Why don’t schools make you just through some hoops for redshirting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could someone please point me to the anti-redshirting coalition that apparently is a united front against all redshirting, that several PPs have referenced?

I thought there were just a variety of attitudes/perspectives about when people should send kids "on time" versus waiting. I was not aware there was apparently an organized group with talking points.

Drama queen. Good Lord. How do you get through your day?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

Yeah 7 in K is crazy. I would assume the child was held back if they’re that old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the school is just don’t care. they have no incentive to do it. Older kids are easier for them.

No incentive. Exactly. They don't see this negatively harming the rest of the kids to such an extent that they need to ban the practice. Because it would be really easy to do if it had all these terrible consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can confirm there is no red shirting in NYC. Our K class is all kids born in 2018. I have a March kid who is one of the oldest.

Another confirmation here. My daughter turned 5 in November of Kindergarten and there were 4 kids younger than her in class. They're very strict against red-shirting, I think I know of maybe 2 kids out of more than 100 in her grade who, because they moved from out of the city or whatever, are not born in 2015, my DD's birth year.

Redshirting is also rare-to-impossible in DCPS. I think you can do it if you send your kid to private through K and then move to your IB -- they will put your kid in 1st even if age wise they would normally be in 2nd because they will follow the age progression of the prior school. They will also do it if there is a clear diagnosis and an IEP in place and the IEP team agrees that redshirting makes sense. I also think there are some at risk who wind up accidentally redshirted because, due to neglect or unstable housing or other issues, they do not get enrolled in school on time.

But the type of redshirting OP is talking about is really the purview of rich suburban districts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could someone please point me to the anti-redshirting coalition that apparently is a united front against all redshirting, that several PPs have referenced?

I thought there were just a variety of attitudes/perspectives about when people should send kids "on time" versus waiting. I was not aware there was apparently an organized group with talking points.

Drama queen. Good Lord. How do you get through your day?

I'm just confused. I keep seeing all these posts about "the anti-redshirters" but I can't find them. I see some different posts arguing about different approaches to redshirting, including some people who would like there to be some narrower parameters around it, but these posters don't seem to have a uniform argument or be part of some movement, so I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Red shirting is bullshit. It’s basically outright cheating unless you are a month or two away from the cutoff.

Even in soccer leagues we have strict age cut offs to prevent older kids from being in same team as the younger ones. But somehow school sports think it’s just hunky dory to have almost two years differential in age on a boys team in middle school where there is a huge difference in size and aggression with age.

Cheating is breaking the rules. What rules is redshirting breaking? The schools know exactly how old the kids are.

The problem is that age cutoffs are presented as a rule but then are treated as a suggestion. OP is saying that it would be better to create more clarity around that so that families could make informed decisions.

I think the main reason redshirting gets a bad name is because in certain districts, people get blindsided by it. This happens because the rule is not clearly explained, and people are surprised to discover how much of an age gap there can be in the same grade. If you make the rule more clear and communicate it to everyone, there won't be surprises and people can make informed decisions.

My sister when through this with her kids. She had no clue redshirting was even a thing with her oldest, who has a summer birthday and wound up in a grade with a lot of much older kids and it was not a great fit. She just followed the age cut off thinking that was the rule and not realizing others didn't view it that way. And once your kid is in a grade like that, it's hard to go back and change it because there is a lot more stigma around "holding back" than redshirting, plus often kids are on target academically and the repercussions are just social, so then you are stuck with no good options.

She wised up with her second, who she redshirted with a July birthday and he's much happier. But that's only because she had the trial and error of the first, who got screwed. A clearly defined rule would have made for a better school experience for my nephew (and potentially also his classmates).

Clarity is good.

I am not sure new rules should be made because your sister can’t be bothered to talk to or learn about her own school district, while other parents clearly did.

No, this is a common thing -- parents won't redshirt with a first child but then will with a subsequent child because they "wise up." Often redshirting is not something a first time parent can understand because it's a sort of hidden nuance of the system.

Redshirting is essentially a loophole that is mostly intended for kids "on the bubble" -- kids close to the cut off where they really aren't ready. Most parents intuitively understand that if their kid is close to the cutoff and was particularly immature for the age or had developmental issues, they'd probably hold them back from K, maybe checking with the school to make sure it's okay.

But because age cutoffs are often framed to permit that kind of decision, sometimes people whose kids are not at all on the bubble -- they are of age well before the cut off and they have no maturity or developmental issues that would indicate that they need to wait -- exploit it because they think it will give their kid an advantage academically or, sometimes, athletically or socially. And that's what results in a K class with ages ranging from 5 to 7.

OP is saying go ahead and keep redshirting as a concept for kids on the bubble, but close it as a loophole for kids who aren't on the bubble but have parents who want to try and garner every advantage. This would have no impact on most redshirting -- most kids who are redshirted fall in that on the bubble group where their birthdays are close to the cut off and they have some maturity or developmental issues. And kids who are older but have pronounced maturity/developmental issues could still redshirt, it would just need to be cleared. The only people who would be impacted by what OP is proposing is the people with developmentally normal kids who are well past the cut off but who want an age advantage for whatever reason. Well good, those are the people who give redshirting a bad name when it's actually a perfectly normal, acceptable practice.

OP is arguing for redshirting to be preserved for those parents who are educated and wealthy enough to get whatever assessments OP thinks are needed.

My school district had language on their website regarding age that was very clear to read. I didn’t redshirt but of course I knew it was a possibility. It was also discussed in orientation meetings held. It was not remotely hidden. Or rather, it was only hidden for those parents who could not bother to read the information the school district provided. I don’t think policies need to be drawn up to manage those parents who can’t be bothered to engage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could someone please point me to the anti-redshirting coalition that apparently is a united front against all redshirting, that several PPs have referenced?

I thought there were just a variety of attitudes/perspectives about when people should send kids "on time" versus waiting. I was not aware there was apparently an organized group with talking points.

Drama queen. Good Lord. How do you get through your day?

I'm just confused. I keep seeing all these posts about "the anti-redshirters" but I can't find them. I see some different posts arguing about different approaches to redshirting, including some people who would like there to be some narrower parameters around it, but these posters don't seem to have a uniform argument or be part of some movement, so I don't get it.

Maybe this is all a bit too hard for you to understand and you should sit these threads out, then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

I’m talking about our current class. 3 kids are 7 already and it’s February. This is a Sep 1 cutoff public school.

If these kids are 7 by February 2024 that means they were 5 by February 2022. You’re telling me THREE kids were redshirted so they would start K at age 6.5 going on 7? That seems crazy to me for even 1 kid let alone 3. What is going on in this class?

The oldest kid in my K kid’s class has a June 2017 birthday and will turn 7 the last week of school. He also has SNs so it was deliberate to hold him (I know the mom and it makes sense the family didn’t start him on time). I always thought June redshirting was the absolute limit. Normally it’s July/Aug kids who need just a little longer to mature. And usually boys.

I have an August bday (graduated HS at 17) and as a girl was fine being younger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

I’m talking about our current class. 3 kids are 7 already and it’s February. This is a Sep 1 cutoff public school.

If these kids are 7 by February 2024 that means they were 5 by February 2022. You’re telling me THREE kids were redshirted so they would start K at age 6.5 going on 7? That seems crazy to me for even 1 kid let alone 3. What is going on in this class?

The oldest kid in my K kid’s class has a June 2017 birthday and will turn 7 the last week of school. He also has SNs so it was deliberate to hold him (I know the mom and it makes sense the family didn’t start him on time). I always thought June redshirting was the absolute limit. Normally it’s July/Aug kids who need just a little longer to mature. And usually boys.

I have an August bday (graduated HS at 17) and as a girl was fine being younger.

That's great that's your experience, but it's not been mine (I'm not PP you are quoting). MOST redshirts are June/July/August, but I know of plenty of spring redshirts across multiple grades. I have heard people ask if they should redshirt January/February kids, which is really taking it too far. My late July girl was sent on time and she's doing just fine, so I just think it's odd to have such little faith in your kid's abilities that they need to be 18 months older than the youngest kid in the class.

[Anonymous]

Schools can’t have it both ways either - in one breath they say that there’s no need for a kid to start early or skip a grade because they can differentiate just fine, and in the next they say you can start as late as you want if you aren’t “ready”
Either they can differentiate for kids within a 12 month birth range, or they should base class placement on something other than age.

What Id love to see is a small window (2 weeks on either side? Maybe a month?) when parents have discretion either way.
After that, you don’t have to send your kid, but when your April birthday kid shows up, they’ll be placed into the age appropriate grade. So redshirting basically means skipping K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools can’t have it both ways either - in one breath they say that there’s no need for a kid to start early or skip a grade because they can differentiate just fine, and in the next they say you can start as late as you want if you aren’t “ready”
Either they can differentiate for kids within a 12 month birth range, or they should base class placement on something other than age.

What Id love to see is a small window (2 weeks on either side? Maybe a month?) when parents have discretion either way.
After that, you don’t have to send your kid, but when your April birthday kid shows up, they’ll be placed into the age appropriate grade. So redshirting basically means skipping K.

Okay, go talk to your school board. Bring all the hard evidence you have as to why your proposal is reasonable and evidence-based. “Because I personally don’t like it and consider my opinion the most important” while stomping your feet is generally not persuasive but you can try that tactic if you’d like.

[Anonymous]

Just because kids are older doesn’t mean they were redshirted. They could’ve been held back if your school has pre-k or could be repeating K. There are a few kids that repeated K at my kids school, I noticed when we were looking at my older daughters yearbooks.
Retention can happen at any grade also. My 3rd grade niece in TN has several kids in her grade who failed the TCAP and had to repeat 3rd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

+1 this is something else going on, if they’re 7 at this point in the year, in kindergarten

Makes even less sense that the school would put all of these kids in a single class instead of spacing them out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’ll have to reach out to your school board. A redshirted spring/summer birthday would be turning six before K not 7.

+1 this is something else going on, if they’re 7 at this point in the year, in kindergarten

Makes even less sense that the school would put all of these kids in a single class instead of spacing them out!

They very well could be spaced out and they just have that many old kindergartners. This happens at my kids’ school. Mine all have spring/early summer birthdays and holding them back didn’t cross our minds.

They each have many kids in their grade that are 12 -16 months older than them. They are not sn kids (which would be understandable). They are neurotypical kids whose parents are looking for an advantage. Unfortunately, it works as there is 1 “advanced” class (not dc area) in each grade and these classes are dominated by the kids who were held back to start, so of course they seem more mature and “smarter” at the end of kindergarten. There’s not a test to get in, it’s based on teacher recommendations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just enroll your kid in kindergarten already. Yes, your kid will be among the youngest and the early years of grade school will have more twists and turns, but in the long run it's better. That way, your student graduates from high school at 17 instead of 19 or 20.

Our summer birthday started college at almost 18 and will graduate with a bachelor's at 21. A lot of her redshirted peers in the same grade are already 23. They'll graduate with a bachelor's at 24/25/26. Half their 20s are already over, and now what? Grad school? They'll be almost 30 by the time they hit the workforce...

Look ahead 20 years, OP. Redshirting actually holds your kid back later.

This is….objectively not better. Also (and, again.) if they’re graduating in May at 20 - or, in the vast majority of cases, at 19…it’s not redshirting, something else is going on

That’s what you’re missing. There are now kids who have Jan/Feb birthdays with a Sep 1 cutoff held back for “the gift of time” and the kids are tough additions in the grade. In this case, they boss around the younger kids and there have been issues with teasing. It’s not ideal for the other kids.