Reading in county third grade classrooms is a three-alarm fire going unanswered

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are for social learning
Tutors and home is for academics

How come private schools can teach more effectively than public schools when it comes to K-3?

Will mcps please hire a consultant to propose changes to the curriculum that will allow public schools to challenge and equip students the way catholic schools do?

Note: catholic schools arguably have far less funding and less trained teachers, yet students quickly learn to read, spell, understand grammar, write in cursive, etc. Heck, they even learn a foreign language! Class sizes at area catholic schools skyrocketed during the pandemic, so they know how to handle big classes. And ICYMI: bipoc families are scrambling to get into area privates as the mass exodus from mcps continues.

Don’t say “Catholic schools can expel troublemakers!”

We are talking about K-3, not middle school or MS13 high school.

I went to Catholic school in the 70s/80s…before adhd and medicated kids were a thing. We had a smattering of kids who definitely had behavior issues. Nonetheless, everyone learned.

Heck, at this point I’d support uniforms, desks in rows, and classrooms grouped by ability. Worth a shot, no? Pilot an old school curriculum and see what happens. Be sure to incorporate grammar (we had spelling workbooks that incorporated vocabulary and grammar). I bet the kids will outpace their counterparts.

Privates aren't 35%+ ESM students with the addition of students with behavioral issues. They won't even admit kids with behavioral issues. These situations are not comparable.

So you are saying the ESM students are negatively impacting everyone else?

Then shouldn’t those kids be in a different class?

We have these things called laws, written by politicians, assuming idyllic conditions. Not to mention research. These things find and suggest that EML students do best and acquire language faster when immersed in regular classrooms with the language. These things also indicate that special education students should be in the least restrictive classroom and are entitled to a full range of services in order to allow for access the curriculum and class.

Now, most teachers nor people have any problem with the above ideals, however each does require extra time, funds, and training, to make work properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are for social learning
Tutors and home is for academics

How come private schools can teach more effectively than public schools when it comes to K-3?

Will mcps please hire a consultant to propose changes to the curriculum that will allow public schools to challenge and equip students the way catholic schools do?

Note: catholic schools arguably have far less funding and less trained teachers, yet students quickly learn to read, spell, understand grammar, write in cursive, etc. Heck, they even learn a foreign language! Class sizes at area catholic schools skyrocketed during the pandemic, so they know how to handle big classes. And ICYMI: bipoc families are scrambling to get into area privates as the mass exodus from mcps continues.

Don’t say “Catholic schools can expel troublemakers!”

We are talking about K-3, not middle school or MS13 high school.

I went to Catholic school in the 70s/80s…before adhd and medicated kids were a thing. We had a smattering of kids who definitely had behavior issues. Nonetheless, everyone learned.

Heck, at this point I’d support uniforms, desks in rows, and classrooms grouped by ability. Worth a shot, no? Pilot an old school curriculum and see what happens. Be sure to incorporate grammar (we had spelling workbooks that incorporated vocabulary and grammar). I bet the kids will outpace their counterparts.

Privates aren't 35%+ ESM students with the addition of students with behavioral issues. They won't even admit kids with behavioral issues. These situations are not comparable.

So you are saying the ESM students are negatively impacting everyone else?

Then shouldn’t those kids be in a different class?

We have these things called laws, written by politicians, assuming idyllic conditions. Not to mention research. These things find and suggest that EML students do best and acquire language faster when immersed in regular classrooms with the language. These things also indicate that special education students should be in the least restrictive classroom and are entitled to a full range of services in order to allow for access the curriculum and class.

Now, most teachers nor people have any problem with the above ideals, however each does require extra time, funds, and training, to make work properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are for social learning
Tutors and home is for academics

How come private schools can teach more effectively than public schools when it comes to K-3?

Will mcps please hire a consultant to propose changes to the curriculum that will allow public schools to challenge and equip students the way catholic schools do?

Note: catholic schools arguably have far less funding and less trained teachers, yet students quickly learn to read, spell, understand grammar, write in cursive, etc. Heck, they even learn a foreign language! Class sizes at area catholic schools skyrocketed during the pandemic, so they know how to handle big classes. And ICYMI: bipoc families are scrambling to get into area privates as the mass exodus from mcps continues.

Don’t say “Catholic schools can expel troublemakers!”

We are talking about K-3, not middle school or MS13 high school.

I went to Catholic school in the 70s/80s…before adhd and medicated kids were a thing. We had a smattering of kids who definitely had behavior issues. Nonetheless, everyone learned.

Heck, at this point I’d support uniforms, desks in rows, and classrooms grouped by ability. Worth a shot, no? Pilot an old school curriculum and see what happens. Be sure to incorporate grammar (we had spelling workbooks that incorporated vocabulary and grammar). I bet the kids will outpace their counterparts.

Privates aren't 35%+ ESM students with the addition of students with behavioral issues. They won't even admit kids with behavioral issues. These situations are not comparable.

So you are saying the ESM students are negatively impacting everyone else?

Then shouldn’t those kids be in a different class?

We have these things called laws, written by politicians, assuming idyllic conditions. Not to mention research. These things find and suggest that EML students do best and acquire language faster when immersed in regular classrooms with the language. These things also indicate that special education students should be in the least restrictive classroom and are entitled to a full range of services in order to allow for access the curriculum and class.

Now, most teachers nor people have any problem with the above ideals, however each does require extra time, funds, and training, to make work properly.

You quoted a bit related to ESM…not ESL.

Different kids, different issues…right?

ICYMI: catholic schools in the inner city (think: Baltimore, South Side of Chicago, Compton, etc.) are largely catering to…wait for it…Latinos!!! They can somehow navigate the whole bilingual thing fairly well.)

But we are talking about ESM…different issues.

Maybe mcps needs to find a better solution *if* those kids are the reason why so many 3rd graders can’t read.

I’m not convinced a few kids with extreme emotional issues and behavioral outbursts are the reason why so many third graders can’t read. Another poster suggested it as the reason why even poorly resourced Catholic schools churn out better educated kids than mcps…arguably one of the best resourced districts on the planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're in DCPS and I don't understand how this is STILL happening in MCPS. We've been pleasantly surprised to see how well DCPS has course corrected regarding reading and our own experience has been phenomenal -- all evidence-based, focus on phonics, no Lucy Caulkins nonsense at all.

We're contemplating a move to MoCo for several reasons, including schools (in a bad HS triangle in DC) and this is giving me pause.

My second grader in MCPS has consistently been taught phonics in school since the beginning, definitely more than my current fourth grader received (I remember sight word books and “look at the pictures for clues” during the zoom school days). I don’t know where the current third graders fall. Was there a change to the MCPS curriculum with more phonics starting with the kids who are now second graders?

RGR was implemented at most schools in the 2022/2023 school year. I also have a second grader and it was a huge shift between kindergarten and 1st grade. In kindergarten they were bringing home lists of sight words to memorize and being taught cueing, which I could tell was not really working for DC. I was relieved when they actually started learning phonics in 1st grade.

So my understanding is that current 3rd graders would have gotten RGR only last year.

MCPS also has implemented Science of Reading across all ES, has Dibels for K-2, and has an RFP out for a new ES ELA curriculum. There is reading specialist in all ES.

The above said, I’m always amazed that parents don’t think they need to be heavily involved with teaching their kids to read.

There's a new RFP? They actually going to make a selection this time?

IMO parental involvement should be in a supporting role- e.g., trained instructors should introduce the phonics skills and parents help their kids practice at home. For too long terrible methods were being used in the classroom and really hard to try to get your kids to sound out the words when they are being taught at school to look at the picture and guess. Ask me how I know.

Parents should be in the drivers seat when teaching kids the Alphabet, basic numbers, and how to read. Just like they should be in the drivers seat in teaching basic life skills and manners. I’m tired of folks being like it’s really hard to do this or that because of school. Parenting is work. No one has ever said it should be easy.

Do I think that schools should have been using Phonics instruction all along, Yes. But the fact they weren’t in no way stopped me from doing what was needed for my children to read. If folks want to farm out the above responsibilities, fine that’s their prerogative. But IMO that in no way removes the accountability from parents.

This is hilarious. Schools have removed so much from ES to focus on math and reading. But now you're saying it's the parents responsibility to teach thir kids to read? Has this memo been passed on to parents who don't speak English as a first language?

I completely do not rely on ES to teach my child math or reading. They just don't have time anymore. All their efforts go to supporting a small group of students who struggle.

Exactly- only struggling students get a good education anymore. I do think this is a shock to parents who went to school decades ago. My own parents really didn’t have to do anything unless we asked them for help on a project.

Hmmm, my own parents were very involved in my education. But my mom SAH and had time to help us. Now kids are at aftercare or with a sitter until 5 or 6pm and of course they're tired and there is no time to put in the extra work. And on weekends they are overscheduled with sports and activities.

+1. My parents also were involved. Reviewed homework, quizzed me before spelling test, proofread book reports, etc. Neither of them was a SAHP. Guess it depends on what people want to prioritize.

I agree with the over scheduling of kids in sports and activities.

DP- my parents definitely helped me with this sort of stuff too. But I do think the things listed here like quizzing for spelling tests are a bit different than teaching a kid to read.

Unless your kid has a learning disability, which 85% of kids do not, it’s not that hard to teach a kid to read. Particularly now. Watch some Sesame Street, download an app, practice the phonics along with reading every night.

Good god, no more apps. They get enough of that in school.

I do wish the PSA about having to teach your kids at home had been more loudly stated when my kiddo was in kindergarten. I learned to read in school as did my siblings. My parents read to us and had us read to them but did not have to teach us. I had no idea how much the approaches had changed. I bought the schtick for a while that my kid was fine and would pick it up by following balanced literacy. They didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're in DCPS and I don't understand how this is STILL happening in MCPS. We've been pleasantly surprised to see how well DCPS has course corrected regarding reading and our own experience has been phenomenal -- all evidence-based, focus on phonics, no Lucy Caulkins nonsense at all.

We're contemplating a move to MoCo for several reasons, including schools (in a bad HS triangle in DC) and this is giving me pause.

My second grader in MCPS has consistently been taught phonics in school since the beginning, definitely more than my current fourth grader received (I remember sight word books and “look at the pictures for clues” during the zoom school days). I don’t know where the current third graders fall. Was there a change to the MCPS curriculum with more phonics starting with the kids who are now second graders?

RGR was implemented at most schools in the 2022/2023 school year. I also have a second grader and it was a huge shift between kindergarten and 1st grade. In kindergarten they were bringing home lists of sight words to memorize and being taught cueing, which I could tell was not really working for DC. I was relieved when they actually started learning phonics in 1st grade.

So my understanding is that current 3rd graders would have gotten RGR only last year.

MCPS also has implemented Science of Reading across all ES, has Dibels for K-2, and has an RFP out for a new ES ELA curriculum. There is reading specialist in all ES.

The above said, I’m always amazed that parents don’t think they need to be heavily involved with teaching their kids to read.

There's a new RFP? They actually going to make a selection this time?

IMO parental involvement should be in a supporting role- e.g., trained instructors should introduce the phonics skills and parents help their kids practice at home. For too long terrible methods were being used in the classroom and really hard to try to get your kids to sound out the words when they are being taught at school to look at the picture and guess. Ask me how I know.

Parents should be in the drivers seat when teaching kids the Alphabet, basic numbers, and how to read. Just like they should be in the drivers seat in teaching basic life skills and manners. I’m tired of folks being like it’s really hard to do this or that because of school. Parenting is work. No one has ever said it should be easy.

Do I think that schools should have been using Phonics instruction all along, Yes. But the fact they weren’t in no way stopped me from doing what was needed for my children to read. If folks want to farm out the above responsibilities, fine that’s their prerogative. But IMO that in no way removes the accountability from parents.

This is hilarious. Schools have removed so much from ES to focus on math and reading. But now you're saying it's the parents responsibility to teach thir kids to read? Has this memo been passed on to parents who don't speak English as a first language?

I completely do not rely on ES to teach my child math or reading. They just don't have time anymore. All their efforts go to supporting a small group of students who struggle.

Exactly- only struggling students get a good education anymore. I do think this is a shock to parents who went to school decades ago. My own parents really didn’t have to do anything unless we asked them for help on a project.

Hmmm, my own parents were very involved in my education. But my mom SAH and had time to help us. Now kids are at aftercare or with a sitter until 5 or 6pm and of course they're tired and there is no time to put in the extra work. And on weekends they are overscheduled with sports and activities.

+1. My parents also were involved. Reviewed homework, quizzed me before spelling test, proofread book reports, etc. Neither of them was a SAHP. Guess it depends on what people want to prioritize.

I agree with the over scheduling of kids in sports and activities.

My parents did none of that and we also didn’t do “activities.” As a result my expectation was that our kid would take responsibility for his own work and….he did. It’s saner for all of us.

So because your parents didn’t do their job, you won’t either. Got it. Super idea of you to have children!

Not PP, I view it as one of my jobs as a parent to teach them independence and responsibility. Not helicopter over their homework to make sure they never get a wrong answer.

It's not helicopter parenting to encourage reading in the home and help facilitate that. I guess critical thinking is difficult for you.

On the contrary- if my DS does not complete their 20 minutes assigned reading every night, he faces the consequences for it. I don't need to nag him, he knows it is expected of him and does it. That's totally fine that your kids need a lot of help and reminders though, everyone is different!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're in DCPS and I don't understand how this is STILL happening in MCPS. We've been pleasantly surprised to see how well DCPS has course corrected regarding reading and our own experience has been phenomenal -- all evidence-based, focus on phonics, no Lucy Caulkins nonsense at all.

We're contemplating a move to MoCo for several reasons, including schools (in a bad HS triangle in DC) and this is giving me pause.

My second grader in MCPS has consistently been taught phonics in school since the beginning, definitely more than my current fourth grader received (I remember sight word books and “look at the pictures for clues” during the zoom school days). I don’t know where the current third graders fall. Was there a change to the MCPS curriculum with more phonics starting with the kids who are now second graders?

RGR was implemented at most schools in the 2022/2023 school year. I also have a second grader and it was a huge shift between kindergarten and 1st grade. In kindergarten they were bringing home lists of sight words to memorize and being taught cueing, which I could tell was not really working for DC. I was relieved when they actually started learning phonics in 1st grade.

So my understanding is that current 3rd graders would have gotten RGR only last year.

MCPS also has implemented Science of Reading across all ES, has Dibels for K-2, and has an RFP out for a new ES ELA curriculum. There is reading specialist in all ES.

The above said, I’m always amazed that parents don’t think they need to be heavily involved with teaching their kids to read.

There's a new RFP? They actually going to make a selection this time?

IMO parental involvement should be in a supporting role- e.g., trained instructors should introduce the phonics skills and parents help their kids practice at home. For too long terrible methods were being used in the classroom and really hard to try to get your kids to sound out the words when they are being taught at school to look at the picture and guess. Ask me how I know.

Parents should be in the drivers seat when teaching kids the Alphabet, basic numbers, and how to read. Just like they should be in the drivers seat in teaching basic life skills and manners. I’m tired of folks being like it’s really hard to do this or that because of school. Parenting is work. No one has ever said it should be easy.

Do I think that schools should have been using Phonics instruction all along, Yes. But the fact they weren’t in no way stopped me from doing what was needed for my children to read. If folks want to farm out the above responsibilities, fine that’s their prerogative. But IMO that in no way removes the accountability from parents.

This is hilarious. Schools have removed so much from ES to focus on math and reading. But now you're saying it's the parents responsibility to teach thir kids to read? Has this memo been passed on to parents who don't speak English as a first language?

I completely do not rely on ES to teach my child math or reading. They just don't have time anymore. All their efforts go to supporting a small group of students who struggle.

Exactly- only struggling students get a good education anymore. I do think this is a shock to parents who went to school decades ago. My own parents really didn’t have to do anything unless we asked them for help on a project.

Hmmm, my own parents were very involved in my education. But my mom SAH and had time to help us. Now kids are at aftercare or with a sitter until 5 or 6pm and of course they're tired and there is no time to put in the extra work. And on weekends they are overscheduled with sports and activities.

+1. My parents also were involved. Reviewed homework, quizzed me before spelling test, proofread book reports, etc. Neither of them was a SAHP. Guess it depends on what people want to prioritize.

I agree with the over scheduling of kids in sports and activities.

DP- my parents definitely helped me with this sort of stuff too. But I do think the things listed here like quizzing for spelling tests are a bit different than teaching a kid to read.

Unless your kid has a learning disability, which 85% of kids do not, it’s not that hard to teach a kid to read. Particularly now. Watch some Sesame Street, download an app, practice the phonics along with reading every night.

Good god, no more apps. They get enough of that in school.

I do wish the PSA about having to teach your kids at home had been more loudly stated when my kiddo was in kindergarten. I learned to read in school as did my siblings. My parents read to us and had us read to them but did not have to teach us. I had no idea how much the approaches had changed. I bought the schtick for a while that my kid was fine and would pick it up by following balanced literacy. They didn't.

I agree. They should tell parents that they need to be teaching the kids. I followed a phonics program with my kids and they easily got it. They had trouble understanding the school methods even when they knew how to read.

[Anonymous]

Remember when mcps ditched phonics for a while?

Remember when they ditched spelling for a while?

Remember when they tossed out grammar completely and said not to worry because kids would magically absorb it through reading and busy work with their table mates as they entertained themselves while the teacher raced through a half dozen reading groups ranging from super smart kids reading several grades ahead to omg these kids can’t even spell their own name?!?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're in DCPS and I don't understand how this is STILL happening in MCPS. We've been pleasantly surprised to see how well DCPS has course corrected regarding reading and our own experience has been phenomenal -- all evidence-based, focus on phonics, no Lucy Caulkins nonsense at all.

We're contemplating a move to MoCo for several reasons, including schools (in a bad HS triangle in DC) and this is giving me pause.

My second grader in MCPS has consistently been taught phonics in school since the beginning, definitely more than my current fourth grader received (I remember sight word books and “look at the pictures for clues” during the zoom school days). I don’t know where the current third graders fall. Was there a change to the MCPS curriculum with more phonics starting with the kids who are now second graders?

RGR was implemented at most schools in the 2022/2023 school year. I also have a second grader and it was a huge shift between kindergarten and 1st grade. In kindergarten they were bringing home lists of sight words to memorize and being taught cueing, which I could tell was not really working for DC. I was relieved when they actually started learning phonics in 1st grade.

So my understanding is that current 3rd graders would have gotten RGR only last year.

MCPS also has implemented Science of Reading across all ES, has Dibels for K-2, and has an RFP out for a new ES ELA curriculum. There is reading specialist in all ES.

The above said, I’m always amazed that parents don’t think they need to be heavily involved with teaching their kids to read.

There's a new RFP? They actually going to make a selection this time?

IMO parental involvement should be in a supporting role- e.g., trained instructors should introduce the phonics skills and parents help their kids practice at home. For too long terrible methods were being used in the classroom and really hard to try to get your kids to sound out the words when they are being taught at school to look at the picture and guess. Ask me how I know.

Parents should be in the drivers seat when teaching kids the Alphabet, basic numbers, and how to read. Just like they should be in the drivers seat in teaching basic life skills and manners. I’m tired of folks being like it’s really hard to do this or that because of school. Parenting is work. No one has ever said it should be easy.

Do I think that schools should have been using Phonics instruction all along, Yes. But the fact they weren’t in no way stopped me from doing what was needed for my children to read. If folks want to farm out the above responsibilities, fine that’s their prerogative. But IMO that in no way removes the accountability from parents.

This is hilarious. Schools have removed so much from ES to focus on math and reading. But now you're saying it's the parents responsibility to teach thir kids to read? Has this memo been passed on to parents who don't speak English as a first language?

I completely do not rely on ES to teach my child math or reading. They just don't have time anymore. All their efforts go to supporting a small group of students who struggle.

Exactly- only struggling students get a good education anymore. I do think this is a shock to parents who went to school decades ago. My own parents really didn’t have to do anything unless we asked them for help on a project.

Hmmm, my own parents were very involved in my education. But my mom SAH and had time to help us. Now kids are at aftercare or with a sitter until 5 or 6pm and of course they're tired and there is no time to put in the extra work. And on weekends they are overscheduled with sports and activities.

+1. My parents also were involved. Reviewed homework, quizzed me before spelling test, proofread book reports, etc. Neither of them was a SAHP. Guess it depends on what people want to prioritize.

I agree with the over scheduling of kids in sports and activities.

DP- my parents definitely helped me with this sort of stuff too. But I do think the things listed here like quizzing for spelling tests are a bit different than teaching a kid to read.

Unless your kid has a learning disability, which 85% of kids do not, it’s not that hard to teach a kid to read. Particularly now. Watch some Sesame Street, download an app, practice the phonics along with reading every night.

Good god, no more apps. They get enough of that in school.

I do wish the PSA about having to teach your kids at home had been more loudly stated when my kiddo was in kindergarten. I learned to read in school as did my siblings. My parents read to us and had us read to them but did not have to teach us. I had no idea how much the approaches had changed. I bought the schtick for a while that my kid was fine and would pick it up by following balanced literacy. They didn't.

I agree. They should tell parents that they need to be teaching the kids. I followed a phonics program with my kids and they easily got it. They had trouble understanding the school methods even when they knew how to read.

Because the school methods are asinine.

No need to correct spelling. They’ll eventually absorb it elsewhere through our fabulously expensive silver bullet reading curriculum. Never mind the fact that the content is boring and skews too technical (teach for the test!).

Literature. Good stories. Make it fun and interesting.

Admit that Benchmark was a big failure. Move on quickly and invest in catching up.

It’s shameful for mcps to churn out subpar students. Shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Remember when mcps ditched phonics for a while?

Remember when they ditched spelling for a while?

Remember when they tossed out grammar completely and said not to worry because kids would magically absorb it through reading and busy work with their table mates as they entertained themselves while the teacher raced through a half dozen reading groups ranging from super smart kids reading several grades ahead to omg these kids can’t even spell their own name?!?!

And this is exactly why we’re saying basic skills should be on parents or they should be heavily involved and invested.

What do we expect teachers to do in K when 1/4 of the kids are reading and writing on par with mid 1st grade or beginning 2nd, 1/4 are just cracking reading, 1/4 only know some of the alphabet and can’t spell their name, and the final 1/4 don’t speak the language. And within all of these fourths there is still going to be a range of skills and abilities.

To top it off parents are ridiculous. If kids got grouped in class by ability folks would be screaming because their kid wasn’t in the highest class and getting the same assignments or projects. But guess what little Johnny can’t read and Amari can. And if we had the kids or teachers switch around there would be screams about classroom community, and knowing the teacher, etc etc.

It’s a no win situation. Which is why school districts and school buildings need to start setting boundaries, telling parents to pound sand, and create a model that actually works for kids. It’s exactly what private schools do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're in DCPS and I don't understand how this is STILL happening in MCPS. We've been pleasantly surprised to see how well DCPS has course corrected regarding reading and our own experience has been phenomenal -- all evidence-based, focus on phonics, no Lucy Caulkins nonsense at all.

We're contemplating a move to MoCo for several reasons, including schools (in a bad HS triangle in DC) and this is giving me pause.

My second grader in MCPS has consistently been taught phonics in school since the beginning, definitely more than my current fourth grader received (I remember sight word books and “look at the pictures for clues” during the zoom school days). I don’t know where the current third graders fall. Was there a change to the MCPS curriculum with more phonics starting with the kids who are now second graders?

RGR was implemented at most schools in the 2022/2023 school year. I also have a second grader and it was a huge shift between kindergarten and 1st grade. In kindergarten they were bringing home lists of sight words to memorize and being taught cueing, which I could tell was not really working for DC. I was relieved when they actually started learning phonics in 1st grade.

So my understanding is that current 3rd graders would have gotten RGR only last year.

MCPS also has implemented Science of Reading across all ES, has Dibels for K-2, and has an RFP out for a new ES ELA curriculum. There is reading specialist in all ES.

The above said, I’m always amazed that parents don’t think they need to be heavily involved with teaching their kids to read.

There's a new RFP? They actually going to make a selection this time?

IMO parental involvement should be in a supporting role- e.g., trained instructors should introduce the phonics skills and parents help their kids practice at home. For too long terrible methods were being used in the classroom and really hard to try to get your kids to sound out the words when they are being taught at school to look at the picture and guess. Ask me how I know.

Parents should be in the drivers seat when teaching kids the Alphabet, basic numbers, and how to read. Just like they should be in the drivers seat in teaching basic life skills and manners. I’m tired of folks being like it’s really hard to do this or that because of school. Parenting is work. No one has ever said it should be easy.

Do I think that schools should have been using Phonics instruction all along, Yes. But the fact they weren’t in no way stopped me from doing what was needed for my children to read. If folks want to farm out the above responsibilities, fine that’s their prerogative. But IMO that in no way removes the accountability from parents.

This is hilarious. Schools have removed so much from ES to focus on math and reading. But now you're saying it's the parents responsibility to teach thir kids to read? Has this memo been passed on to parents who don't speak English as a first language?

I completely do not rely on ES to teach my child math or reading. They just don't have time anymore. All their efforts go to supporting a small group of students who struggle.

Exactly- only struggling students get a good education anymore. I do think this is a shock to parents who went to school decades ago. My own parents really didn’t have to do anything unless we asked them for help on a project.

Hmmm, my own parents were very involved in my education. But my mom SAH and had time to help us. Now kids are at aftercare or with a sitter until 5 or 6pm and of course they're tired and there is no time to put in the extra work. And on weekends they are overscheduled with sports and activities.

+1. My parents also were involved. Reviewed homework, quizzed me before spelling test, proofread book reports, etc. Neither of them was a SAHP. Guess it depends on what people want to prioritize.

I agree with the over scheduling of kids in sports and activities.

DP- my parents definitely helped me with this sort of stuff too. But I do think the things listed here like quizzing for spelling tests are a bit different than teaching a kid to read.

Unless your kid has a learning disability, which 85% of kids do not, it’s not that hard to teach a kid to read. Particularly now. Watch some Sesame Street, download an app, practice the phonics along with reading every night.

Good god, no more apps. They get enough of that in school.

I do wish the PSA about having to teach your kids at home had been more loudly stated when my kiddo was in kindergarten. I learned to read in school as did my siblings. My parents read to us and had us read to them but did not have to teach us. I had no idea how much the approaches had changed. I bought the schtick for a while that my kid was fine and would pick it up by following balanced literacy. They didn't.

I agree. They should tell parents that they need to be teaching the kids. I followed a phonics program with my kids and they easily got it. They had trouble understanding the school methods even when they knew how to read.

Because the school methods are asinine.

No need to correct spelling. They’ll eventually absorb it elsewhere through our fabulously expensive silver bullet reading curriculum. Never mind the fact that the content is boring and skews too technical (teach for the test!).

Literature. Good stories. Make it fun and interesting.

Admit that Benchmark was a big failure. Move on quickly and invest in catching up.

It’s shameful for mcps to churn out subpar students. Shameful.

As a parent I’m tired of this line. School is about learning how to learn and attaining certain skills. If they can make it fun, great, but that’s not the primary goal or objective. At school let’s get down to the business of education. If that means it’s technical, fine. It would probably take a lot less time and energy from teachers if they could just focus on what is needed and not all the fluff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are for social learning
Tutors and home is for academics

How come private schools can teach more effectively than public schools when it comes to K-3?

Will mcps please hire a consultant to propose changes to the curriculum that will allow public schools to challenge and equip students the way catholic schools do?

Note: catholic schools arguably have far less funding and less trained teachers, yet students quickly learn to read, spell, understand grammar, write in cursive, etc. Heck, they even learn a foreign language! Class sizes at area catholic schools skyrocketed during the pandemic, so they know how to handle big classes. And ICYMI: bipoc families are scrambling to get into area privates as the mass exodus from mcps continues.

Don’t say “Catholic schools can expel troublemakers!”

We are talking about K-3, not middle school or MS13 high school.

I went to Catholic school in the 70s/80s…before adhd and medicated kids were a thing. We had a smattering of kids who definitely had behavior issues. Nonetheless, everyone learned.

Heck, at this point I’d support uniforms, desks in rows, and classrooms grouped by ability. Worth a shot, no? Pilot an old school curriculum and see what happens. Be sure to incorporate grammar (we had spelling workbooks that incorporated vocabulary and grammar). I bet the kids will outpace their counterparts.

Privates aren't 35%+ ESM students with the addition of students with behavioral issues. They won't even admit kids with behavioral issues. These situations are not comparable.

So you are saying the ESM students are negatively impacting everyone else?

Then shouldn’t those kids be in a different class?

We have these things called laws, written by politicians, assuming idyllic conditions. Not to mention research. These things find and suggest that EML students do best and acquire language faster when immersed in regular classrooms with the language. These things also indicate that special education students should be in the least restrictive classroom and are entitled to a full range of services in order to allow for access the curriculum and class.

Now, most teachers nor people have any problem with the above ideals, however each does require extra time, funds, and training, to make work properly.

You quoted a bit related to ESM…not ESL.

Different kids, different issues…right?

ICYMI: catholic schools in the inner city (think: Baltimore, South Side of Chicago, Compton, etc.) are largely catering to…wait for it…Latinos!!! They can somehow navigate the whole bilingual thing fairly well.)

But we are talking about ESM…different issues.

Maybe mcps needs to find a better solution *if* those kids are the reason why so many 3rd graders can’t read.

I’m not convinced a few kids with extreme emotional issues and behavioral outbursts are the reason why so many third graders can’t read. Another poster suggested it as the reason why even poorly resourced Catholic schools churn out better educated kids than mcps…arguably one of the best resourced districts on the planet.

DP.. Those inner city catholic schools can still pick and choose whom they decide to educate. The parents who put their kids in those schools obviously care about their kids' education. That's where it starts. The parents. Parents do not have to know how to read themselves, but if they care about their kid's education, they will make sure that the kids have the support at home needed to do well in school.

My parents do not speak any English. So, they did not help with HW at all. But, they wanted me to do well in school, and as I got older, I saw education as a way out poverty.

I have always been of the opinion that parents and teachers are partners in educating the children. Like I said, the parent doesn't need to be teaching the kids at home, but they do need to provide support. And in MCPS, there are so many programs for ELL students. It's a matter of priorities and having the time.

Having stated that, we read to our kids every night when they were very little. We made reading a priority. Lots of trips to the library, and used bookstores. Both my kids were reading before Ker, and yea, we used phonics. Stupid to not use a combination of phonics and context clues.

We didn't push them; it just happened because they were surrounded by books. We limited screen time when they were very little. I think that helped.

My DS#1 is now 18 and said that limiting screen time before the age of 8 is crucial for getting kids to learn to love reading. He said he was thankful that we did that, but we were more lax with DC#2, which I regret, but it's harder to limit the younger when the older one is watching tv.

[Anonymous]

Catholic schools have a much better behavioral expectations and consequences. My son was written up and got detention for lower level behaviors. So were his classmates. This translated into not many higher level behaviors. Not a bad idea. It works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remember when mcps ditched phonics for a while?

Remember when they ditched spelling for a while?

Remember when they tossed out grammar completely and said not to worry because kids would magically absorb it through reading and busy work with their table mates as they entertained themselves while the teacher raced through a half dozen reading groups ranging from super smart kids reading several grades ahead to omg these kids can’t even spell their own name?!?!

And this is exactly why we’re saying basic skills should be on parents or they should be heavily involved and invested.

What do we expect teachers to do in K when 1/4 of the kids are reading and writing on par with mid 1st grade or beginning 2nd, 1/4 are just cracking reading, 1/4 only know some of the alphabet and can’t spell their name, and the final 1/4 don’t speak the language. And within all of these fourths there is still going to be a range of skills and abilities.

To top it off parents are ridiculous. If kids got grouped in class by ability folks would be screaming because their kid wasn’t in the highest class and getting the same assignments or projects. But guess what little Johnny can’t read and Amari can. And if we had the kids or teachers switch around there would be screams about classroom community, and knowing the teacher, etc etc.

It’s a no win situation. Which is why school districts and school buildings need to start setting boundaries, telling parents to pound sand, and create a model that actually works for kids. It’s exactly what private schools do.

As a parent, I'm willing to put in the work. What was overwhelming to me was having to figure out WHAT work needed to be put in- what the school was/wasn't teaching, what the gaps were, what resources were needed to fill those gaps. I am not an educator and have no background in education. Surely there is a better way than expecting parents to embark on an endless Google chase to figure it out. Why can't we expect the schools to select appropriate curricula, lay the foundation, and equip parents with some resources to reinforce at home?

(FWIW, I actually think MCPS does a decent job with ES math- there are Eureka workbooks to complete assignments at home and parent tip sheets)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS continues to get it wrong on early reading, even when the evidence-based methods to teach reading have been clear for many years.

https://moco360.media/2024/01/24/opinion-reading-in-county-third-grade-classrooms-is-a-three-alarm-fire-going-unanswered/

MCPS has been getting it wrong in reading for a long time, but to be fair, 3rd graders tested in 2022-23 are at a distinct disadvantage compared those in future years. MCPS did not re-introduce phonics until last year and only for years K-2. I don't know why there was not some phonics remediation for the older readers who are testing below grade level however.

For those posters who are saying, parents should have been teaching the phonics at home, yes obviously we know that now! But we were being told that isn't how it's taught anymore. And not just in MCPS, my poor nephew was put in that awful Reading Recovery program. Was all such a struggle and my sister eventually pulled him and found an OG teacher but it turned him off reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We're in DCPS and I don't understand how this is STILL happening in MCPS. We've been pleasantly surprised to see how well DCPS has course corrected regarding reading and our own experience has been phenomenal -- all evidence-based, focus on phonics, no Lucy Caulkins nonsense at all.

We're contemplating a move to MoCo for several reasons, including schools (in a bad HS triangle in DC) and this is giving me pause.

My second grader in MCPS has consistently been taught phonics in school since the beginning, definitely more than my current fourth grader received (I remember sight word books and “look at the pictures for clues” during the zoom school days). I don’t know where the current third graders fall. Was there a change to the MCPS curriculum with more phonics starting with the kids who are now second graders?

RGR was implemented at most schools in the 2022/2023 school year. I also have a second grader and it was a huge shift between kindergarten and 1st grade. In kindergarten they were bringing home lists of sight words to memorize and being taught cueing, which I could tell was not really working for DC. I was relieved when they actually started learning phonics in 1st grade.

So my understanding is that current 3rd graders would have gotten RGR only last year.

MCPS also has implemented Science of Reading across all ES, has Dibels for K-2, and has an RFP out for a new ES ELA curriculum. There is reading specialist in all ES.

The above said, I’m always amazed that parents don’t think they need to be heavily involved with teaching their kids to read.

There's a new RFP? They actually going to make a selection this time?

IMO parental involvement should be in a supporting role- e.g., trained instructors should introduce the phonics skills and parents help their kids practice at home. For too long terrible methods were being used in the classroom and really hard to try to get your kids to sound out the words when they are being taught at school to look at the picture and guess. Ask me how I know.

Parents should be in the drivers seat when teaching kids the Alphabet, basic numbers, and how to read. Just like they should be in the drivers seat in teaching basic life skills and manners. I’m tired of folks being like it’s really hard to do this or that because of school. Parenting is work. No one has ever said it should be easy.

Do I think that schools should have been using Phonics instruction all along, Yes. But the fact they weren’t in no way stopped me from doing what was needed for my children to read. If folks want to farm out the above responsibilities, fine that’s their prerogative. But IMO that in no way removes the accountability from parents.

This is so.....American. But I suppose it goes along with not respecting teaching as a profession.

How is this not respecting teaching? I respect teaching without thinking that every thing is the responsibility of Teachers. Or rather I understand that parents have some teaching responsibility. I don’t expect kid to potty train my kid. Sure pre-school and daycare teachers support the process but it’s on them.

Teaching is a socially crucial occupation and vocation. A profession it is not. The more professionalized and "well-trained" it has become, the worse the results have gotten. Profession implies specialized knowledge and training. This is not necessary (or even really possible) for elementary-age teachers at all. Hence the reason why home-schooling moms and nuns get better results than NEA teachers.

OMG this is an idiotic post. I dare you to get a job as a long term substitute. You can do it without a teaching certificate. You will find out how much you're missing that a certified teacher knows. Dumb, dumb post.

You're so right. Elementary school teaching is on par with engineering, medicine, law, accountancy, etc. That's why moms and nuns can just decide one day to be an engineer or a doc or a CPA and get better results than the formally trained professionals.

Man are you in for a long road if you plan on blaming everything going wrong in public schools on your teachers. You might as well blame doctors for why Americans are getting fat. Teachers are on your side here. Help them.