and much appreciation for the flexibility and openness KMS showed. It really is a very good school.

Great. Kids who really need resources get fewer so that your UMC snowflakes aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the consequences of your own poor choices. Yay!

You have such venom for advanced students…why?

Shortchanging math does no good and is emblematic of education being about ‘winning’ and not about learning. There is no reason to cram a year’s worth of fundamental math into six weeks. Until there are real immediate consequences for people doing so (as opposed to the later gaps that might not be noticed for years), people will continue to do so.

A simple improvement to minimize the number of students going through this path but lacking strong fundamentals, would be to just give them a geometry test prior to the start of school, or even before school starts but after summer geometry ends. Ensure the test is equivalent to a final exam that would be given to those completing the full year version. If the summer geometry students do well enough (whatever that metric may be) on it, then they should be ready for algebra 2; if not then they clearly have holes and it would be highly advisable not to skip.

I realize that this puts more pressure on these kids during the summer, but asking for pressure is part of signing up for this summer option in the first place. So if a family commits to this, it should be done correctly, including testing the student at the end to make sure they truly learned the concepts.

You can't do that in a public school. Virtual Virginia credits are just as valid as FCPS credits and have to be accepted by FCPS

Why couldn't you do that in VA? Are you saying a school is not legally allowed to give a student an exam to check whether they have actually learned a year's worth of material in 6 weeks? That would be strange and broken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An update: after a meeting with the principal and head counselor where the parents of rising 8th graders made their concerns known, the school made the decision to offer Algebra 2 in person this year. A great outcome and much appreciation for the flexibility and openness KMS showed. It really is a very good school.

Great. Kids who really need resources get fewer so that your UMC snowflakes aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the consequences of your own poor choices. Yay!

You have such venom for advanced students…why?

Shortchanging math does no good and is emblematic of education being about ‘winning’ and not about learning. There is no reason to cram a year’s worth of fundamental math into six weeks. Until there are real immediate consequences for people doing so (as opposed to the later gaps that might not be noticed for years), people will continue to do so.

A simple improvement to minimize the number of students going through this path but lacking strong fundamentals, would be to just give them a geometry test prior to the start of school, or even before school starts but after summer geometry ends. Ensure the test is equivalent to a final exam that would be given to those completing the full year version. If the summer geometry students do well enough (whatever that metric may be) on it, then they should be ready for algebra 2; if not then they clearly have holes and it would be highly advisable not to skip.

I realize that this puts more pressure on these kids during the summer, but asking for pressure is part of signing up for this summer option in the first place. So if a family commits to this, it should be done correctly, including testing the student at the end to make sure they truly learned the concepts.

You can't do that in a public school. Virtual Virginia credits are just as valid as FCPS credits and have to be accepted by FCPS

Why couldn't you do that in VA? Are you saying a school is not legally allowed to give a student an exam to check whether they have actually learned a year's worth of material in 6 weeks? That would be strange and broken.

It's a credit from another Virginia public school, FCPS has to accept it. If it were up to FCPS, summer geometry wouldn't even be an option after 7th- their hands are tied

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't be mad at kids or parents for utilizing a path that FCPS has made available. IMO, it would be much better if FCPS expanded pathways for kids to take Algebra in 6th, providing that the kid truly is ready.

I am not mad with the parents. I do think that the parents are responsible for understanding what the next class looks like before they enroll their kid in an accelrated class that is not within the normal pacing. There are not enough students to have a complete Algebra 2 class and the online class was offered. Now schedules at the MS have been disrupted to appease the parents who choose to accelerate their kids in a non-standard path. That annoys me.

Teachers and Admin are stretched thin, mucking with Teachers schedules and prep time because 8 parents decided that their kid had to take a year long class in a 5 week period so they could be ahead in math is unreasonable. I only hope that a Teacher didn't loose a planning period or that other kids are not being added to a large section of Geometry or Algebra to make space in the schedule for Algebra 2.

If some middle schools offer it routinely, that means it IS within the range of normal.

I think there's a difference between something being normal and something being the 'norm'. At places such as Cooper and Longfellow, there have long existed significant numbers of highly accelerated kids via parallel year round math enrichment pathways since early elementary. Clearly, many of those kids have nothing to learn from repeating a class that they took all year outside the school system, so it makes sense to offer the next level up so they can continue to learn. While this is just 'the norm' at these schools for various reasons (which are not worth going into due to the # of posts/wars already dedicated to these topics), it is certainly far from normal, where normal is defined by many/most of the other schools in the county and nearby areas not having enough students to fill even half a class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An update: after a meeting with the principal and head counselor where the parents of rising 8th graders made their concerns known, the school made the decision to offer Algebra 2 in person this year. A great outcome and much appreciation for the flexibility and openness KMS showed. It really is a very good school.

Great. Kids who really need resources get fewer so that your UMC snowflakes aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the consequences of your own poor choices. Yay!

You have such venom for advanced students…why?

Shortchanging math does no good and is emblematic of education being about ‘winning’ and not about learning. There is no reason to cram a year’s worth of fundamental math into six weeks. Until there are real immediate consequences for people doing so (as opposed to the later gaps that might not be noticed for years), people will continue to do so.

A simple improvement to minimize the number of students going through this path but lacking strong fundamentals, would be to just give them a geometry test prior to the start of school, or even before school starts but after summer geometry ends. Ensure the test is equivalent to a final exam that would be given to those completing the full year version. If the summer geometry students do well enough (whatever that metric may be) on it, then they should be ready for algebra 2; if not then they clearly have holes and it would be highly advisable not to skip.

I realize that this puts more pressure on these kids during the summer, but asking for pressure is part of signing up for this summer option in the first place. So if a family commits to this, it should be done correctly, including testing the student at the end to make sure they truly learned the concepts.

You can't do that in a public school. Virtual Virginia credits are just as valid as FCPS credits and have to be accepted by FCPS

Why couldn't you do that in VA? Are you saying a school is not legally allowed to give a student an exam to check whether they have actually learned a year's worth of material in 6 weeks? That would be strange and broken.

It's a credit from another Virginia public school, FCPS has to accept it. If it were up to FCPS, summer geometry wouldn't even be an option after 7th- their hands are tied

They have leeway to verify it because it was done in six weeks and standards and rigor from compressed virtual and in person may not be the same. Once they verify that there are no issues, yes they would have to accept it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An update: after a meeting with the principal and head counselor where the parents of rising 8th graders made their concerns known, the school made the decision to offer Algebra 2 in person this year. A great outcome and much appreciation for the flexibility and openness KMS showed. It really is a very good school.

Great. Kids who really need resources get fewer so that your UMC snowflakes aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the consequences of your own poor choices. Yay!

You have such venom for advanced students…why?

Shortchanging math does no good and is emblematic of education being about ‘winning’ and not about learning. There is no reason to cram a year’s worth of fundamental math into six weeks. Until there are real immediate consequences for people doing so (as opposed to the later gaps that might not be noticed for years), people will continue to do so.

A simple improvement to minimize the number of students going through this path but lacking strong fundamentals, would be to just give them a geometry test prior to the start of school, or even before school starts but after summer geometry ends. Ensure the test is equivalent to a final exam that would be given to those completing the full year version. If the summer geometry students do well enough (whatever that metric may be) on it, then they should be ready for algebra 2; if not then they clearly have holes and it would be highly advisable not to skip.

I realize that this puts more pressure on these kids during the summer, but asking for pressure is part of signing up for this summer option in the first place. So if a family commits to this, it should be done correctly, including testing the student at the end to make sure they truly learned the concepts.

You can't do that in a public school. Virtual Virginia credits are just as valid as FCPS credits and have to be accepted by FCPS

Why couldn't you do that in VA? Are you saying a school is not legally allowed to give a student an exam to check whether they have actually learned a year's worth of material in 6 weeks? That would be strange and broken.

It's a credit from another Virginia public school, FCPS has to accept it. If it were up to FCPS, summer geometry wouldn't even be an option after 7th- their hands are tied

They have leeway to verify it because it was done in six weeks and standards and rigor from compressed virtual and in person may not be the same. Once they verify that there are no issues, yes they would have to accept it.

No, they don't. A credit from Virtual Virginia is the same as a credit from Arlington or Alexandria public schools. They meet all of the state requirements and are accredited. Summer classes are designed for credit recovery, but there is nothing preventing students from using it to jump ahead

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An update: after a meeting with the principal and head counselor where the parents of rising 8th graders made their concerns known, the school made the decision to offer Algebra 2 in person this year. A great outcome and much appreciation for the flexibility and openness KMS showed. It really is a very good school.

Great. Kids who really need resources get fewer so that your UMC snowflakes aren't inconvenienced in the slightest by the consequences of your own poor choices. Yay!

You have such venom for advanced students…why?

Shortchanging math does no good and is emblematic of education being about ‘winning’ and not about learning. There is no reason to cram a year’s worth of fundamental math into six weeks. Until there are real immediate consequences for people doing so (as opposed to the later gaps that might not be noticed for years), people will continue to do so.

A simple improvement to minimize the number of students going through this path but lacking strong fundamentals, would be to just give them a geometry test prior to the start of school, or even before school starts but after summer geometry ends. Ensure the test is equivalent to a final exam that would be given to those completing the full year version. If the summer geometry students do well enough (whatever that metric may be) on it, then they should be ready for algebra 2; if not then they clearly have holes and it would be highly advisable not to skip.

I realize that this puts more pressure on these kids during the summer, but asking for pressure is part of signing up for this summer option in the first place. So if a family commits to this, it should be done correctly, including testing the student at the end to make sure they truly learned the concepts.

You can't do that in a public school. Virtual Virginia credits are just as valid as FCPS credits and have to be accepted by FCPS

That test already exists, it’s called geometry SOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't be mad at kids or parents for utilizing a path that FCPS has made available. IMO, it would be much better if FCPS expanded pathways for kids to take Algebra in 6th, providing that the kid truly is ready.

I am not mad with the parents. I do think that the parents are responsible for understanding what the next class looks like before they enroll their kid in an accelrated class that is not within the normal pacing. There are not enough students to have a complete Algebra 2 class and the online class was offered. Now schedules at the MS have been disrupted to appease the parents who choose to accelerate their kids in a non-standard path. That annoys me.

Teachers and Admin are stretched thin, mucking with Teachers schedules and prep time because 8 parents decided that their kid had to take a year long class in a 5 week period so they could be ahead in math is unreasonable. I only hope that a Teacher didn't loose a planning period or that other kids are not being added to a large section of Geometry or Algebra to make space in the schedule for Algebra 2.

If some middle schools offer it routinely, that means it IS within the range of normal.

I think there's a difference between something being normal and something being the 'norm'. At places such as Cooper and Longfellow, there have long existed significant numbers of highly accelerated kids via parallel year round math enrichment pathways since early elementary. Clearly, many of those kids have nothing to learn from repeating a class that they took all year outside the school system, so it makes sense to offer the next level up so they can continue to learn. While this is just 'the norm' at these schools for various reasons (which are not worth going into due to the # of posts/wars already dedicated to these topics), it is certainly far from normal, where normal is defined by many/most of the other schools in the county and nearby areas not having enough students to fill even half a class.

Wealth is growing so now it may become the norm at other schools including Kilmer.