Algebra 2 after summer geometry: online or in person?

[Anonymous]

I have a what I suspect is a pretty obscure question but would appreciate perspectives from those who have dealt with this in the past.

My son is a rising 8th grader at Kilmer MS. He took Algebra 1 in 7th grade and geometry over the summer to prepare to take Algebra 2 in 8th grade. Yesterday I got an email from FCPS Online Campus that his counselor submitted a request for him to take Algebra 2 online. That was surprising as we never requested anything, and wouldn't have, as he strongly prefers in-person instruction and would not have opted for an online class. In addition, the email said online classes come with once-a-week in person class in the evening - and the thing is that his evenings are pretty much already booked with other extracurriculars.

In short, it is an unwelcome development, and doubly so because it came without warning.

I wrote an email to the counselor and MS director requesting an explanation and reiterating my expectation that he takes his classes in person during school hours.

From informal conversations with his friends who took summer geometry, it *seems* that the school is doing it because there are too few kids who qualified for Algebra 2 to arrange a face to face class.

Have you dealt with this before? What are the options here? Can we ask for him to take Algebra 2 in person in another middle school? This is all a bit close to the school start to really figure out a plan..

What are your thoughts? Thank you in advance.

[Anonymous]

I ran the Geometry SOL numbers at Kilmer. The last year Kilmer had reportable numbers of 7th graders taking Geometry was 2017-2018 and then it was 10 students. Since then, they have not had reportable numbers for Geometry in 7th grade. I doubt that they have had an Algebra 2 class in the last 5 years given the small number of kids that would be eligible.

You can ask about your child going to another school for an in-person class but that will be hard to manage. They have to get to class, take the class, then get to their base MS for the rest of their classes. I have no idea who would provide transportation and I suspect that your childs schedule is not likely to make that a viable option.

You might be able to ask to transfer to a MS that has Algebra 2 in person but then you will probably be responsible for transportation to and from school.

[Anonymous]

You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

I'd be fine with an online class during school hours (is the school responsible for providing a quiet place? a study hall?) but one evening a week is an imposition that interferes with life outside of school.

[Anonymous]

I ran the numbers for Carson to compare to Kilmer and was surprised to see that Carson has under 10 kids taking Geometry in 7th grade the last 3 years. Prior to that, Carson had 44-58 students in Geometry in 7th grade. I wonder if this is a COVID related gap since the numbers dropped after the COVID year.

Looking at the Algebra 2 numbers from Carson there have been:

2016-2017: 44
2017-2018: 52
2018-2019: 32
2019-2020: None reported
2020-2021: 23
2021-2022: 67
2022-2023: 49

Looking at the Algebra 2 numbers from Kilmer there have been:

2016-2017: 24
2017-2018: 12
2018-2019: less then 10
2019-2020: None reported
2020-2021: less then 10
2021-2022: less then 10
2022-2023: 11

I am not sure what you were expecting from the school when you choose Geometry in the summer. The history is pretty clear at the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

I'd be fine with an online class during school hours (is the school responsible for providing a quiet place? a study hall?) but one evening a week is an imposition that interferes with life outside of school.

You didn't think to ask about this before he took Geometry in the summer? We didn't pursue Algebra in 6th grade because we knew the option would be online school or taking it as a first period class at the MS. We didn't like either option so we choose not to pursue Algebra in 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a what I suspect is a pretty obscure question but would appreciate perspectives from those who have dealt with this in the past.

My son is a rising 8th grader at Kilmer MS. He took Algebra 1 in 7th grade and geometry over the summer to prepare to take Algebra 2 in 8th grade. Yesterday I got an email from FCPS Online Campus that his counselor submitted a request for him to take Algebra 2 online. That was surprising as we never requested anything, and wouldn't have, as he strongly prefers in-person instruction and would not have opted for an online class. In addition, the email said online classes come with once-a-week in person class in the evening - and the thing is that his evenings are pretty much already booked with other extracurriculars.

In short, it is an unwelcome development, and doubly so because it came without warning.

I wrote an email to the counselor and MS director requesting an explanation and reiterating my expectation that he takes his classes in person during school hours.

From informal conversations with his friends who took summer geometry, it *seems* that the school is doing it because there are too few kids who qualified for Algebra 2 to arrange a face to face class.

Have you dealt with this before? What are the options here? Can we ask for him to take Algebra 2 in person in another middle school? This is all a bit close to the school start to really figure out a plan..

What are your thoughts? Thank you in advance.

Your kid skipped a year ahead of his school's offerings. This is something that your family chose and should not be a surprise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

I'd be fine with an online class during school hours (is the school responsible for providing a quiet place? a study hall?) but one evening a week is an imposition that interferes with life outside of school.

You didn't think to ask about this before he took Geometry in the summer? We didn't pursue Algebra in 6th grade because we knew the option would be online school or taking it as a first period class at the MS. We didn't like either option so we choose not to pursue Algebra in 6th grade.

Yes, a terrible delusion of expecting schools to to share all this with you ahead of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

I'd be fine with an online class during school hours (is the school responsible for providing a quiet place? a study hall?) but one evening a week is an imposition that interferes with life outside of school.

You didn't think to ask about this before he took Geometry in the summer? We didn't pursue Algebra in 6th grade because we knew the option would be online school or taking it as a first period class at the MS. We didn't like either option so we choose not to pursue Algebra in 6th grade.

What's a first period class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

I'd be fine with an online class during school hours (is the school responsible for providing a quiet place? a study hall?) but one evening a week is an imposition that interferes with life outside of school.

You didn't think to ask about this before he took Geometry in the summer? We didn't pursue Algebra in 6th grade because we knew the option would be online school or taking it as a first period class at the MS. We didn't like either option so we choose not to pursue Algebra in 6th grade.

Yes, a terrible delusion of expecting schools to to share all this with you ahead of time.

Did you ask the Guidance Counselor how Algebra 2 was taught at Kilmer before enrolling your child in a short Geometry course over the summer? If you asked the Counselor and the Counselor said that Algebra 2 was available, did you ask if it was in person or online? All of that could have been done in an email.

Did you look at the schools math webpage? Kilmer's Math web Page does not list Algebra 2, Carson's does. It took me under 5 minutes to check both web pages.

Did you look at the publicly available SOL site which would tell you how many kids at each school took the SOL in that class? It took me 10 minutes max to look up the SOL numbers.

You are asking to accelerate your child past the already accelerated pace that most schools offer, it behooves you to do some basic research and ask a few questions before you do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

I'd be fine with an online class during school hours (is the school responsible for providing a quiet place? a study hall?) but one evening a week is an imposition that interferes with life outside of school.

You didn't think to ask about this before he took Geometry in the summer? We didn't pursue Algebra in 6th grade because we knew the option would be online school or taking it as a first period class at the MS. We didn't like either option so we choose not to pursue Algebra in 6th grade.

Yes, a terrible delusion of expecting schools to to share all this with you ahead of time.

Did you ask the Guidance Counselor how Algebra 2 was taught at Kilmer before enrolling your child in a short Geometry course over the summer? If you asked the Counselor and the Counselor said that Algebra 2 was available, did you ask if it was in person or online? All of that could have been done in an email.

Did you look at the schools math webpage? Kilmer's Math web Page does not list Algebra 2, Carson's does. It took me under 5 minutes to check both web pages.

Did you look at the publicly available SOL site which would tell you how many kids at each school took the SOL in that class? It took me 10 minutes max to look up the SOL numbers.

You are asking to accelerate your child past the already accelerated pace that most schools offer, it behooves you to do some basic research and ask a few questions before you do that.

I applaud your research skills. I suppose I don't expect this to be a scavenger hunt for information that requires a very deep knowledge of the school system. The school could have put this all in a mass email sent to parents of summer geometry enrollees before the class started. Especially the requirement of one evening a week. I don't think it was reasonable to expect the parents to know that ahead of time, especially if you don't know what you don't know.

Do you happen to know how many kids need to be in a class before the school needs to offer an in person option?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

I'd be fine with an online class during school hours (is the school responsible for providing a quiet place? a study hall?) but one evening a week is an imposition that interferes with life outside of school.

You didn't think to ask about this before he took Geometry in the summer? We didn't pursue Algebra in 6th grade because we knew the option would be online school or taking it as a first period class at the MS. We didn't like either option so we choose not to pursue Algebra in 6th grade.

Yes, a terrible delusion of expecting schools to to share all this with you ahead of time.

Did you ask the Guidance Counselor how Algebra 2 was taught at Kilmer before enrolling your child in a short Geometry course over the summer? If you asked the Counselor and the Counselor said that Algebra 2 was available, did you ask if it was in person or online? All of that could have been done in an email.

Did you look at the schools math webpage? Kilmer's Math web Page does not list Algebra 2, Carson's does. It took me under 5 minutes to check both web pages.

Did you look at the publicly available SOL site which would tell you how many kids at each school took the SOL in that class? It took me 10 minutes max to look up the SOL numbers.

You are asking to accelerate your child past the already accelerated pace that most schools offer, it behooves you to do some basic research and ask a few questions before you do that.

I applaud your research skills. I suppose I don't expect this to be a scavenger hunt for information that requires a very deep knowledge of the school system. The school could have put this all in a mass email sent to parents of summer geometry enrollees before the class started. Especially the requirement of one evening a week. I don't think it was reasonable to expect the parents to know that ahead of time, especially if you don't know what you don't know.

Do you happen to know how many kids need to be in a class before the school needs to offer an in person option?

The school does not ever need to offer an in-person option because this class is not part of that school's curriculum and they have offered a reasonable alternative. Summer geometry is not offered through your middle school, so why would they offer any information or feedback about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

I'd be fine with an online class during school hours (is the school responsible for providing a quiet place? a study hall?) but one evening a week is an imposition that interferes with life outside of school.

You didn't think to ask about this before he took Geometry in the summer? We didn't pursue Algebra in 6th grade because we knew the option would be online school or taking it as a first period class at the MS. We didn't like either option so we choose not to pursue Algebra in 6th grade.

Yes, a terrible delusion of expecting schools to to share all this with you ahead of time.

Did you ask the Guidance Counselor how Algebra 2 was taught at Kilmer before enrolling your child in a short Geometry course over the summer? If you asked the Counselor and the Counselor said that Algebra 2 was available, did you ask if it was in person or online? All of that could have been done in an email.

Did you look at the schools math webpage? Kilmer's Math web Page does not list Algebra 2, Carson's does. It took me under 5 minutes to check both web pages.

Did you look at the publicly available SOL site which would tell you how many kids at each school took the SOL in that class? It took me 10 minutes max to look up the SOL numbers.

You are asking to accelerate your child past the already accelerated pace that most schools offer, it behooves you to do some basic research and ask a few questions before you do that.

I applaud your research skills. I suppose I don't expect this to be a scavenger hunt for information that requires a very deep knowledge of the school system. The school could have put this all in a mass email sent to parents of summer geometry enrollees before the class started. Especially the requirement of one evening a week. I don't think it was reasonable to expect the parents to know that ahead of time, especially if you don't know what you don't know.

Do you happen to know how many kids need to be in a class before the school needs to offer an in person option?

Did the school initiate the summer geometry course or did you? If they reached out to you and said we'd like your child to take the summer geometry course, then yes I would have expected the middle school to outline what that would mean for the following school year.
If you reached out to them or enrolled your child on your own, then it really is up to you to do the research and understand exactly what it means when you put your child so far off the standard curriculum path.

[Anonymous]

It was taught in-person last year at Kilmer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can ask for him to take in person at his local high school, but you will be responsible for all transportation there and back. This is the school's way of discouraging the race to no where.

They are providing a viable option for him, and that's where the school's responsibility ends.

I'd be fine with an online class during school hours (is the school responsible for providing a quiet place? a study hall?) but one evening a week is an imposition that interferes with life outside of school.

You didn't think to ask about this before he took Geometry in the summer? We didn't pursue Algebra in 6th grade because we knew the option would be online school or taking it as a first period class at the MS. We didn't like either option so we choose not to pursue Algebra in 6th grade.

Yes, a terrible delusion of expecting schools to to share all this with you ahead of time.

Did you ask the Guidance Counselor how Algebra 2 was taught at Kilmer before enrolling your child in a short Geometry course over the summer? If you asked the Counselor and the Counselor said that Algebra 2 was available, did you ask if it was in person or online? All of that could have been done in an email.

Did you look at the schools math webpage? Kilmer's Math web Page does not list Algebra 2, Carson's does. It took me under 5 minutes to check both web pages.

Did you look at the publicly available SOL site which would tell you how many kids at each school took the SOL in that class? It took me 10 minutes max to look up the SOL numbers.

You are asking to accelerate your child past the already accelerated pace that most schools offer, it behooves you to do some basic research and ask a few questions before you do that.

I applaud your research skills. I suppose I don't expect this to be a scavenger hunt for information that requires a very deep knowledge of the school system. The school could have put this all in a mass email sent to parents of summer geometry enrollees before the class started. Especially the requirement of one evening a week. I don't think it was reasonable to expect the parents to know that ahead of time, especially if you don't know what you don't know.

Do you happen to know how many kids need to be in a class before the school needs to offer an in person option?

I believe the number in ES is 16 students, I have no idea for MS. It also requires having someone who could teach the class for a small number of students without disrupting the schedules of everyone else taking the regular course offerings, Algebra 1 and Geometry. The school is not likely to overload the other math classes by moving the 25-30 kids in Algebra 1 into different Algebra 1 classes to make a class for 11 kids, last years numbers. The school is not going to hire one Teacher to teach one class for kids who have been pushed ahead in math by 3 years.

It isn't a scavenger hunt. Did you ask the guidance counselor? That is an email. The web page is readily available. Running the SOL numbers is an extra step but still not a hard one. You didn't do any type of research. You said in one post that your kid heard from friends that this is what has been happening so clearly other people had that information. Your family choose to take an unconventional path, indicating that you had done the research to know that path was available and how to complete it. Doing the research to know what the next step looks like is not unreasonable.