Rant: Tell Kids to Stop Bugging Professors for Internships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a professor and regularly get emails from high school students who ask for research internships. They haven't finished high school, much less basic undergraduate courses in my field. I don't know who encourages this, but obviously those kids didn't think up this idea independently.

"Dear Professor X:

I am very interested in your work after reading [one of my obscure papers from a web search]. I would like to help you with research because I want to have a career [making a lot of money by doing something I know nothing about]."

This is insulting to their high school teachers, who have a lot to teach them.

Blame the college admissions process fella! Talk to your peers/co-workers and have them change their stupid process. Colleges have questions along the lines of "Why XXX college?" and guess what, kids make up crap like "I love Crystal Meth Biology, love the work Professor Impatient is doing and would love to work in his lab. After lab, I want to grab late night pizza at Local Italianao's". Your idiot colleagues think the kid is genuine because he used a real prof's name and a real pizza place that is open late nights, and that the kid is really into your college. The kid does that for every college he applies to. Why are you now upset if the kid just follows the same playbook and contacts one of y'all in real life? You trained him after all..

Preach!

Professor, drop by your admissions office and show them that email and ask them who encourages this.

This! I hate every thread blaming students who are doing what any person in their position would do to be competitive. It's not their fault. Blame the system that set this up that YOU, OP, are much more a part of than any high school kid.

+1. First, my kid went to TJ, and plenty of kids there actually did secure substantive research internships at competitive colleges and places like NIH after junior year. That resulted in publication and even patents in the kids name, regeneron awards, etc. I mean, not my kid, who was very middle of the pack by TJ standards. But, several of his friends.

Second, knocking on your office door, handing you a resume and inviting themselves in crosses the line. I think we can all agree on that. But an email? Seriously? What’s the issue? Just draft and save a standard letter like:

Dear (insert name here)— thank you for your interest in interning in my lab. I’m always excited to see bright young students interested in the field of goat yoga (or whatever). Unfortunately, I cannot offer you a position because my policy is to only hire students who have taken my goat yoga, the deep dive class/ have completed at least four semesters at Goat U/ insert your hiring criteria here. However, I hope that if you attend Goat U and remain interested in Goat yoga, you will take my Goat studies class and apply for an internship at that point. Go Giats! Sincerely, me.

Insert kids name, cut and paste into your letter and you have dealt with the email in a polite and professional manner in 30 seconds. Done. If you really can’t manage that, you have bigger issues than HS student emails.

Plus, as the parent of two college kids (one of whom is in his third year of research with his advisor), I find the OP incredibly frustrating. College professors love to gripe about helicopter parents and kids who come to college unable to do things like, say, prepare a resume and appropriately and professionally ask for internships. And that’s fair. 18-22 year old college kids should not need mom and dad to help them apply for internships. But they have to learn how to complete a resume and job application and interview etiquette somewhere. It doesn’t happen by magic. If you want the kids in your college classes to be able to appropriately and professionally discuss internship opportunities with you— without parents being involved— AND you don’t want to hear from high school kids, when and how do you expect them to learn these skills? Securing a research position and getting a summer job at Chic Fil A are not the same thing.

And lastly, at least some of these kids are genuinely interested in your research and want to learn more. If you are an educator, why would you discourage that?

PS— high school teachers do have a lot to offer. But very rarely are they completing innovative research in high school chem labs or working with students outside of remedial classes during the summer. That’s just not part of the job.

Suck it up. Create a form rejection letter, hit reply and paste and move on. You would be able to do this for every HS kid who applies over a several year period in the amount of time you will spend whining on this thread about OMG! Why won’t HS kids stop taking initiative? Especially since a professor who would write the OP is the type who is simultaneously complaining that this generation of kids won’t take initiative and can’t do anything without a parent holding their hand.

— signed, a parent in tech who is contacted by HS kids looking for summer internships. I’ve hired one who was already known to me through TJ (and they were better than most college interns). I’ve also never seen it as a bad thing or had an issue sending out polite, professional rejections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a lab manager and my boss (the principal investigator) would task me every summer with handholding some high school student. They were generally just some random who had emailed him and he would always put their name on a publication! I noticed that every single one was the same ethnicity he was.

Since you used the term "ethnicity" I assume that person was not White and you are. FYI, when White people do this, it's called 'networking'.

No, it’s called discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While we are on this topic, my child reached out to a professor connected to a high school research program. DC's varied interests are aligned with the professor and it shows in their experiences. This was one of among a few emails DC has sent to professors (we are completely unconnected people so this is the only way to get experience).

Surprisingly, this professor wrote back within 24 hours. They were not encouraging or discouraging but I thought it was encouraging that they wrote back at all.

DC responded with another nice email and again, professor responded very quickly but, again, very tersely, and in a non-committal way. Does it mean anything that they at least responding? Please give me a shred of hope!

I was also considering the idea that the professor was twisted and playing with DC. The way they answered was a bit odd. The OP makes me think there may be people out there who do this.

It's odd because it's odd. Professors are not going to work with or hire high school students. IT DOES NOT WORK THIS WAY don't do it! Stick to official programs for high schoolers!!!!!

Except, in the DMV, they do, even without nepotism. And maybe it’s only the top kids at the top magnets. But the top 10-20% of kids at TJ etc are getting internships with college professors or in high profile federal agencies and starting their senior project over the summer. Lots of kids? No. But them again, how many unhooked kids are getting into MIT, HYP and Stanford? (Hint: about as many kids as get college level research internships at NIH or in college labs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the MCPS magnet programs require the kids to do a research internship.

+ 1
The SMCS at Poolesvillle and SMACS at Blair. Students are told to send numerous requests to college professors and it is nerve-racking for the students too.

If they are asking students to do this blindly that is unethical and misguided. Someone should inform them to stop doing this.

Someone should inform you to learn English grammar. Just sayin.

[Anonymous]

I was a grad student and postdoc in a lab that sometimes got these requests. Thank goodness the PI was nicer than the OP. If there’s a way for the kid to help out/learn something— great! If there’s no spot for them, a polite email explaining that works just fine. It is in no way “rude” for a kid to ask. You are not too good to respond kindly to a teenager’s email (or even ignore it without complaining). And I’ve never heard of research professors who “wouldn’t even work with an undergrad.” 🙄 Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I blame the parents. Let the kids be kids. Tell them they don’t need to do research in HS to be successful in life. Don’t encourage them to harass professors. Bring back sanity - please.

It’s not the parents of current high school students who made elite college admissions a high stakes nightmare. That would be… well, there plenty of blame to go around, but USNWR and colleges themselves deserve a lot of the blame. Agree that the path to sanity starts with college admissions offices, who do have the power to pull out of USNWR and make the admissions process more fair and transparent, like it is in literally every other country.

You might think a UMC HS kid lifeguarding or working for Parks and Rec is better for their personal growth than working in a lab. And I don’t disagree. But, I have yet to see any evidence that T-whatever number you are gunning for college admissions offices have gotten that memo. Maybe if top colleges started valuing public facing work, highly motivated UMC HS students would do it.

Until then, completely agree. Your issue is with your schools admissions office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid did his HS research internship by applying to a government institution program. He was able to produce some useful work that was used in a research paper by the PI. He was credited as a co-author, though not before he could apply to colleges. Anyhow, he got admitted to the same agency's college internship program on the dint of his earlier work and additional skills that he had acquired in college and this time he got paid also. He has been asked to return again.

So there may be some HS kids who are able to produce worthwhile research. Not every HS student is a duffer.

And it still would have been exceptionally rude and presumptuous to just email a professor. Your kid applied to a program. Entirely different.

Because that particular agency actually had a program and it takes a handful of people only. But he also emailed to a lot of professors that were working on his area of interest, because, getting internships without any connections can be hard and so all he could do was be a top-notch student and keep on applying. Yes, these students were taught how to do research, how to write a resume, professional letters, how to dress, how to interview etc etc, as a part of getting them ready to actually be an asset and not a nuisance in the school itself. The magnet program was producing quality researchers and then asking them to apply. No one needed to babysit them at work, and these students not only had to do research, but write papers, present papers and submit to top scientific competitions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I blame the parents. Let the kids be kids. Tell them they don’t need to do research in HS to be successful in life. Don’t encourage them to harass professors. Bring back sanity - please.

If you consider polite emails you can simply filter out or delete to be harassment, you have bigger issues than anyone on this thread can help you with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would never rely on a high school student for academic research purposes.

"rely"?

You know how education works, right?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

And the hospitals lawyers are ok with this? Can’t imagine it.

[Anonymous]

I think the whole system needs an overhaul. High school kids interning for college professors for the summer? Seriously?

They have their whole lives to be engaged in serious academic and professional pursuits. Why can’t they just be kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a professor and regularly get emails from high school students who ask for research internships. They haven't finished high school, much less basic undergraduate courses in my field. I don't know who encourages this, but obviously those kids didn't think up this idea independently.

"Dear Professor X:

I am very interested in your work after reading [one of my obscure papers from a web search]. I would like to help you with research because I want to have a career [making a lot of money by doing something I know nothing about]."

This is insulting to their high school teachers, who have a lot to teach them.

This is a fake email. No professor sent this. High School kids have been seeking and getting internships with college professors for 20 plus years.

This is some jerk of a parent sending this out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

And the hospitals lawyers are ok with this? Can’t imagine it.

Yes hospital lawyers are ok with this. Happens all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the MCPS magnet programs require the kids to do a research internship.

+ 1
The SMCS at Poolesvillle and SMACS at Blair. Students are told to send numerous requests to college professors and it is nerve-racking for the students too.

If they are asking students to do this blindly that is unethical and misguided. Someone should inform them to stop doing this.

The kids all seem to find someone to work with them. I can see how this would be annoying but from what I saw, I don’t think it ended up taking a lot of the professors time. My kid definitely got at least one nasty response though from a professor who told him he was worthless since he was still in HS. Maybe if you are that person just ignore random emails like the rest of us professionals.

Why would any professor risk “hiring” a minor unaffiliated with the school for something a freshman could do? Why does anyone think a professor could really use the help of a high school student?

College applications are ridiculous. The people most likely to benefit from this are, as always, people with connections. Because I can’t imagine a scenario in this day and age where a professor who didn’t know the kid at all would say this is a smart thing for them to do.

Professors do this all the time. No risk involved.