Are kids meaner these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No longer in the DMV, but I swore there was something in the water there. Something rancid that made so many of the kids bullies. Our oldest was the same way as yours, OP, and still got bullied for not having the most recent phone, or name-brand coat, or whatever. Our younger kid would throw up before leaving for school -- the bullying took a very dark turn. We moved and our kids became much more relaxed, and happy. They gained real friendships that weren't based on financial status or things like that.

I'm still quietly haunted by being a NOVA parent, to be honest. I still find myself waiting for the shoe to drop even now, for my kid to be bullied. I took our youngest to a school event and other kids were walking past saying "hi, [name]!" and smiling and waving. It made me feel emotional, although I didn't show it.

I'm still getting used to other kids being nice kids, and it's been some years now.

Please share what state! I’m moving there lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Idk about meaner, but more critical of everything openly, like someone's sweater, someone's walk, their height...It's not the old making fun of so much as "I don't like your sweater", "you are very short", stated as a fact. Zero filter and more appearance-aware due to social media. I see it being very paralyzing and kids being afraid of everything being noticed and commented on.

This. God forbid you are short and male.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, kids are meaner now. It's part of the reason teachers are leaving education. There are no consequences for bullying, even in Elementary school. The bullies get bolder and the kids who were bullied also get meaner because the adults didn't protect them. Thank goodness there are more options for parents to get their kids out of public schools these days.

Who took away the meaningful punishment is schools? (hint: it was not the republicans).

Yes, schools famously never coddled bullies back in the olden days when Republicans ruled the earth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think relational aggression among popular kids is as high as it ever was if not worse.

I think kids who are not in this group or even more so have any kind of noted difference that makes them not a fair target...not neurotypical, LGBTQ, or really just even a "loner", "weird", whatever the word is, those kids get left alone far more than they did in our day.

My take is some kids are still the same amount of mean and they have fewer "allowed" channels to be mean so they turn on more of a smaller group to unleash the mean.

In other words, the popular kids have turned on themselves because they've gotten the message to leave vulnerable kids alone? If you're right, I don't have much sympathy for them, or the OP's daughter.

This was described to me by my teenager and it kind of made sense to me. He was in the popular crowd (and I observed what he was experiencing) and was pretty miserable and slowly moved away and found a "nerdier" crowd and is much happier. They are nice to each other. I think there is an element in the popular crowd of always being aware of your place and feeling panicked to protect it too. So it only takes a couple mean kids to really get all the rest of them to participate in the dynamic even if they know better or it's not their genuine nature. Eat or be eaten. They want to be in the group so go along even if they're not having a very good time.

This. Eat or be eaten.

Friend at work has a beautiful popular daughter. Befriends many people. Other girls quickly turned on her in MS. Lunchroom was something out of a movie. Some "friends" jealous as boys noticed her, other pissed she might be expanding the circle and/or upsetting the girls' hierarchy. My more nerdy kid and his friends completely not on anyone's radar at big HS.

Sounds like middle aged moms in certain suburbs. Wonder where these kids learn such behavior?

Yes! My daughter even commented when she got to 6th as the popular groups converged into one larger group that all the kids "knew each other from their parents being friends and having parties"

This does not happen in public school. At all. Which gets to the previous point of if you go to a private school don't complain about people being jerks and aware of status and hierarchy. Hello. Life choices.

NP. It absolutely happens in the public middle school where my kid went. Social pecking order very much determined by whose mom is friends with whom. It dissipates a little in high school, but I swear, some of these parents picked out who they want their kids to be friends with in preschool and are working every angle to make sure it stays that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Biff Tannen style bullying has gone down a lot. On the other hand Regina George bullying has gone up, and many of them figure out how to use the anti-bullying as a weapon, as well as therapy speak, anti-racism speak, etc.

+100000 Nailed it.

I agree too. They have learned how to weaponize the right phrases as tools for bullying. I do think parents and the adults in charge can be life changers. One of my kids is on the spectrum and the parents who are the most open minded and genuinely kind are the ones having their kids look out for him. There have been teachers who caught any bullying right away and found ways to turn things around and even have the bully be protective of my kid.

Then there are the others. The mom you were friends with and now her kid wants to be cool and is the first to target yours. She gets a call about an incident and rather than being mortified her kid bullied she wants you, the mother of the target, to help defend her kid. There is the teacher who wants to be liked by the kids or is oblivious or finds your and annoying who does nothing even when it happens to right in front of them.

My other child has a much easier time socially, but I have found myself drifting from the mothers of some of her friends when I hear how obsessed they are with social status and how critical they are of others. If I found out my daughter either joined in mean girl behavior or was a bystander there would be consequences. I can't control how everyone else behaves, but I am not raising someone either actively or passively dehumanizes another person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No longer in the DMV, but I swore there was something in the water there. Something rancid that made so many of the kids bullies. Our oldest was the same way as yours, OP, and still got bullied for not having the most recent phone, or name-brand coat, or whatever. Our younger kid would throw up before leaving for school -- the bullying took a very dark turn. We moved and our kids became much more relaxed, and happy. They gained real friendships that weren't based on financial status or things like that.

I'm still quietly haunted by being a NOVA parent, to be honest. I still find myself waiting for the shoe to drop even now, for my kid to be bullied. I took our youngest to a school event and other kids were walking past saying "hi, [name]!" and smiling and waving. It made me feel emotional, although I didn't show it.

I'm still getting used to other kids being nice kids, and it's been some years now.

It is not the water, but it IS D.C. the answer is in this thread:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1179978.page


Tl;dr: DC is a nasty place which attracts mean people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Biff Tannen style bullying has gone down a lot. On the other hand Regina George bullying has gone up, and many of them figure out how to use the anti-bullying as a weapon, as well as therapy speak, anti-racism speak, etc.

+100000 Nailed it.

I agree too. They have learned how to weaponize the right phrases as tools for bullying. I do think parents and the adults in charge can be life changers. One of my kids is on the spectrum and the parents who are the most open minded and genuinely kind are the ones having their kids look out for him. There have been teachers who caught any bullying right away and found ways to turn things around and even have the bully be protective of my kid.

Then there are the others. The mom you were friends with and now her kid wants to be cool and is the first to target yours. She gets a call about an incident and rather than being mortified her kid bullied she wants you, the mother of the target, to help defend her kid. There is the teacher who wants to be liked by the kids or is oblivious or finds your and annoying who does nothing even when it happens to right in front of them.

My other child has a much easier time socially, but I have found myself drifting from the mothers of some of her friends when I hear how obsessed they are with social status and how critical they are of others. If I found out my daughter either joined in mean girl behavior or was a bystander there would be consequences. I can't control how everyone else behaves, but I am not raising someone either actively or passively dehumanizes another person.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think relational aggression among popular kids is as high as it ever was if not worse.

I think kids who are not in this group or even more so have any kind of noted difference that makes them not a fair target...not neurotypical, LGBTQ, or really just even a "loner", "weird", whatever the word is, those kids get left alone far more than they did in our day.

My take is some kids are still the same amount of mean and they have fewer "allowed" channels to be mean so they turn on more of a smaller group to unleash the mean.

In other words, the popular kids have turned on themselves because they've gotten the message to leave vulnerable kids alone? If you're right, I don't have much sympathy for them, or the OP's daughter.

DP. She’s probably talking about the gatekept kids, not the other popular ones. The gatekept kids were always the main targets, but they’re practically the only ones now.

[Anonymous]

I do not think kids are any meaner. As a former victim of bullying so severe that I would call it unimaginable to most people who have not experienced it, I am pretty sure it's not possible for kids to be meaner. However, it is harder for victims to escape, thanks to social media. I was able to move to another school and get away from most of it. Kids today can't escape, no matter where they go. It's sad and scary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Biff Tannen style bullying has gone down a lot. On the other hand Regina George bullying has gone up, and many of them figure out how to use the anti-bullying as a weapon, as well as therapy speak, anti-racism speak, etc.

Oh yeah. Their parents too. Bullies aren't, contrary to what people think, insecure kids with bad family lives. They are kids with superior social skills, who have become addicted to the power that social manipulation gives them. Their parents are the same way. If they don't like someone, they simply call that person the bully, even if their is no evidence of it at all. Then they use that as justification to target and destroy that person - after all, that person is the bad one. If anyone calls them a bully, they are the first to accuse that person of trying to shame them by calling them a bully. You can't stop these people because they are always one step ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Biff Tannen style bullying has gone down a lot. On the other hand Regina George bullying has gone up, and many of them figure out how to use the anti-bullying as a weapon, as well as therapy speak, anti-racism speak, etc.

Oh yeah. Their parents too. Bullies aren't, contrary to what people think, insecure kids with bad family lives. They are kids with superior social skills, who have become addicted to the power that social manipulation gives them. Their parents are the same way. If they don't like someone, they simply call that person the bully, even if their is no evidence of it at all. Then they use that as justification to target and destroy that person - after all, that person is the bad one. If anyone calls them a bully, they are the first to accuse that person of trying to shame them by calling them a bully. You can't stop these people because they are always one step ahead.

Two things can be true at the same time. My youngest brother was a bully, had superior social skills, was addicted to the power, and you would be surprised by how insecure he was(and still is) about his overall averageness(normal family life, though). He came across as extremely confident, but I know the man behind the curtains, and learned how to recognize people like him(many cases were confirmed).

Those kids are usually like the wizard of Oz.

[Anonymous]

My teen sons have a really great group of friends that have been together since Kindergarten. They are split up among different HS now--some public, some private. But, they are so nice and supportive to one another. I overhear their conversations and yeah there is some silliness, light-hearted teasing at times--but I also have heard them say some really comforting stuff. They all have empathy. But, my kids aren't running with the 'fastest' crowd. They play their sport and get good grades and chill on the weekends at one another's homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not think kids are any meaner. As a former victim of bullying so severe that I would call it unimaginable to most people who have not experienced it, I am pretty sure it's not possible for kids to be meaner. However, it is harder for victims to escape, thanks to social media. I was able to move to another school and get away from most of it. Kids today can't escape, no matter where they go. It's sad and scary.

There was some awful bullying growing up in the 70s/80s--and nobody really cared or did anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, kids are meaner now. It's part of the reason teachers are leaving education. There are no consequences for bullying, even in Elementary school. The bullies get bolder and the kids who were bullied also get meaner because the adults didn't protect them. Thank goodness there are more options for parents to get their kids out of public schools these days.

Who took away the meaningful punishment is schools? (hint: it was not the republicans).

Yes, schools famously never coddled bullies back in the olden days when Republicans ruled the earth

Seriously. They still had corporal punishment when my spouse was in HS (rural, red America), and both he and his brother were bullied in HS. And god forbid anyone suggest the football star golden boy be kinder to the other kids, they just needed to toughen up and stop letting him push their heads in the toilet bowl! (Said football star is now living in a trailer, sporting a bad combover, and selling used cars, so at least karma showed up in the end.)

And I can assure you that no boys who grabbed my ass or made lewd comments about girl's bodies in HS was every punished by the god-fearing, family values Republican administration either. Even though we had a draconian dress code and nothing was "on display to tempt the boys".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think relational aggression among popular kids is as high as it ever was if not worse.

I think kids who are not in this group or even more so have any kind of noted difference that makes them not a fair target...not neurotypical, LGBTQ, or really just even a "loner", "weird", whatever the word is, those kids get left alone far more than they did in our day.

My take is some kids are still the same amount of mean and they have fewer "allowed" channels to be mean so they turn on more of a smaller group to unleash the mean.

In other words, the popular kids have turned on themselves because they've gotten the message to leave vulnerable kids alone? If you're right, I don't have much sympathy for them, or the OP's daughter.

This was described to me by my teenager and it kind of made sense to me. He was in the popular crowd (and I observed what he was experiencing) and was pretty miserable and slowly moved away and found a "nerdier" crowd and is much happier. They are nice to each other. I think there is an element in the popular crowd of always being aware of your place and feeling panicked to protect it too. So it only takes a couple mean kids to really get all the rest of them to participate in the dynamic even if they know better or it's not their genuine nature. Eat or be eaten. They want to be in the group so go along even if they're not having a very good time.

This. Eat or be eaten.

Friend at work has a beautiful popular daughter. Befriends many people. Other girls quickly turned on her in MS. Lunchroom was something out of a movie. Some "friends" jealous as boys noticed her, other pissed she might be expanding the circle and/or upsetting the girls' hierarchy. My more nerdy kid and his friends completely not on anyone's radar at big HS.

Sounds like middle aged moms in certain suburbs. Wonder where these kids learn such behavior?

Yes! My daughter even commented when she got to 6th as the popular groups converged into one larger group that all the kids "knew each other from their parents being friends and having parties"

This does not happen in public school. At all. Which gets to the previous point of if you go to a private school don't complain about people being jerks and aware of status and hierarchy. Hello. Life choices.

NP. It absolutely happens in the public middle school where my kid went. Social pecking order very much determined by whose mom is friends with whom. It dissipates a little in high school, but I swear, some of these parents picked out who they want their kids to be friends with in preschool and are working every angle to make sure it stays that way.

+1

Same at our school (UMC suburban public). I thought all of that would go away as the kids got older, but it still very much applies.

Also agree with a Pp who said the main targets are “kids who are on the periphery” of the popular group in some way (due to being a friend of a friend, on the same sports team or similar etc). The kids who are very unusual or unpopular (not sure how better to describe) seem to be just ignored entirely. Not included but not picked on either.