Rant: Tell Kids to Stop Bugging Professors for Internships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a professor and regularly get emails from high school students who ask for research internships. They haven't finished high school, much less basic undergraduate courses in my field. I don't know who encourages this, but obviously those kids didn't think up this idea independently.

"Dear Professor X:

I am very interested in your work after reading [one of my obscure papers from a web search]. I would like to help you with research because I want to have a career [making a lot of money by doing something I know nothing about]."

This is insulting to their high school teachers, who have a lot to teach them.

Well, so many professors give this chances to kids of people in their social circles which leads others to think of it as something legit and worth trying for. Not everyone's mommy or daddy are well-connected or feel comfortable asking for favors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did a research experience in a summer program in high school. It's a great way to build a pipeline of future scientists.

It's a shame that some professors, who have a cushy taxpayer funded jobs, are so selfish.
You should be creating more programs to expose more high schoolers to research, not just the ones whose parents prepped them into TJ and SMACS.

Um, this is what college is for.

As for the program you did, that is different than expecting 17yo Luke whose parents are friends with the dean to enter data or interview subjects for serious peer-reviewed research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

And the hospitals lawyers are ok with this? Can’t imagine it.

DP. Are you at all familiar with the application process for medical school? Shadowing experience is basically a must at most schools. Doctors and hospitals are very used to these requests. Many of them did it themselves.

I worked for a hospital and it was hard enough for anyone to get into work or see a loved one without a badge or signing paperwork. The idea that a single doctor can allow a total stranger to shadow them without the hospital being involved is absurd. You keep forgetting that professors also work for an organization with policies, procedures, and legal teams.

As the professor here explained, you parents have no idea what academia is like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

And the hospitals lawyers are ok with this? Can’t imagine it.

DP. Are you at all familiar with the application process for medical school? Shadowing experience is basically a must at most schools. Doctors and hospitals are very used to these requests. Many of them did it themselves.

I worked for a hospital and it was hard enough for anyone to get into work or see a loved one without a badge or signing paperwork. The idea that a single doctor can allow a total stranger to shadow them without the hospital being involved is absurd. You keep forgetting that professors also work for an organization with policies, procedures, and legal teams.

As the professor here explained, you parents have no idea what academia is like.

apparently the admissions office doesn’t know either. Why don’t you tell them about it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a professor and regularly get emails from high school students who ask for research internships. They haven't finished high school, much less basic undergraduate courses in my field. I don't know who encourages this, but obviously those kids didn't think up this idea independently.

"Dear Professor X:

I am very interested in your work after reading [one of my obscure papers from a web search]. I would like to help you with research because I want to have a career [making a lot of money by doing something I know nothing about]."

This is insulting to their high school teachers, who have a lot to teach them.

Well, so many professors give this chances to kids of people in their social circles which leads others to think of it as something legit and worth trying for. Not everyone's mommy or daddy are well-connected or feel comfortable asking for favors.

Nepotism is everywhere. Despite being the child of two college professors, my kids have not benefited from that at all. But they DID watch lots of friends benefit from their family’s political and social connections. The sense of entitlement regarding access to professors with no educational relationship to your kid is mind boggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

And the hospitals lawyers are ok with this? Can’t imagine it.

DP. Are you at all familiar with the application process for medical school? Shadowing experience is basically a must at most schools. Doctors and hospitals are very used to these requests. Many of them did it themselves.

I worked for a hospital and it was hard enough for anyone to get into work or see a loved one without a badge or signing paperwork. The idea that a single doctor can allow a total stranger to shadow them without the hospital being involved is absurd. You keep forgetting that professors also work for an organization with policies, procedures, and legal teams.

As the professor here explained, you parents have no idea what academia is like.

apparently the admissions office doesn’t know either. Why don’t you tell them about it

You get research opportunities through programs designed for that. You don’t cold call professors asking them to give you something to do. Unbelievable entitlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a professor and regularly get emails from high school students who ask for research internships. They haven't finished high school, much less basic undergraduate courses in my field. I don't know who encourages this, but obviously those kids didn't think up this idea independently.

"Dear Professor X:

I am very interested in your work after reading [one of my obscure papers from a web search]. I would like to help you with research because I want to have a career [making a lot of money by doing something I know nothing about]."

This is insulting to their high school teachers, who have a lot to teach them.

I can't even get my college aged kid to reach out like this...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

And the hospitals lawyers are ok with this? Can’t imagine it.

Huh? I was just at my radiation appointment and the front desk folks and the techs were talking about the HS Shadows arriving in a bit, and I saw them.

Our HS 100% does shadow days at healthcare facilities. Yours probably does, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did a research experience in a summer program in high school. It's a great way to build a pipeline of future scientists.

It's a shame that some professors, who have a cushy taxpayer funded jobs, are so selfish.
You should be creating more programs to expose more high schoolers to research, not just the ones whose parents prepped them into TJ and SMACS.

I am a prof at a private institution. Most higher ed institutions are private.

I had my salary cut during the pandemic.
My retirement contributions were stopped for two years.
I make under 80K a year, and that includes overloads, grant funding, and other extras that are not part of my salary.
I work my ass off. Even the summer, all 12 months.
Cushy, it is not.
If I were not married to a high earner I could not do my job and support my family.

My job is helping to advance the education and lives of college students with fewer resources (which is the demographic of most of my students). My primary obligation is to give THEM opportunities. And though I don't, my colleagues do have opportunities for younger under-resourced kids in the pipeline. But there is a process, and it is not emailing faculty cold.

I don't know why you are not hearing it: these programs exist. But they are not accessible via cold emails. Here are some more high profile ones: https://blog.collegevine.com/research-opportunities-high-school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

And the hospitals lawyers are ok with this? Can’t imagine it.

DP. Are you at all familiar with the application process for medical school? Shadowing experience is basically a must at most schools. Doctors and hospitals are very used to these requests. Many of them did it themselves.

I worked for a hospital and it was hard enough for anyone to get into work or see a loved one without a badge or signing paperwork. The idea that a single doctor can allow a total stranger to shadow them without the hospital being involved is absurd. You keep forgetting that professors also work for an organization with policies, procedures, and legal teams.

As the professor here explained, you parents have no idea what academia is like.

apparently the admissions office doesn’t know either. Why don’t you tell them about it

You get research opportunities through programs designed for that. You don’t cold call professors asking them to give you something to do. Unbelievable entitlement.

Or through rich dads and fancy connections

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

And the hospitals lawyers are ok with this? Can’t imagine it.

Huh? I was just at my radiation appointment and the front desk folks and the techs were talking about the HS Shadows arriving in a bit, and I saw them.

Our HS 100% does shadow days at healthcare facilities. Yours probably does, too.

Shadowing is not interning, and would be a sanctioned program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Imagine writing to a doctor at a hospital and asking if you, a high schooler, could help them find something to do there for your resume? Ridiculous.

Appalling that parents or teachers would encourage this. Have some respect.

What? My husband is a doctor at a DC area hospital and he has let HS kids shadow him on any number of occasions. Usually it’s a favor to a friend (head of his department’s kid once a week for a summer), but sometimes it’s random outreach that appeals to him for some reason (and an applicant from his fairly uncommon country of origin would absolutely do that).

And the hospitals lawyers are ok with this? Can’t imagine it.

Huh? I was just at my radiation appointment and the front desk folks and the techs were talking about the HS Shadows arriving in a bit, and I saw them.

Our HS 100% does shadow days at healthcare facilities. Yours probably does, too.

And they went through the hospital. Through the proper channels. They didn’t call a tech and say hey, can you let me do something for my resume?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a professor and regularly get emails from high school students who ask for research internships. They haven't finished high school, much less basic undergraduate courses in my field. I don't know who encourages this, but obviously those kids didn't think up this idea independently.

"Dear Professor X:

I am very interested in your work after reading [one of my obscure papers from a web search]. I would like to help you with research because I want to have a career [making a lot of money by doing something I know nothing about]."

This is insulting to their high school teachers, who have a lot to teach them.

We (both DH and I run research groups at universities) get such emails all the time. It is hard to discern whether this is genuine interest or a college app gimmick (the money part, we've never seen). Our response is always -- thanks for your interest but our research may not be best suited for high school students. This is in part because however advanced, most high school students do not have the preparation to meaningfully contribute. Moreover, we are already mentoring undergraduates (in many cases freshman who are not much farther along than these high school students) and it is difficult to ask the graduate students/techs/postdocs to baby yet another person. Finally, for experimental labs, all personnel need to undergo mandatory safety training -- these can only be done by individuals with university access credentials.

That said, if they clearly articulate their capabilities (e.g. I am a python/MATLAB wiz!) and these might be useful to the lab, then we certainly will take them on.
When I was a postdoc, we had a high school kid code a gaming environment experiment for a study that was published in Nature. The kid in question is a leading researcher now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a lab manager and my boss (the principal investigator) would task me every summer with handholding some high school student. They were generally just some random who had emailed him and he would always put their name on a publication! I noticed that every single one was the same ethnicity he was.

You mean white? Yes, when I was in grad school the PI and all the students, postdocs and volunteers were all white as well. Luckily times are changing.

How OLD are you that you only saw white people working in laboratory science?? Did you study under Watson and Crick?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did a research experience in a summer program in high school. It's a great way to build a pipeline of future scientists.

It's a shame that some professors, who have a cushy taxpayer funded jobs, are so selfish.
You should be creating more programs to expose more high schoolers to research, not just the ones whose parents prepped them into TJ and SMACS.

I am a prof at a private institution. Most higher ed institutions are private.

I had my salary cut during the pandemic.
My retirement contributions were stopped for two years.
I make under 80K a year, and that includes overloads, grant funding, and other extras that are not part of my salary.
I work my ass off. Even the summer, all 12 months.
Cushy, it is not.

18 million people got laid off during Covid. You kept your job. You probably got to work from home. You still have tenure or are on track for it. Quit crying for sympathy.