Trying to avoid failure to launch adults

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

Are you a bot or an eager parent of elementary schoolers?

FYI, there are plenty of people that don’t eat healthy or exercise regularly, or have tons of friends who nevertheless launched very successfully. There are people who weren’t loved, and that’s why they launched super fast - didn’t have a choice.

OTOH, the main thing for launching is to have life skills. Low tolerance for frustration combined with low life skills is usually what lands the kids in their parents’ basement. And then once they are past a certain age, those become major handicaps.

The PP's post is spot on. They are specifically talking about life skills -- they talk about financial literacy, independence, knowing how to take care of yourself physically and socially. Those are life skills. Sure, also cooking and cleaning and driving. But those are easy things to learn compared to knowing how to manage time, manage money, do the things you need to stay reasonably healthy.

Sure, you can "launch" even if you are unhealthy or have no friends. But the likelihood of things go south is very high because what happens if you get laid off, hit a financial crisis, or get sick? You have no skills for getting yourself back on track. This is how kids wind up rebounding. They seem okay but then something goes wrong and they don't know how to deal with it as adults.

I think you are bothered by the first part, about building a sense of self, developing interests, and developing a life path they can follow. But that's important to. People need goals and something to live for. You have to help your kids develop that. Sure, one way to do that would be to just say "you're on your own" and then their goal is "survive" and they will launch really fast. But most parents don't want to do that. They want their kids in their lives, they want their kids to not have to struggle just to survive. And that's the trick. You can do it, but you need to be purposeful about how you raise your kids so that you don't wind up with a college age kid who just doesn't know what they want or where they are going. The advice the PP gave is reasonable for that.

I raised two kids to adulthood this way and it worked for us.

PP. I am a parent of 3, 2 already launched. It’s cute that you think life skills can determine the outcome if your kids get sick. FYI, the only thing that can make or break it is luck - what exactly hit you and whether the family has resources to manage it. No amount of pluck can overcome terminal cancer, although being a quadriplegic is easier when the family can afford to modify the home and hire aides.

A relative’s young adult had a brain aneurysm, out of nowhere. What helped most was the father being a doctor at a major teaching hospital and the mother being able to dedicate herself 24/7 to the kid. Good luck replicating that by teaching skills for getting yourself back on track.

[Anonymous]

My perspective on this has changed as I have gotten to know more families, including my husband’s family, where young adults live at home as young adults. The move-out-at-18-you-are-on-your-own then is prevalent in American culture, but doesn’t always make sense. Plenty of people live at home while studying or working to save money. It’s also nice to be around family.

Sure, I know a handful of true failures to launch. There is usually a (mental) health issue (often self-medicated with substances) at play. I am not judging them and hope they can get to a better spot.

My takeaway for parenting is that I will do what I can to raise a confident young person, expose him to different things to see what he may be interested in, and pay attention to mental health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

Are you a bot or an eager parent of elementary schoolers?

FYI, there are plenty of people that don’t eat healthy or exercise regularly, or have tons of friends who nevertheless launched very successfully. There are people who weren’t loved, and that’s why they launched super fast - didn’t have a choice.

OTOH, the main thing for launching is to have life skills. Low tolerance for frustration combined with low life skills is usually what lands the kids in their parents’ basement. And then once they are past a certain age, those become major handicaps.

The PP's post is spot on. They are specifically talking about life skills -- they talk about financial literacy, independence, knowing how to take care of yourself physically and socially. Those are life skills. Sure, also cooking and cleaning and driving. But those are easy things to learn compared to knowing how to manage time, manage money, do the things you need to stay reasonably healthy.

Sure, you can "launch" even if you are unhealthy or have no friends. But the likelihood of things go south is very high because what happens if you get laid off, hit a financial crisis, or get sick? You have no skills for getting yourself back on track. This is how kids wind up rebounding. They seem okay but then something goes wrong and they don't know how to deal with it as adults.

I think you are bothered by the first part, about building a sense of self, developing interests, and developing a life path they can follow. But that's important to. People need goals and something to live for. You have to help your kids develop that. Sure, one way to do that would be to just say "you're on your own" and then their goal is "survive" and they will launch really fast. But most parents don't want to do that. They want their kids in their lives, they want their kids to not have to struggle just to survive. And that's the trick. You can do it, but you need to be purposeful about how you raise your kids so that you don't wind up with a college age kid who just doesn't know what they want or where they are going. The advice the PP gave is reasonable for that.

I raised two kids to adulthood this way and it worked for us.

PP. I am a parent of 3, 2 already launched. It’s cute that you think life skills can determine the outcome if your kids get sick. FYI, the only thing that can make or break it is luck - what exactly hit you and whether the family has resources to manage it. No amount of pluck can overcome terminal cancer, although being a quadriplegic is easier when the family can afford to modify the home and hire aides.

A relative’s young adult had a brain aneurysm, out of nowhere. What helped most was the father being a doctor at a major teaching hospital and the mother being able to dedicate herself 24/7 to the kid. Good luck replicating that by teaching skills for getting yourself back on track.

NP - why are you tilting at windmills? I doubt anyone considers a very sick adult as “failure to launch” for seeking support of their parents at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

NP here. I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults, and the "sense of self" part is really key. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid. On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in). One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

OP here. Our neighbor has kid who went to an elite private school, elite ivy, got a job at an extremely competitive company, quit and is now home. The mom is at a loss and seems to be doubting her parenting.

I have 3 kids. My oldest is a complete go getter, has very clear goals and does everything on his own. I am not worried about him at all.

My younger two children are TBD. My daughter is definitely kind of spoiled. Dh and I joke that she needs to marry a guy with a lot of money. I don’t want a man to be the plan for her.

Therapist PP here. Your neighbor who went to Sidwell and then HYPS and then quit a McKinsey job could accurately describe half of my clients at any given point. The adult child is filled with an immense amount of both pride and shame. Their self-perception is extreme (they view themselves as either an extreme failure or a massive success). A lot of the parenting rhetoric on DCUM seems very black-and-white thinking to me, and it’s this set of beliefs that end up creating these emotionally stunted adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Therapists focus on feelings because they have no other stills for actually surviving and thriving. Probably these kids need better planning skills or conversation skills or need to move to a lower cost area or need to lower expectations for life but instead these therapists focus on feelings so they can keep people coming back to then with their endless pity parties always telling the client other people could have done more for them. Biggest scheme of the 21st century.

Therapist PP here. I actually don’t disagree with you that too many therapists focus on feelings, but for people with personality disorders (especially BPD and NPD) it’s important to build emotional awareness, which includes being mindful (and eventually, in control) of one’s feelings.

[Anonymous]

Holy shi t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

NP here. I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults, and the "sense of self" part is really key. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid. On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in). One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

Or you could just help everyone understand that irregardless of college both life and living in an expensive area is very challenging. Maybe stop trying to find faults in everyone and find solutions. Therapists are the worst.

Wow. I am not sure you read NPs post.

[Anonymous]

OP: read Raising a Kid Who Can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think I’m some cases it’s the mother’s identity (perhaps narcissism) of being a “good mom” that causes these dynamics. I knew a stay at home who “did everything” for her family, holidays meant just showing up, mom did all the cooking and cleaning and she was thrilled to take care of her “kids” (adults). When she needed a new car, it was time for each of her three kids to get new cars as well (from Mom). Any outings to restaurants, theater, travel, involved the adult kids, never Moms peers. This mom planned everything and derived a lot of enjoyment. When the father died, it only made sense for the sons to keep living at home to help with lawn mowing, changing light bulbs, that they could do.

If they were all currently happy with the arrangement then there’s no problem with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that's the downside to having a very nice UMC life and providing a nice comfortable home. They will never want to leave. I know my kids (13 and under) have no appreciation for how good they have it. But it will become very obvious when they are on their own for their first time trying to make their own way. Home will never look so good. Maybe that will light a fire under them to find their own success but it won't be easy.

Kids can’t imagine not living at home when they’re very young. By the end of high school they can’t wait to leave no matter how comfortable a house is.

Unless the young person has some issues making it hard for them to be independent, they will choose a 6th floor walk up in NYC the size of a walk in closet to be with their peers.

[Anonymous]

We took family vacations in the summer, and both of my kids had part-time jobs starting at age 15. Kids need to learn the value of money. They are now both successful and own their own homes.

However, if they would have needed to move home to save money for a down payment or complete their grad degrees, I would have had no problem with it. But, I would want to discuss a timeline. Housing has gotten crazy expensive, so I would definitely want to help if I had kids graduating college now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You avoid failure to launch by doing the work when they are young. Build them up, help them find a sense of self and a sense of purpose. Encourage their interests and invest in opportunities to grow and deepen those interests. Get them academic support if they need it. Give them chances to grow their confidence and make sure they feel secure in your love for them and their place in your family.

Model healthy adult behaviors -- healthy eating, regular exercise, positive social lives with friends and family who contribute to well being. Teach them about financial responsibility from a young age and give them opportunities to see the benefit of saving and investing in the future.

Parents whose kids flounder in their 20s or even 30s will claim they did all this but they didn't. A well-raised person will not want to live at home doing nothing in adult hood. They might live at home for periods of time, to save for a downpayment or grad school, to help an ailing parent, to regroup after a job loss or breakup. That's fine and normal. But they won't get stuck there because they'll have the confidence and self-respect to go out and try again. Adults who don't have that didn't get the right support as minors.

NP here. I am a therapist who specializes in "failure to launch" young adults, and the "sense of self" part is really key. Most of the clients on my caseload have a Cluster B personality disorder (either BPD or NPD), or become very close to meeting diagnostic criteria for one of them. One of the key components to raising a failure to launch young adult is that they have very little sense of self and self-direction because their own desires, emotions, and wants have been railroaded by their parents during their childhood and adolescence.

A very common scenario in my therapy practice (in an UMC neighborhood not unsimilar to, say, Mclean or Bethesda in the DMV) is that the parents pushed their (temperamentally sensitive) kid to elite private schools or public schools in competitive, wealthy school districts so that their kid attends a T20 college. The innately sensitive kid is then pushed to a high-paying career path such as tech, medicine, or finance, and when they can't hack it, they move back home as a 22 year old (or a 26, or sometimes 30 year old), and the failure to launch spiral begins.

The parents usually alternate between intense pride and shame for their kid. On one hand, they are filled with intense pride that their kid is an elite college grad and feel as if it reflects on them as parents. OTOH, the parents have intense shame for their kid because he/she failed to live up to the high expectations that they placed on their kid.

But wait, you might be wondering, why weren't these parents able to pick up on the fact that their kids are characterologically more sensitive and thus not well-suited for a path of Harvard and then McKinsey? These parents are unable to notice their kid's sensitive nature because they lack emotional attunement (which, to be fair, many first-gen UMC people who had to "pull themselves by their bootstraps" are deficient in). One of the first things I do as a therapist is to ask my clients to describe themselves, and ask my client's parents to describe their kid. Oftentimes I'll notice that both the failure to launch young adult and the parents are unable to provide an accurate, fully-fleshed out description of their kid to me because all parties lack the ability to "mentalize" -- in other words, be attuned to the emotional states of themselves and others.

It's actually quite sad when I ask parents to describe their adult child to me, and they'll say some version of "Oh, you know, she's smart and hard working." I'll ask if there are any other traits, and they'll just give me a blank stare. The parents are unable to mentalize any other personality traits besides "smart and conscientious."

And I really feel for these parents. It's difficult being in this situation. But I think even the most loyal and well-adjusted of children would admit that they would rather be understood than be loved but misunderstood.

This is why I read DCUM. Thank you for sharing your experience and insight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Make sure they are working jobs beginning at 16 years of age.

+ 1 And give them chores. Don’t do everything for them. Send them to a college where they can excel. Signed, my kid just graduated and starts his $110k/year job in four weeks.

[Anonymous]

After I graduated from college, I moved back home for a few years to save money for a 20% down payment on a SFH. I was able to pay the monthly mortgage without having roommates. I loved living by myself.

I was able to sell in 5 years and buy a bigger home. Then, used the equity to buy additional homes. Now I have rental property. It helped me build wealth.

Living at home for a few years is not failure to launch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you'll have an issue unless your child has a undiagnosed or diagnosed mental illness or you are very emotionally enmeshed in such a way they cant function on their own. Just buying them nice things and not making them get a job as a teen is not going to lead to failure to launch. Just keep an eye out for mental/emotional issues.

As the mom of a 24-year-old who did not finish college and is living with me or his dad since high school (and whose older sister is now a lawyer, I can speak frrom experience. This child has had ADHD, seen the worst of our failed marriage, and had not a single siggnificant school success. If you can avoid that trifecta you should not worry.